Talk:Darkthrone

Untitled
Darkthrone are certainly NOT a fascist band, I would hasten to add - read the inside cover of their 'Panzerfaust' album. I quote, ad verbatim, "Darkthrone are certainly not a political or fascist band. Anyone who still thinks so can kiss mother Mary's ass in Hell". - Goregasm_666

"It was followed by their quintessential masterpiece Transilvanian Hunger, which is generally regarded as Darkthrone's finest work, although the band itself regards it as being a rather untypical Darkthrone record. (In reality, Transilvanian Hunger is considered by a vast majority to be Darkthrone's best album. It is listed as one of the ten best Black Metal recordings of all time on Pagan Reviews.)"

Is this second sentence necessary? Not only does it basically restate the same idea as the previous sentence, but it seems to be POV. And what is Pagan Reviews? There is no link for it and a quick google search did not turn up anything that seems to relate to this.

Album reviews?
Wtf with the stars given to albums calling it professional reviews? It all depends on personal taste and serves no purpose in something like Wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.174.131.194 (talk) 14:48, 23 December 2006 (UTC).

Butt kissing?
I enjoy Darkthrone as much as the next fan, but this article seems to have too many objective statements.


 * I think you mean subjective. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 01:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The End Records
Darkthrone have never been on The End Records. Moonfog licensed their albums to The End Records, but Darkthrone have never released any albums through The End Records.

Notability
This article does not appear to meet the notability requirements of WP:BAND. In particular:

A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:


 * 1) It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable. No works mentioned in article, at all.
 * 2) * This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, and television documentaries except for the following:
 * 3) ** Media reprints of press releases, other publications where the musician/ensemble talks about themselves, and advertising for the musician/ensemble.
 * 4) ** Works comprising merely trivial coverage, such as newspaper articles that simply report performance dates or the publications of contact and booking details in directories.
 * 5) **An article in a school or university newspaper (or similar) would generally be considered trivial but should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.
 * 6) Has had a charted hit on any national music chart. No claim that any single or album has charted anywhere
 * 7) Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one country. No claim that any record has been certified as a gold record.
 * 8) Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country, reported in reliable sources. No claim for having ever toured.
 * 9) Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable). This criterion may be met, but it's not clear. Peaceville Records' list of bands seems to mostly include bands with no indications of notability in their articles, but some of their artists actually have references to independent reviews or discussion.
 * 10) Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable; note that it is often most appropriate to use redirects in place of articles on side projects, early bands and such. '''The only other band mentioned as having Darkthrone members, Eibon, is a redlink.
 * 11) Has become the most prominent representative of a notable style or of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability. No such claim is made in the article.
 * 12) Has won a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury or Grammis award. No such claim is made in the article
 * 13) Has won or placed in a major music competition. No such claim is made in the article.
 * 14) Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a compilation album, etc. (But if this is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and redirect to that page.) No such claim is made in the article.
 * 15) Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network. No such claim is made in the article.
 * 16) Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast on a national radio or TV network. No such claim is made in the article.

If this band truly is notable, then it should be easy to show how this band meets several of the criteria listed above, and provide independent references to verify those claims. If not, I'll put this article up for deletion in about two days. Argyriou (talk) 01:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh boy. I never realised how hard it would be to prove the notability of Darkthrone.  Being an underground and non-commercial band, a lot of these items aren't applicable to this band (the idea of a Darkthrone gold record or international tour is laughable.) However, you're right in saying they must be met, as they are the rules.  I dare say that if this were nominated for AfD, the result would be a speedy keep.  As written on the article for Black metal, Darkthrone are both prominent in the style, and regarded as influential.
 * I don't have the time right now to personally justify Darkthrone's notability, but for a start:
 * National (Australian) radio broadcast with interviews and several songs http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/racket/s865922.htm
 * Article from Blabbermouth.net stating they were nominated for a Norwegian music industry award but refused it. http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=30464
 * Are prominent representatives of Norwegian black metal, a staple of Norwegian culture as mentioned on the Music of Norway article.
 * There are countless interviews and articles on-line, but this is what I can come up with quickly on my lunch break.
 * Obviously this stuff, and more, needs to be worked into the article, but I am just one man, and I do feel that Argyriou may be going to lengths to make a point. Although, I can see that if you weren't a metal or black metal fan, you may genuinely believe Darkthrone to not be notable. The KZA (formerly MrHate) 03:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Seeing the references you've put up here makes me think that Darkthrone actually is notable, and if it gets incorporated into the article, the article would easily survive an AfD. But not being a fan of death metal, I can't tell if these guys really are that awesome, or if they just have someone who keeps putting out their records and a big fan who can write well putting up this article. Argyriou (talk) 06:54, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, even if the "major" media don't cover Darkthrone, there are surely webzines dedicated to death metal which have articles written about their shows and/or albums. Given that the genre is out of the cultural mainstream (or not - does Hot Topic sell "Darkthrone" t-shirts?), the standards for reliability don't require mainstream coverage, just independent coverage. Argyriou (talk) 07:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That seems pretty reasonable. With that in mind, this article needs a lot of work, and I am just one man.  We might need to get a bit of a working bee going to justify a lot of this stuff. The KZA (formerly MrHate) 03:12, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Since you mentioned it, I had a look and it looks like Hot Topic sell a Darkthrone CD The KZA (formerly MrHate) 03:19, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Darkthrone are certainly notable and putting them up for AfD would be a bit extreme. Darkthrone are of the most important and influential bands in black metal. Unfortunately, a lot of what makes them so influental will make meeting all the notablity requirements difficult. They are media shy, don't like a lot of attention, shun awards when they are nominated, stay on a small label on purpose, and they do not play live much less tour. I don't have a lot of time to do this, but here we go, point by point.


