Talk:Dark social media

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 November 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Meemakter. Peer reviewers: Yunxin Yao, Ashleighfortunate, Jebrice, Haydenwa17, Brendanboylan123.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:48, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Recent Updates
I posted my first draft of the History section to the Draft page. Please let me know what you think (in the section below). I also tried to organize this page a bit, so please check each section for new information. I thought this section could be used for quick updates. Michaels2002 (talk) 22:17, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Hey Guys! I posted a draft with a new section about who shares. Give it a look over and tell me what you think :) J0D (talk) 04:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

I added content for the Relationship to the Dark Web section. Please review and comment below. Michaels2002 (talk) 21:38, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Hey Guys! I have finished the initial draft of my part "Desktop vs Mobile", please go ahead and read it. If you feel like there's anything else I can mention or I need to change something in there, feel free to let me know. Ysun7204 (talk) 21:01, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Article Source Discussion
Hello guys, As you know "Dark Social Media" is a relatively new concept, before we start working on the actual article, I think it would be a good idea to determine what topics we would cover in this wiki page. I found some articles that are related to Dark Social Media.
 * Dark Social: We have the whole history of the web wrong by Alexis Madrigal, I think this is the first time Dark Social come up in an article.
 * Dark Social Traffic in the Mobile App Era (link) by Alexis Madrigal, this article is a follow up written by the same author
 * Revisiting Dark Social (link) by Bob Cohn in The Atlantic, this article is another follow-up but written by another writer in the Atlantic
 * Analytics nightmare: 82 percent of mobile sharing is done through dark social (link) by Lucinda Southern from digiday.com
 * THE LIGHT AND DARK Harnessing the power of consumer connections by RadiumOne Team (link), this article is more of a promotion article for the team, but it was cited in nearly all the follow-up articles. I am not sure if it could be used as a valid source.

These articles are all magazine articles, but Rosta told me that it's ok to use them as long as they are clear about what they are saying since our topic is relatively new. I also found something that I think might be related to our topic: Invisible Web, which is all the web content that can not be indexed or searched by modern web search engine. I also found some articles that are related to this. I am not sure if it's closely related to our topic, but I think they share a common link. Below is the articles about invisible web:
 * Devine, J., & Egger-Sider, F. (2004). Beyond google: The invisible web in the academic library.Journal of Academic Librarianship, 30(4), 265–269. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.acalib.2004.04.010. (This is a more detailed information on Invisible Web).
 * Lewandowski, D., & Mayr, P. (2006). Exploring the academic invisible web. Library Hi Tech, 24(4), 529–539. https://doi.org/10.1108/07378830610715392 (This is another article about Invisible Web).
 * Lewandowski, D., & Mayr, P. (2006). Exploring the academic invisible web. Library Hi Tech, 24(4), 529–539. https://doi.org/10.1108/07378830610715392 (This is an article more focused on academic invisible web concepts)

So what do you guys think, especially what kind of information are we going to focus in this article. Ky Zheng 18:49, 11 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Ky, thanks again for gathering these articles. I read over most of the articles and I think there are four main topics:
 * Short description of what Dark Social Media is
 * History (who coined the term, how has it changed, other names for it)
 * Desktop vs Mobile
 * Impact to the Community and the Economy


 * To answer you question about Invisible Web, I'm not 100% sure either. To me, they are slightly different topics (social vs search).  We'll see what the others think.


