Talk:David Beckham/Archive 3

Trivia section
I've just removed this (again). Per WP:Trivia, there should be not be trivia sections in articles. Dave101 →talk  08:11, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:TRIV#What_this_guideline_is_not

There are a number of pervasive misunderstandings about this guideline and the course of action it suggests:


 * This guideline does not suggest removing trivia sections, or moving them to the talk page. - If information is otherwise suitable, it is better that it be poorly presented than not presented at all.
 * This guideline does not suggest always avoiding lists in favor of prose. - Some information is better presented in a list format.
 * This guideline does not suggest omitting unimportant material. - This guideline does not attempt to address the issue of what information is included or not — only how it is organized.

that is not what the above guideline seems to state.Sennen goroshi 12:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Capped off His Cap in Style??
So much for NPOV there. What is with the "who just capped off his career in style" line? Not only is that not keeping with a neutral theme, it is an update that really can't last more than a few weeks once he joins the Galaxy.


 * I'd say it's factually wrong, cos he hasn't finished his career, so he hasn't "capped his career" at all yet. Removing.  If someone objects, they can put it back and give reasons why here.Smoothy 11:19, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Additional words: OK, it does say "capped off his Real Madrid career" so it isn't factually wrong. Changed line anyway to something more plain, but agree that intro should probably be reworked as it doesn't read completely encyclopaedic.Smoothy 11:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Lead section too long
In my opinion, the lead section needs a serious overhaul, as it's to large and encompasses to many points that could and should be in the main article (see Lead section). Darkson (Yabba Dabba Doo!) 22:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The lead is ridiculous at the moment. I would have a go at cutting it down but it's best waiting until  the article is more stable. Dave101  →talk  19:00, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dave The guidelines say the lead should be about four paragraphs, but that would be the norm.  David Beckham is not a normal article, as the subject is a major figure in current news now.  I agree wholeheartedly with your post here.  I am going to try to help make it shorter.

Boyceboye 15:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Multiple links
Article has multiple redundent wikilinks - link not needed for every mention of 2007 or Real Madrid for example, especially not in the same paragraph. Darkson (Yabba Dabba Doo!) 13:08, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, you have clearly not understood that linking years when adjacent to linked date/month is not done just for the sake of wikilinking - it is required to allow all user-selected date formatting options to work, therefore I have reinstated the links. -- Arwel (talk) 19:22, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * My bad - sorry! However, I stand by my point of things like Real Madrid and England not needing to be link every time they're used, especially not in the same sentence! Darkson (Yabba Dabba Doo!) 23:30, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

salary per second
the article states that he will earn about $90/second on the field. correct me if i am wrong but assuming he plays every minute (which he will probably come close to), this # seems inaccurate. if he gets $90 a second then 50,000,000/90(# of $'s/second)/3,600(# of seconds/hour)=154 hours. They play about 30 games per season which is 154/30=about 5 hours per game. This is ridiculous (unless you are including training and everything else) because the games are about 90 minutes. so unless i'm crazy 90 minutes=1.5 hours and 1.5 hours*30 games=45 hours. if this is true, 50,000,000/45(hours played)/3,600(seconds/hour)=about $308/second. This can be rounded to $300/second, still way above 90 a second. So either A) i made a mistake (i'm wrong), B) 90=300, C) your wrong, i'm right, or D) we are both wrong i'd say A is 20%, B is 1%, C is 65%, and D is 14%. up to u to find the right answer.

Poemisaglock 18:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC) i read the thing about the base salary only being $10 million. In that case this is 1/5 of 50 mil so 1/5 of $308 a second is about $60. your still off as far as i can tell.


 * Actually, his base salary is $6.5 million. The $10 million is with incentives and the other $40 million have nothing to do with salary, and references to such are completely untrue. N1120A 07:48, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Soccer or Football
As Beckham makes the transition from footballer to Soccer-player, perhaps the article should as well. He will be introduced to a new audience in the states who will be looking him up and the term Footballer will not make sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.32.5.81 (talk)
 * Nonsense. His nationality does not change, and we do not change the phrasing of this article either. -- Arwel (talk) 15:21, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nice... It was a legitimate question. There's no need to deride the person asking the question by throwing out "Nonsense." --Elliskev 15:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The above writer in incorrect, he should be referred to as a soccer player. As far as I know, this portion of wikipedia is not British, and "footballer" should be understood to be a silly term even by it's fans overseas.  Even so, if Wikipedia was written by and for people in the United kingdom, any and all "football" terms would be appropriate, but as this is American, we already have our own football, and "soccer" has been the accepted term on this side of the Atlantic, "soccer" should be used.  His nationality is also irrelevant...if baseball happened to be called "batball" in England, and Barry Bonds went over there to play the game, he should then be called a batball player, not a baseball player. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Odysseybookshop (talk • contribs)