 * 1) Lords of Chaos This book is about the black metal movement, Darkthrone are discussed. There have been countless magazine articles written about the band as well in magazine like Terrorizer, Brave Words, Metal Maniacs, etc. These are all metal specific publications, but you're not going to see Darkthrone reviewed on NPR or something. I'm pretty sure I have some on hard copy at home, finding them online might be tougher.
 * 2) Darkthrone has recently had a charted EP in Norway. Number 11.  http://www.rockdetector.com/news/artist,2200.sm;jsessionid=E981ED8E27BB6A13885C5CC199CE6E3A?id=2300
 * 3) Doubtful they have gone gold anywhere.
 * 4) Darkthrone doesn't tour or play shows. This shouldn't disqualify them from notability. The band is 2 people, hard to do live.
 * 5) There early albums were on Peaceville. Peaceville was incredibly important in the early years of death and black metal. I don't want to get into an argument about their notability here, however. See Choosing Death for more info. Many of Peaceville's bands meet 1,2,4,5.
 * 6) Eibon isn't that important. Nocturno Culto (Darkthrone guitarist/singer) played with Satyricon on the Nemesis Divina album. Satyricon is notable, released albums on a major label, lot's of 3rd party coverage, charted, international tours, etc.
 * 7) In my opinion, this is the biggest reason Darkthrone should be included. They may not be the 'most' prominent, whatever that means, but they are very prominent in the Norweigan black metal scene. They were one of the first and early bands and largely defined the style in the early 90's.
 * 8) Nominated for a Norweigan Alarm award but turned it down. http://www.rockdetector.com/news/artist,2200.sm?id=153. Reading their comments at that link will give some indication of their personality and attitude towards the music industry.
 * 9) N/A
 * 10) N/A
 * 11) Generally, black metal of any sort doesn't get radio attention.
 * 12) They have been in serveral documentaries, I'm not aware of any where they are the sole subject.

All this being said, I don't necessarily have the time to rewrite this article and include all this stuff. I can help digging up references and some other things this weekend. I would think listing this for Afd is over the line. Aboverepine 16:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

This is a very important band in the development of heavy metal. There is a page for the band Weakling, but they're most certainly less notable, with way less written about them. This music isn't meant to be 'notable' by the mainstream press or radio, they try their hardest to avoid that at all costs.Kgppra17 21:40, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Genres
What the fuck is "blackened crust"? Sounds like a bad pizza, not a music genre. Relax with adding genres to a band that's pretty much synonymous with plain old black metal.Kgppra17 22:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Quotes on the music genre of blackened crust Tasty. I'll enjoy those while I'm listening to blackened symphonic viking funkcore.Kgppra17 09:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * "I agree, the chicken is always overcooked, with a blackened crust where it was sitting in the pan."
 * "The blackened crust is a mark of the slow smoking process that makes meat unspeakably succulent."
 * "Can we chalk the blackened crust up to the tactile distraction of his DOH gloves? Regardless, a little char is a minor quibble with pizza this good."
 * "A hot grill coupled with a crispy, "blackened" crust adds a fiery, Cajun touch to halibut."

Random IP who keeps changing the genrebox for this article, please give a reason why you think this band should be listed as more than a black metal band. I think it's just page clutter, and honestly, anyone who likes punk and hears old Darkthrone probably wouldn't like it at all.Kgppra17 20:45, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Darkthrone is mainly a black metal band of course (their earlier stuff like A Blaze In The Northern Sky is nothing more than just a black metal), but their newer stuff (which is still BM) has a lot of references to and influences from crust punk. As it's noted in the article, it should be noted in the genrebox as well. Nothingagainst 12:00, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

It has been stated that Darkthrone having crust punk influences is a 'fact'. I personally don't particularly doubt this, but could be viewed as marginally controversial. It's not a fact until it's referenced. And not by some internet fanzine / reviews site. Why do people still insist on using these? Blackmetalbaz (talk) 00:56, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Just to qualify... my issue is not with the statement, just with the shit references. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 00:58, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Covered by ...
Is it okay to add a list with Darkthrone covers by other bands (beyond the compilation already mentioned)? That should prove their influence, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.61.159.249 (talk) 15:40, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

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Against the dead Christ but not against the living Christian Monarch and the crossed national flag
Most people in the extreme metal scene in Norway consider Jesus a dead man. Darkthrone are accused of supporting mainstream ideas against Jesus with which most of the youth and a great part of the population already agree. They never opposed non elected monarchy that includes Christian symbols and ceremonies. Also Darkthrone composed a song to turn around all crosses, they turn around the Norwegian flag, but are afraid to support an official permanent legal change considering the Christian National flag. Darkthrone accept Christian Monarchs and flags. Accept to be under monarchs that use Christian heraldry and ceremonies. Darkthrone are accused of being pseudo-antichristian populist who speak about accepted concepts in Norge like the fact Jesus isn't considered god by many citizens. It isn't perceived as enough by extremist blacksters.

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