 * I'll continue to search for more articles as well. Please let me know what you think of my categories.  Michaels2002 (talk) 12:59, 14 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Michael, the four main topics looks great. However, I feel that we probably need to change the name of the last one. I would suggest we use "impact to the economy (or online community)". The reason I want to add invisible web ::initially is that I think both dark social media and invisible web share the feature of non-linkable or referable web contents. Maybe we can add reference when writing the key features of the dark social media. Since I cannot find ::articles focused on or mentioning the relationship between these two, I don't think a dedicated section is needed. Ky Zheng 19:04, 17 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The title change is fine with me. I also agree with adding some reference to the invisible web.  So if we are agreed with these four topics, then we'll need to decide who will write each topic. (I updated the topic name above.) Michaels2002 (talk) 13:03, 19 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Ky, thanks for sharing all of these articles with us, I have read the ones related to dark social. And Michael, thank you for pointing out the main topics for dark social media.
 * I have found another article, a follow up on Ky's last article, the one by RadiumOne
 * The dark side of mobile sharing by RadiumOne Team (link)
 * It is a fairly new article published in 2016. I have realized this article is a promotion on RadiumOne's services. However, it does contain some valuable information regarding dark social media on the mobile end. Please check it out, I think it can be useful for the last two sections on the Wikipedia page.
 * Also regarding the invisible web, I suggest we talked about it in the first section. Just to mention its key features, what common ground invisible web and dark social shares, but point out the distinction between the two and make sure the reader won't confuse the two different topics. Ysun7204 (talk) 20:41, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The invisible web is more commonly referred to as the Deep Web which already has an article, however it has almost nothing to do with dark social. Simonxliu (talk) 12:14, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree that they are two different topics, but I think it's fine if we just point out the distinction in the intro. Michaels2002 (talk) 12:53, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I think that at most we should say that they shouldn't be confused together and maybe have a see also section with a link to deep web and dark web. Simonxliu (talk) 12:54, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, here is a link to Alexis Madrigal's article (link) Simonxliu (talk) 15:10, 20 October 2016 (UTC)


 * We're working with the library to try to find more sources for this page. Michaels2002 (talk) 19:42, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I talked to Dr. Farzan and she said that we can incorporate some of the dark web/invisible web information into our article. I found two other articles:
 * Rocks-Macqueen, Doug. "Digital Public Engagement through Social Media in Archaeology–How to Choose." Present Pasts 7.1 (2016) (link)
 * Jane Devine, Francine Egger-Sider, and Alexandra Rojas. "The Evolving Impact of the Invisible Web: Exploring Economic and Political Ramifications." Journal Of Web Librarianship Vol. 9, Iss. 4,2015 (link) Michaels2002 (talk) 02:51, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Guys, I have found one more source while doing my part, it was the research by Chartbeat that Alexis Madrigal mentioned in his article. Specifically, there is a part called "Potential source of dark social", which I think could be helpful for the introduction part. Here's the url, http://blog.chartbeat.com/2014/12/04/dark-social-2014/ Ysun7204 (talk) 21:05, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Layout
I started the basic layout for the page with the sections that we agreed on. I believe the "Impact to the Community and the Economy" section can be done by two people, since we have a lot of information for it. Feel free to add any comments about the layout here. Michaels2002 (talk) 19:41, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Pick Your Section
I thought this might be a good way to figure out who is writing what. Just add your name by the section you'd like to work on. If you feel there is a need for another section, be sure to add it! Michaels2002 (talk) 19:41, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Short description of what Dark Social Media is (ky zheng)
 * History (Mike S)
 * Who created it?
 * What brought about its creation?
 * Has it changed over time? Michaels2002 (talk) 15:33, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Desktop vs Mobile (Yang Sun)
 * % of dark social in Desktop vs in mobile
 * Facebook mobile app, how did it created dark social in mobile?
 * Then(2014) vs now(mid 2016) for mobile dark socialYsun7204 (talk) 02:03, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Impact to the Community and the Economy (Simon L and J0D)
 * Relationship to the Dark Web (Mike S)
 * Who Shares via Dark Social (J0D)