Using the term 'nonense' is hardly offensive is it? Or are American's just to sensitive?! Beckham's an English player who's played his career in Europe for most of his life of course he should be noted as a footballer that's his employment as well as being a media personality. This portion of Wikipedia is British. How on earth can you say 'footballer' is a silly term what a stupid statement to make. Using that same logic then it's like saying 'basketball' is a stupid name. Piss Off Yanks, Screw America. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.51.181 (talk) 00:23, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep it as it is, he is is an English player, therefore recognised as a "football" player. This article should still retain British English spelling and terms, per WP:ENGVAR. Dave101 →talk  16:38, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * However... He does not (will not) play football in the U.S. He will play soccer. I think the best scenario would be to follow the lead of the Football (soccer) article and call him a Football (soccer) player. Footballer is totally unnecessary. --Elliskev 16:52, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed he is going to play football. While I love american football, I never understood why game you play by your hands is called football :). But seriously. The main reason for keeping word football is that Beckham has and will always have more fans outside USA where the game is called football. Plus, Beckham spent his whole live playing football (since he was a child), while he did not even started his "soccer" career. 80 % of the article should be about his time in Manchester, Real, English team... about his "football" career. Anyway most of the article was probably written by his British fans. --Jan.Smolik 20:42, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Just for the record all the various codes of football are called football because of the fact that the game is played on foot rather than on horseback. If you don't believe me look at the football article.  --   Grant  .  Alpaugh  15:05, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well observed, nonetheless, even though this is Wikipedia in English, it's still an American originated site. As he's now part of American pop culture, he is now a soccer player.  Should he return to the UK, he can play any sport that's available there, here, it's "soccer".  As a compromise, the above stated Football (soccer) I guess will have to do.  "Footballer" should be out, and all future references post July 1st, should be soccer exclusively, until Mr. Beckham returns to England. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.19.101.156 (talk • contribs) 20:56, 13 Jul 2007 (UTC)

There is a standard (or consensus - probably not the correct word either (in my defence, I am slightly drunk - LOL) that unless there is some overiding need, articles should stay in the "language" they were started in (I believe it's on the Wikipedia page about the differences in UK and US English). Now, wheter "football" or "soccer" come under this remit, I'm not going to pass judgement.  However, he will always be a "football" player for the majority of people that know of him.  And personally, I find the "Wikipedia in English, it's still an American originated site" ridiculous.  That's just a step away from saying non-US edits are of less importance than US ones, and that all articles should be written in US English. Darkson (Yabba Dabba Doo!) 21:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Follow-up: Article is here - WP:ENGVAR, especially referencing Retaining the existing variety  in that article. Darkson (Yabba Dabba Doo!) 21:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It is totally irrelevant where wikipedia originated, and whther it originated in the USA is completely and utterly irrelevant as stated by Darkson there is a standard by which if an article has been written in say British English, then it should continue in that. There is no reason whatsoever to change the format of him being a footballer to the vast majority of the world just to accomodate one country who insist on calling the sport soccer when most of the rest of the world call it football. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 22:00, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I must have hit a nerve! Nonsense! This is an encyclopedia, and this particular one is grounded in American English. This is not to deny anyone their freed


 * It's quite simple. Where the website originated from has no bearing on the language of the article.  It was started in British English, it should stay in British English, especially as most of his career (let alone his life) was spent outside the US.  Sorry, it should simply stay British English.  This also means that terms such as "soccer" and "soccer player" should be very sparingly used, but terms such as "footballer" should be the norm (as stated above in the official Wikipedia standard/concensus WP:ENGVAR). Smoothy (talk) 21:09, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Quickly point out something, when brits say "footballer", they pronounce it like foot-ball-lar/ler, not foot-ball-ERR. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beckford14 (talk • contribs) 16:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That's being a bit general. I'm as english as they come and I say 'foot-ball-er', no doubt lots of others do too Pullshapes (talk) 17:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm English too, specifically from Croydon, and I can definately say most blokes add a 'L sound' to the last syllable and also say the word 'footballer' reasonably quick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beckford14 (talk • contribs) 15:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

English player, known for playing an English game know throughout the world as Football not Soccer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.70.96.92 (talk) 19:11, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll clear this up nice and concisely.

He is English/British. His nationality does not change, and the sport he plays has not changed either. The OFFICIAL name for this sport is Association Football, and is therefore shortened to football. "Soccer" is a SLANG word, an unofficial name the Americans have rather daftly adopted. Therefore, considering that football is the official name, considering that the sport he plays has not changed, and considering that he is English/British, this article should undeniably be written using the term football rather than the incorrect term of soccer.

