Talk:Dassault Mirage F1/Archive 1

Okay, it's a start ...
I made a quick run-through doing some basic clean-up and wordsmithing. It needs more, particularly w.r.t. organizing and expanding the info on "Combat History". It seems odd that the first entry is above that section header, and an airplane that "has seen combat with a number of Air Forces in various places around the world" only lists Ecuador's experiences (plus one example of Iraq's). --Askari Mark | Talk 16:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Iran's use of ex-Iraqi F1s
ACIG.org has an article on Iran's use of ex-Iraqi F1s in its war against Afghan drug lords on its eastern border. Apparently, one F1 was damaged by a MANPAD and crash landed on returning to its airbase. I will try to find the article and post it here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.237.224.164 (talk) 06:41, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

South African License-Production
Many sources have claimed that Atlas Aircraft of South Africa recieved rights to license produce the Mirage F.1. Some of the sources includes Air Vectors site and IPMS South Afica site, as well as the book Modern Military Aircraft by Bill Gunston. I am going to include this fact in the article, in the South African section.72.146.191.242 16:13, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't been able to find the claim on the IPMS South Africa site, do you have a link? Nevertheless, even SA did have the rights to produce the Mirage F1, it never exercised them. This is likely due to the advent of the United Nations arms embargo against the country in the late 1970s, which fell into place just as the final Mirage F1s were being delivered from France. There would not have been time for any tooling for licence-production to be exported, while the embargo itself probably legally nullified those same licence-production rights in any case. &mdash; Impi 19:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Look at the last sentence on the first page of the article. (if this does not take you to the article, looking at the top of the page for something that says Dassault Mirage F1AZ/CZ)

Not only this, many other sources confirm it as well. Does it really matter if theywere never any made under license anyway, just the fact that they were awarded production rights is noteworthy in itself and I believe it should be mentioned. Also, South Africa recieved its Mirages in 1974-1976. The arms embargoes came in the 1980s. That would leave six years for tooling a factory, plenty of time. I don't think that was a reason. Nor do I think they would have particularly cared if their license was revoked, they would have already had the necessary machinery. They could have just produced it anyway. I am going to e-mail Dassault and ask them. I think that would be a satisfactory source for everyone here.SAWGunner89 19:20, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The arms embargo was implemented in 1977, only a year after the final Mirage delivery. It's doubtful there would've been the time for the delivery and installation of tooling and the training of personnel before the gate slammed shut. Setting up a fighter jet production line, even for 1970s vintage aircraft, is a pretty significant and drawn-out process, so I'm angling towards the lack-of-time angle on this. Still, it would be interesting to hear what Dassault's response is. &mdash; Impi 08:30, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Still waiting. I am afraid I might have sent it to the wrong section of the company. If I do not hear from them soon, I will send it again, and perhaps try a different section. I don't think it is their fault it is taking so long to get back.SAWGunner89 16:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

MiG-23 shot down Mirage F-1CZ - inaccurate
A Mirage was damaged and forced to make an emergency landing after an engagement with a MiG-23 during the war in Angola. The damage to the aircraft was substantial enough to warrant its withdrawal from service. The pilot was seriously injured by an ejection seat malfunction during the hard landing. This event highlighted a gap in the SAAF's capabilities -- an apparent lack of a BVR AAM such as the Super 530 or Sparrow. This handicap was the result of the arms embargo but it is unclear why ARMSCOR had not developed a native MRAAM. The SAAF was able to limit the MiG-23's BVR advantage to some extent through changes in mission profile. (Source. Helmer Roemer Heitman's book.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew morkel (talk • contribs) 19:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

In fact the plane succesfully landed but was unable to stop before reaching the end of the runway due to the damaged recieved in combat. (It lost the dragchute). In the following link Arthur Piercy talks about the incident: http://www.piercy.co.za/accident2_details.htm Miguel.A.Lopez.Regalado (talk) 16:48, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Operators (Colombia)
Spain sale or almost gifted 8 F1´s to Colombia as you can see in the article: http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/Espana/entregara/aviones/combate/Mirage/Colombia/luchar/narco-terrorismo/elpepiesp/20030301elpepinac_6/Tes (in spanish) The planes where developed due to a Spanish support to Colombia against the Guerrilla and drug mafia. That´s why i´m suggesting to include Colombia as a current operator. Thanks!--MigeruMadorido (talk) 00:16, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

The South Africa flag in the Operators list is incorrect Miguel.A.Lopez.Regalado (talk) 16:51, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

No missile armament?
The article says that when introduced in 1973 the Mirage F1 was armed only with cannons, and that the R530 missile was used only from 1976 onwards. With the missile being in service since 1962, this seems a bit unusual. Can anyone confirm or deny this claim?

Diego bf109 (talk) 13:29, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello, it seems there was a confusion between the Matra 530 and the Super 530 which is a vastly improved version and enter service in 1976 (but the tests on the F1 started in 1976 explaining the date in the article). I think the new version is more accurate although I couldn't find anything linking the F1 with the Matra 530 specifically when it entered service. But that seems logical.--McSly (talk) 20:17, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, Spain couldn't have used the F.1/Super 530 combo to counter Algerian MiG-25s because the Super 530 only entered the arsenal with the Qatari Mirages after 1994. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.240.128.75 (talk) 14:24, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Destruction of two SU-25s and three HINDs by French Air Force F1, Ivory Coast 2004
Folks,

This claim is in dispute by various defense journalists who claim instead French Sp Ops did it with wire guided MILAN antitank missiles. This claim is backed up by photos which show limited damage done to the nose section. An air strike by F1s would have totally destroyed the SU-25/HINDs.

Jack E. Hammond--Jackehammond (talk) 21:45, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era
Folks,

I am not a Wiki-Fanatic or a Wiki-Delete Barney Fifth; but a listing of comparable aircraft as the F-5E/F, the Mig-21 and Mig-23 is wrong. Totally wrong! The F-5E is crippled by a short range, with any payload. As the Canadians say "It can take off and have the range to bomb its the end of it own runway and land." The Mig-21 is a point interceptor with almost no payload and range! And the Mig-23 technically is equal somewhat, but is in it own category with its adjustable swing wing. Jack E. HammondJackehammond (talk) 06:23, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Map
In the map an explanation of "current" would be useful, as time moves on. Maybe one should say "as of date so-and-so". JMK (talk) 07:11, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Spain retires its F-1s, Argentina buys the Spanish F-1
Could someone with more time reference this and add this.

Reference: http://en.mercopress.com/2013/10/01/argentina-buys-16-mirage-f-1-from-spain-half-have-air-refuelling-capacity — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.31.59.250 (talk) 22:15, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Infobox Primary Users update?
All four of the Primary Users noted in the Infobox are now marked as (historical), should it be updated to reflect the current primary users (i.e Gabon, Iran, Libya, Morocco)? Mztourist (talk) 05:08, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Variants list
Hi I noticed the list of variants is very detailed regarding the specs and numbers for export aircraft, but there is no data I saw about the French operated variants and their stats, even though the French were the largest operators of the type. 75.164.202.203 (talk) 06:19, 31 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks 75, you are right we need to find a realiable source for French use and add numbers ordered and such like in the variants table. MilborneOne (talk) 07:58, 31 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Some of the main French Air Force variants are more fully discribed but dont appear in the "list" of variants which is confusing, it might need to be re-organised to read better. MilborneOne (talk) 08:37, 31 March 2019 (UTC)