 * I'll write the short description, if it's ok to you guys. Ky Zheng 18:43, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Ky, that's fine with me. I also think we may need to add another section that talks about the similarities and differences to the dark web.  Thoughts?  Michaels2002 (talk) 02:51, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I can do the Desktop vs Mobile section. Ysun7204 (talk) 02:00, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It might be good to add some key points or questions under your section. This will give us more of an idea of what will be written.  Michaels2002 (talk) 15:35, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll do the community + economy section Simonxliu (talk) 02:06, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I can also do the community and economy section- it seems to be a big piece of this topic. I think The idea of similarities and differences between dark web (and its other names) is great but I am not sure I personally understand this well.   Also I met with a librarian in this general subject area and she too recommended Radium One, as well as several of the sources already found by others in the group, and looking through university database(s).  She spoke about the business database as this problem seems to do with the impact on economy. She made the point that when this topic originally came about, the idea of mobile versus desktop wasn't as big as it is now.  She focused on how people communicate, the means and media behind it and why people share the links they do.  She also mentioned searching the topic in Duck Duck Go, as this site is known for not tracking searchers.J0D (talk) 02:18, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

J0D (talk) 02:18, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * So I guess no one is working on the Relationship to the Dark Web topic? I can write something up for that if no one else is working on it.  Simonxlui and J0D will need to coordinate on who is writing what in their section. Michaels2002 (talk) 22:17, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

I had written something about this for approval from our instructor and found a source, she mentioned that the notion of Dark Web was already referenced. Simonxlui can have the entire community + economy sectionJ0D (talk) 22:29, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Notes on Short Description
I believe that pointing out to the reader to not be confused with the Dark Web or Invisible Web should be in the introduction and should be very short. Thoughts? Michaels2002 (talk) 20:57, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Notes on History
I think you did a nice job on the history, getting to the point quickly. I almost think that if you keep the last sentence (new paragraph?) that you might want to put the notion of how dark social is not to be confused with Dark or deep web, as it may make sense there, certainly this needs to be addressed in the beginning of this paper. J0D (talk) 22:33, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks J0D! I can make a small note on dark web in this section.  However, most of the details should be under the actual dark web section, I think.  Michaels2002 (talk) 22:01, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I added a small note about Dark Web in this section. I'll explain more in the Relationship to Dark Web. Michaels2002 (talk) 20:46, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The more I look at it, I believe that pointing out to the reader to not be confused with the Dark Web or Invisible Web should be in the introduction and should be very short. I'm adding a comment to that section as well. Michaels2002 (talk) 20:57, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Michael, I have found that Alex Madrigal has a wiki page, so I linked his nemae to the wiki page in your section as well. Ysun7204 (talk) 17:26, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I think the link to Alex's wiki page is important (this dark social page mentions him a lot) I also wonder if we should make a reference to the chartbeat page, as it is referenced by a couple of different people.  (NOTE ** I made this comment prior, but just caught that I didn't sign it until todayJ0D (talk) 19:09, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for catching those links! I didn't even think about them having pages. Michaels2002 (talk) 18:20, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