I'm sorry to say this, but anyone who disagrees is a fool of the highest order. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.92.38 (talk) 16:46, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, to the ignorant fool saying that wiki should be edited in American English because it's an American site - I will kindly remind you that the language itself originated in Britain, as did the World Wide Web. By your logic, everything should be written in British English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.92.38 (talk) 16:51, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

David Beckham's Nationality
David Beckham is British. He was born in England, which is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. In Great Britain, comprises England, Scotland and Wales. England and Scotland ceased to be indepedent countries in 1707 with the Act of Union. It even states he is an OBE, which he gets from the Queen of the United Kingdom, not the Queen of England. Rjd83 21:19, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's like saying we are all European, the UK is a constiuant country in the EU. From English people: "The English (from Old English Ænglisc) are a nation and ethnic group native to England and speak English." England is a nation, therefore his nationality is "English" Even on the Census you have the option to state your nationality as "English" "Scottish" "Welsh" or "British". He plays for the English National Football team. From Nationality: "Nationality can also mean membership in a cultural/historical group related to political or national identity, even if it currently lacks a formal state. This meaning is said by some authorities to cover many groups, including Kurds, Basques, Catalans, the Welsh, Scots, Palestinians, Tamils, and many others." That would obviously include the English. He plays for the English national football team. His nationality is clearly English. -Toon05 21:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * When there's a British football team, his nationality can change (if he ever plays for them).
 * Personally, the day they decide I can no longer be Englissh, and have to be British is the day I emigrate. Darkson (Yabba Dabba Doo!) 22:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * On a more serious note, you need to remember that for footballers (and other sportsmaen on Wiki?), natiionality is the country they play for. Take Owen Hargreaves as an example.  Born in Canada, raised in Germany, and eligible to play for any of the four Home Countries, but he's "English" as he plays for England. Darkson (Yabba Dabba Doo!) 22:58, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, glad it's not just me making up a nationality... I was starting to wonder whether I was some right-wing nationalist! -Toon05 23:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, he plays for the England national team, he should be listed as English. --Muchness 23:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * English, absolutely. It's not incorrect to say he's British, but English is more specific, and therefore a better option. faithless   (speak)   12:41, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

goals for galaxy
why does it say no goals scored in the table then next to it say he scored a goal in the intro. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.48.110 (talk) 13:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The table is for league goals only, but that goal was in the cup. --OZOO (What?) 13:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * as this season he moved to la galaxy he scored right he scored 2 goals for la galaxy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.250.17.114 (talk) 12:48, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

he has scored 5 goals as of july 5. he scored two of those goals against real salt lake. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.169.193.147 (talk) 23:51, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Euro 2004
In the article it says this: "Beckham played in all of England's matches at Euro 2004, but the tournament was a disappointment for him. He had a penalty saved in England's 2-1 defeat to France and missed another in a penalty shootout in the quarter final against Portugal. England lost the shootout and went out of the competition., he never had a pk in the match saved as there was never a penalty given (only to the french) Y2J RKO 19:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, that's not right. Becks missed a pen in the France game too... BBC. -Toon05 09:36, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed. See this if you are still unsure. I remember the match.. agonising. Jack 00:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Length?
The Red Devil Era (1993-2003) - Word Count = 1208 | Los Blancos Era (2003-2007) - Word Count = 994 | Galaxy Era (2007+ approx. Only 10 months) - Word Count = 1224

Are you guys seriousilly going to add every little thing he does? In the context of his contributions to the game of football which is the primary objective in establishing his status around the world, the previous 16+ years of information should heavily outway the last 10 months. Unless he's done something spectacular, like killing his ex-wife, going on the run in a suv, and then being taken to court only to be deemed innocent due to the Chewbacca defence. And technically if the last incident did happen, it would get its own page anyways! Look at the wookie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.150.170 (talk) 03:15, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It's wikipedia - people write about stuff they are interested in, not necessarily stuff that it is of global value.--82.133.79.7 09:46, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Touché! I guess there goes the idea of a free encyclopedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.150.170 (talk) 00:31, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunate but true, people will write about current events more than is perhaps necessary, but over time it'll come down to important information. Anything which is blatant waffle can be deleted, but we can't stop people adding info... which is the beauty of this project, non? -Toon05 23:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Club appearance/goal stats table is misaligned
Just a small note, there is a problem with the alignment of cells on the (senior club) appearance/goal stats table. Goals scored for Preston north end is appearing where the Real Madrid stats should be, forcing the Real stats into where the LA Galaxy stats should be, making it appear that, at time of writing, he has 116 appearances and 13 goals for the Galaxy.

