Talk:David Hamilton (photographer)/Archive 1

Merge
Twenty Five Years of an Artist has been unsourced for nearly four years and should be merged here, possibly in a "major works" section, since most of the others seem to be unsourced and/or redlinked. But a major retrospective would seem to be worthy of treatment. Rodhull andemu  01:27, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Likewise, Holiday Snapshots is poorly sourced and its only claim to fame seems to be that it was banned in New Zealand. Unless and until notability can be independently established, it should merge here as a list of "notable" works. Rodhull andemu  01:36, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Flament claim
Flavie Flament confirmed this morning that he is her rapist (she didn't identify him specifically in her book). I don't know how to update properly the article. Source — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.190.28.100 (talk • contribs) 09:21, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * IP, it's good that you didn't know how to add this to the article, as the statement you have just made would have been libel. All Flament could have confirmed is her claim that she was raped by Hamilton, not that "he is her rapist", which would require a judicial finding to be presented as a statement of fact (a finding that likely will not occur in light of Hamilton's reported suicide).  General Ization   Talk  00:13, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Request to delete libellous section about suspicion of rape
I find that a section in this biographical article about a living person, in casu the art photographer David Hamilton, should be deleted. The section on the subject of suspicion of rape does not adhere to the Wikipedia policy on biographies of living persons. Reasons: 1. No forensic investigation or lawsuit has yet taken place. 2. Subsequently there is no verdict. 3. The slandered person can rely on the legal principle of presumption of innocence. 4. No material evidence confirms the claims of Mrs. Flament. 5. It is not the task of journalists and mass media to judge about the guilt of a living person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wvdpanhuysen (talk • contribs) 22:01, 21 November 2016 (UTC)


 * You are right and that's why the article doesn't say that Hamilton is a rapist. But the claim of Flament can be mentioned, providing it is properly and reliably sourced. Which it is.  Yinta n  08:09, 26 November 2016 (UTC)


 * 1. He's no longer a living person at this point, so not protected by BLP or libel laws. 2. Even when he was, these allegations are widely reported and well sourced. As the user above says, reporting neutrally on the allegations isn't judging them to be true. Not mentioning them in this article would be doing a disservice to our readers by omitting important information. Robofish (talk) 12:02, 26 November 2016 (UTC)


 * BLP applies to persons who are recently dead, especially on contentious matters. The request to remove all reference to these charges may not be reasonable, but a case can be made that there is too much scandal in the article and that it is out of balance. Figureofnine (talk • contribs) 15:58, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The OP did not show what part of WP:BLP supports removal. A part that supports retention is in the section WP:BLP, "If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article..."
 * For guidance about how to treat a recent scandal for a person who has had a long career, the first article on such a person that came to mind was the one on Bill Cosby. It was astounding that it was given so much attention that there was a huge spinoff article Bill Cosby sexual assault allegations. --Bob K31416 (talk) 22:04, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * "Well documented" is the issue here. Figureofnine (talk • contribs) 15:48, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Please note that I wrote "Request to delete libellous section" on the 21st of November 2016, that is four days before David Hamilton died. Out of balance of the article was one of my reasons to write it.Wvdpanhuysen (talk) 21:03, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

"15 minutes of Fame" vs "Quarter of an Hour"
There are sources that quote Hamilton as saying: "15 minutes of fame" and others as saying: "quarter of an hour". Due to the reversions by editors finding different sources to back each rv; I thought it best to start the conversation here. Please keep in mind that regardless of Hamilton's UK affiliation, he spoke with the AFP Agence France-Presse on Tuesday here:. This might shed light on the fact that if he did indeed speak with the AFP, he may have spoke in French, not English. The translation for "quarter of an hour" may have in fact been "15 minutes of fame" in the original French. Regardless of what he said in French, the over-whelming majority of sources are quoting him as saying: "15 minutes of fame":, , , , etc, etc ... as opposed to a few: , , (which are very unreliable). Thoughts? Maineartists (talk) 16:35, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Thought you might be interested. Maineartists (talk) 16:41, 26 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I am. Thanks for finding more sources. Problem is that we have reliable sources contradicting eachother (Telegraph vs The Guardian, for example) so it's going to be very difficult to find out what he literally said. The "15 minutes" sounds more logical to me, since that is the usual phrase, but maybe it got lost in translation somewhere. We'll probably never know for sure. Anyway, my money is on "15 minutes" but I'm not going to start an edit war about it  Yinta n   16:55, 26 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes. However, The Guardian and Telegraph merely pick up the story from the Associated Presses (regarding quotes). In this case, Hamilton spoke with Agence France-Presse directly, not the sources cited. The definitive source should be the AFP. Maineartists (talk) 17:20, 26 November 2016 (UTC)


 * «L'instigatrice de ce lynchage médiatique cherche son dernier quart d'heure de gloire. Par la diffamation. Je déposerai plusieurs plaintes dans les jours à venir» is the correct original quotation made by Agence France Press. See for instance. At the end, no clear justice action was introduced . Gabuzomeuh (talk) 16:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you. The correct translation from the French therefore is: (The instigator of this media lynching is searching [for their] quarter of an hour of glory. So it would seem that other publications freely extended that to the original Warhol quote in English. Maineartists (talk) 17:24, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Bilitis
We seem to mention the film Bilitis rather suddenly and with little context. It's almost as if we think the reader already knows what it is and where it fits in. Has the article lost a former chunk which used to introduce his film directing? Does it need such a chunk, perhaps? 213.205.251.14 (talk) 19:26, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * We already have an article on the film: Bilitis (film). If you can find other content that details his role as director of this film, please add it.  General Ization   Talk   19:45, 26 November 2016 (UTC)