General questions: Are we doing something with the rest of the references in the talk page that are not refrenced in the draft (refencing them or maybe a see other references section?) even though they aren't directly used, they are still good for others that may be curious to know more.
 * I think it would be fine to include a related articles section. Michaels2002 (talk) 18:20, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Could the External Links be used for this or is it for something else? Michaels2002 (talk) 18:44, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Also, is there a deadline which we should try to get kind of a final draft (incorporate all comments)? Maybe Wednesday by noon? Are we going to try to write from one voice to make the sections mesh?)J0D (talk) 02:55, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It would be nice to have it finished on Wednesday, but it depends on everyone's schedule. We definitely need to try to make it have one consistent voice.  I would suggest we read over the entire article tomorrow evening and make sure of it. Michaels2002 (talk) 18:20, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Notes on Desktop vs Mobile
Can I change this section from "Desktop vs Mobile" to just "Mobile." Since I think that the 1st part, the introduction talks more about Dark Social on desktop, here I am mainly talking about it on mobile end, while do some comparison on both Mobile vs. Desktop. What do you guys think?Ysun7204 (talk) 20:23, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I think that the Desktop vs Mobile is the crux of why things are dark social or not (ie use their phone a lot for things like Email and text which makes for tough analytics via normal means.) I can understand the title being changed slightly but I think the title of this section is important enough to warrant both aspects and that just changing it to mobile will loose the differences. J0D (talk) 02:51, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * After think it through, I think the original title is better. Ysun7204 (talk) 04:26, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed Michaels2002 (talk) 18:20, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Good Job! I just fixed some the grammar issues that were in this section. There was a lot of mixing of past and present tenses. I believe it should be mainly in past tense, but if I'm wrong, please let me know. Also, the last paragraph with "In one of RadiumOne ’s report published in February 2016, the dark side of mobile sharing. The company stated they have found that 84% of the online traffic is coming from Dark Social channels to date." is confusing. I'm assuming the dark side of mobile sharing is the title? I'd recommend combining those two sentences together and just referencing the article. Michaels2002 (talk) 18:38, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it was supposed to be one sentence, I have changed it. Thank you for pointing it out. Ysun7204 (talk) 22:25, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Notes on Impact to the Community and the Economy
This section needs references. Also, didn't some of the articles give actual numbers for the losses caused by not having the data? I could be wrong. Michaels2002 (talk) 18:41, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Well I agree, there seems to be a lot of materials that touch on the topic. I think adding more reference definitely helps.

I had added references on my computer at home but either the edits didn't save or got overwritten and I'll have to redo them. Simonxliu (talk) 18:44, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding the references! Michaels2002 (talk) 21:45, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Notes on Relationship to the Dark Web
I added content for this section. Please let me know if my explanation of the relationships of these terms is clear. I tried to make it as simple as possible, as there is already detailed information about each term on other pages. Michaels2002 (talk) 21:37, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I think you did a nice job of teasing out the differences between these terms. That you pointed out that the deep web doesn't allow for analytics (and thus makes this similar to dark social) and that the dark web people are looking to be annoymous (also making any traffic from here dark) was good. I also appreciated that all the wikipedia sites were refrenced here and that you didn't discuss the dark web as nefarious activities. This section should be moved up in the sections I think as it is important and people that are looking for any of those other terms should know that they arrived on the wrong wikipedia article.J0D (talk) 02:46, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Notes on Who Shares via Dark Social
I like the information that was added. I would definitely change the links to the articles to actual references. Also, I meant this section to be used a discussion area on your section, you don't really need to post your section to both the draft and the talk page. Michaels2002 (talk) 20:41, 4 December 2016 (UTC) I changed this slightly (and made the references), and I think I put it in here by mistake initally- Thanks for deleting it.J0D (talk) 19:11, 7 December 2016 (UTC) I added a little more on sharing- thanks for recommending your article Michaels2002. Nice job guys, it is really coming together. I too am having trouble with my contributions (often it seems that the JOD is deleted). By the way current time is 12/8/16 2051 pm so the quoted times are alos a little off J0D (talk) 01:52, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Changing the Name to Dark Social
Guys, I went through all the materials we gathered, and found that all the materials are actually talking about Dark Social rather than Dark Social Media. I suggest that maybe we should change the title of this article to Dark Social. There is a german version of Dark Social on Wikipedia talking about the same topic. Although there is a section on Dark Social Media in Social Computing, but there isn't any research done on the issue described in that section quoting "The Dark social media is the social media tools used to collaborate between individuals where contents are supposed to be only available to the participants." I feel like the unknown feature of Dark Social makes it really hard for researchers to put their efforts into it without excessively exploit personal privacy.Ky Zheng 18:05, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

I feel like this point is moot since dark social is what people use dark social media channels for. The terms are pretty much interchangeable and many definitions simply abbreviate dark social media as dark social. Simonxliu (talk) 18:37, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I think it's fine to change the name to Dark Social. Since everything we say in the article is simply Dark Social.  Michaels2002 (talk) 21:45, 8 December 2016 (UTC) AgreedJ0D (talk) 00:44, 9 December 2016 (UTC)