Talk:Das klagende Lied

Song of Lamentation
Do you think that 'Song of Accusation' might be a better translation? I've always thought that the flute raised a Klage in the legal sense.

Such an idea would need sourcing. But, there's no rule against a footnote saying that a well-known translation might be wrong. Narky Blert (talk) 20:35, 4 August 2018 (UTC)


 * You mean like "Anklage"? Never thought of it that way, rather lamenting, mourning. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:46, 4 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Perhaps better still – include both translations to reflect the ambiguity between Klage/klagend. ("Nun führ' ich Klage wieder Elsa von Brabant" usw.)
 * The story parallels the The Golden Spinning Wheel (Dvořák), and probably other stories also. Narky Blert (talk) 21:22, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Royal Opera House? - But I thought more about it, all "klagend" I know are lamenting, the others being "anklagend". See de:Klagelied. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:43, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm still not convinced that ein klagendes Lied is the same thing as ein Klagelied.
 * "Ach Spielmann, lieber Spielmann mein, das muß ich dir nun klagen" has the primary meaning of lament. However, the catastrophe in Part III isn't the result of a lament (in English, a lament is usually, perhaps always, fruitless).
 * Mahler made a good decision when he chose to set original Wunderhorn texts rather than writing his own. His Songs of a Travelling Salesman stand up well as music, but less so as poetry. Narky Blert (talk) 22:29, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I am convinced that Mahler just wanted to be more original than wanting to use the very common phrase Klagelieder, which in German has a biblical connotation, Klagelieder Jeremiah, the Book of Lamentations. Making the songs the mourners, not the singer, very clever ;) - songs wouldn't accuse, they don't know law. - Perhaps we do need a better English word than lament, because it's really about missing someone lost. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:25, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Let's leave the article as it is! If you and I cannot think of a better translation, I doubt that there is one. Any reader who is interested in the topic can read our learnèd discussion on this page.
 * I've also come across The Doleful Song, which strikes me as perhaps the worst translation of the lot. The obsolete English noun 'dole' meant sorrow or grief, a synonym of 'dolour': more Schmerz than Klage.
 * I see that Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen has a short section on the problem of translating that title. I wonder if Mahler was consciously or unconsciously writing an alternative conclusion to Die schöne Müllerin?
 * Do you know Vaughan Williams' Songs of Travel? Narky Blert (talk) 18:06, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * No, sorry, only From the Bavarian Highlands :) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:42, 5 August 2018 (UTC)