Ozzpot Ozzpot (talk) 12:27, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. Darkson (Yabba Dabba Doo!) 17:58, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

LA Galaxy (2007-present) section
Kind of picking up on a point made above here (sorry) - there is far too much information in the "LA Galaxy (2007-present)" section, and I'm sure not all of it is needed. If you look at articles of footballers from all over the world, they don't have each match they have played in documented on their articles, as there is just no point. Just key moments should be on there, with a summary of his first season at the end. Now Beckham's first season at the Galaxy is over, would it be possible to condense, or summarise the info which is on there? Pullshapes (talk) 12:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I concur. It should be condensed into something that displays an overall picture of how he has done in his first season in the US.  It doesn't need paragraphs dissecting every move he's made in every game, especially as the resulting text makes the section (which only covers a year at the most) bigger than his earlier stuff (which covers a far bigger and more important time period). Smoothy (talk) 15:16, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Beckham in NFL?
Beckham in NFL? Will he be joining the San Francisco 49ers? It would be good for the sport of American Football in the UK. Copied from TheObserverOnline.com today. Robert C Prenic (talk) 07:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * New links:


 * article 1
 * article 2 (video) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert C Prenic (talk • contribs) 07:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Need sub sections to deal with length
Per WP:MOS the sections: All are very long and should be divided into subsections, per prior discussions it may be appropriate to organize them in a similar manner to each other but regardless they should be each worked on (I would start with the oldest first) to remove anything not adding much to his bio. Benjiboi 18:37, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Manchester United (1993-2003)
 * 2) Real Madrid (2003-2007)
 * 3) LA Galaxy (2007-present)

Does this topic matter?
http://in.news.yahoo.com/071215/139/6ohhn.html Apokrif (talk) 00:19, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Beckham's Sponsorship with Adidas
Does anyone know if Beckham has supported any Fairtrade or Oxfam campaigns that might be vehmently opposed to a company like Adidas? Has he ever commented on the Adidas sweatshops in countries like Indonesia? The main article says that Beckham has supported UNICEF, and UNICEF has opposed the use of child labour by companies like Adidas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.14.152.15 (talk) 01:32, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Jewish?
Is it necessary to put him in categories like English Jews or Jewish footballer? I know that he has Jewish grandparents, but he doesn't practice this religion anymore. Ario_ManUtd 22:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)--Ario ManUtd (talk) 15:05, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And then, this category has absolutely not just practicing Jews. But above all on wikipedia, Jews by their families, parents, grandparents & conversions. So yes, David Beckham is Jewish, or a half-Jew as he describes himself.--Meryl-H (talk) 21:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It would only be possible to include it here if we had reliable references stating that he met the criteria for inclusion, and a consensus here to include it. I don't see either at the moment. --John (talk) 23:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Only his grandfather was Jewish not his grandmother. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 14:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Affair
Seriously, unless the "Affair claims" section is referenced with anything better than News of the World, it's a WP:BLP violation. Are there any other references to these supposed affairs? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:50, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding them! I'm not sure that the whole thing is necessarily a significant event in his life and/or isn't WP:UNDUE, but I appreciate the reliable sources that have been added! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 16:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Reword?
The phrase "Although there is the notable fact that Beckham led La Liga in assists for the season." after Beckham's 3rd red card of the season seems a bit out of place, can someone rephrase? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.122.126 (talk) 16:35, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Club career section
In the 'Club career' section, each club has the years that he was at the club. (ie Manchester United (1993-2003)) But as I was wondering, I rarely see other footballer's articles with the dates on the sub-section headers. With the years already present in the infobox, I was just wondering if it was necessary and if it should possibly just be removed.  crassic ![ talk ] 04:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

1996/97 PFA Young Player of the Year
Someone needs to put in his achievements in the 1996/97 season that saw him win the PFA Young Player of the year and score many spectacular goals as United retained their Premiership crown and saw him become a household name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.2.191 (talk) 02:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Fan Base
His biggest fan of ALL TIME is Chenue Her! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.131.49.136 (talk) 13:47, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

no get a life. his biggest fan is a real salt lake fan ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.169.193.147 (talk) 23:52, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The Hurt Locker
I have just seen the excellent Kathryn Bigalow film The Hurt Locker. A young Iraqi character is called 'Beckham'; clearly a reference to David. Does anyone think this is worthy of a mention in the growing Fame beyond football (ie. in popular culture) section? Kayakboy (talk) 02:45, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

fans site
http://beckham.org chinese beckham fans site —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beimi (talk • contribs) 09:12, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Poem by the Poet Laureate
Should this get a mention - Carol Ann Duffy, the UK's Poet Laureate, has written a poem inspired by Beckham's Achilles' tendon injury (BBC website link here with Duffy reading the poem.). 86.137.138.12 (talk) 11:30, 17 March 2010 (UTC)