Talk:David Harding (financier)

Speedy deletion
The article clearly states why the subject is notable. Hence CSD A7 does not apply. IN fact, the subject is notable for other reasons too, which will not doubt be added in due course. Stephen B Streater (talk) 20:42, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops - edits must have clashed without me noticing. Stephen B Streater (talk) 20:45, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Proposed article expansion
This article has remained essentially a stub for the two years of its existence, but it certainly could be much better. So, I aim to help with that. I've researched and assembled a substantially more complete article about Mr. Harding, and it's available for review here: User:WWB Too/David Harding (finance)

An important point of disclosure: I do so at the behest of Winton Capital Management, which Mr. Harding leads, just as I did with the Winton Capital article. As with that article, I would appreciate it very much if another editor could review my draft and offer suggestions and / or support for copying my version into place. This new version contains all of the same information and then plenty more, in line with WP:BLP, WP:MOSBIO and all relevant guidelines. I also seek to change the disambiguation from "(mathematician)" to "(finance)" per WP:DISAMBIG, and because it's a little more germane.

I hope you will agree this is a better version, and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask, either here or on my Talk page. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 17:49, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, the move is already done. In a few minutes I will check your new draft and if it is okay, I will "move it". mabdul 11:39, 23 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Sounds great. I'll be near-ish the computer most of today, so I'm happy to answer any questions if need be. Cheers, WWB Too (talk) 14:32, 23 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay I went ahead and "merged" the two articles. Great work, sorry for the delay! As you can see, I tagged the lead two times with [citation needed] and I want a small clarification what Sabre is (a wikilink is ok, even a redlink if that company(?) has no wikipedia article), since I don't know it. mabdul 17:04, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Updates for this article
Greetings; as one will see in the discussion above, I was involved in expanding this article in late 2011 on behalf of David Harding's company, Winton Capital Management. Recently, Winton has asked me to help facilitate some updates to this article to reflect recent events. I am looking for an editor to review and implement the following suggestion, assuming there is consensus for them. Because of my paid COI, I will not be editing this article directly.
 * David Harding's position at Winton has changed since this article was last updated. I would like to suggest that the second sentence of the first paragraph of the Winton Capital Management section be replaced with the following:


 * I have also prepared an expanded version of the final paragraph (currently only one sentence) of the Winton Capital Management section based on recent articles about David Harding's tax payments; please note the new material is highlighted in yellow immediately below, while the paragraph's full text (including the existing sentence) appears in the markup below it:

I hope someone is interested in helping with these two requests. Also, just a heads up, I am currently working on some additional revisions to this article to correct a few typos I've spotted and to address the tags in the introduction. I'll be presenting that here after the above is resolved. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 17:10, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi, yes I can help out. I'll go back through you notes and review the source info.-- CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 06:58, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * 1. Regarding: "As of 2013 he is the president and majority owner." -- The article doesn't say that he's majority owner, nor that he was president as of 2013.
 * So, I worded the first sentence of the intro: David Winton Harding is a British businessman, founder and president of Winton Capital Management.
 * And, added to the Winston Capital Management Section: In 2011 Harding was the the founder, chairman and head of research of Winton Capital Management.
 * The next sentence in that section: By April 2013, he was made president of the organization. -- CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 07:27, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * 2. Regarding: In September 2012, Harding was listed at number one on The Independent's list of "Britain's biggest taxpayers" -- the article does have him listed as #1, but that seems to be based upon his income, not that he was the number 1 biggest taxpayer (although that seems entirely likely). Because the list did not have an introductory statement that the order on the list was based upon the amount of paid taxes - and the blurb about Harding and others only mentioned income, I think it would be a more accurate reflection of the article information to say that he was on the list of "Britain's biggest taxpayers" and readers can refer to the article and make their own judgment.-- CaroleHenson   ( talk ) 07:47, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * 3. Regarding: and received favourable media coverage for revealing that he had paid £34 million in tax on his £87m income. - Within an intention of being objective and letting readers sort out the news, I just reworded that slightly - removing the part about receiving favourable media coverage. Instead: Within 6 days, Harding revealed that "he was paying £34 million in tax on his £87m income."
 * Hi Carole, thanks much for taking a look at these. I'm generally fine with the changes you made in the article and have just a couple of suggested modifications, which I'll explain below:
 * 1. First, regarding the ranking from The Independent, the tagline of the article is "Britain's biggest taxpayers" and then Mr. Harding is listed at number 1, which I feel is fairly unambiguous in support of a statement that he was ranked first by The Independent. If you think an additional source is would be helpful to clarify, then this separate article, also from The Independent, states "The Independent's tax list is headed by David Harding, the Cambridge-educated physicist who founded Winton Capital, the world's largest hedge fund..."
 * 2. The change in the article lede looks fine, but in the Winton Capital Management section, I'd like to suggest that the line "As of 2011 he is the chairman and head of research, and the majority owner" be replaced entirely, since the sources there are actually from 2007 and 2008. The most recent source I have for him being the majority owner is from January 2012, so here's what I think this sentence should say:
 * As of 2012 he was the firm's majority owner, and is its president.
 * The new line "As of April 2013, he became the organization's president" isn't quite right—while the source I provided is from April 2013 to show that he is now the firm's president, it doesn't say that he had just taken on that role, and I believe that he became president earlier than April. I think it would be best to remove this and just include the above proposed sentence.
 * If these changes seem reasonable, would you be able to update the article? Also, I mentioned above that where there are two citation needed tags in the introduction, the details are actually included in the article, so I believe these can be removed. Would you mind making that edit, too? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 18:16, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed, changes made. Cheers!-- CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 18:47, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Very cool, thank you! WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 20:41, 7 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Carole, I just realized that the Winton Capital Management section still includes the following statement: "As of 2011 he is the chairman and head of research, and the majority owner." Problem is, the sources given for this sentence are from 2008 and 2007, so that can't be so. Meanwhile, the information is also repeated later in the section—in the penultimate paragraph this information is given, supported by an appropriate source from 2011. Would you mind removing this first sentence? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 15:45, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

✅. I have had an inkling feeling that there might be more edits needed. It seems like you're doing a review of the article to previously used source material, which sounds like a great idea!-- CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 19:18, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

A few more suggestions
Now that the tags were resolved following the above discussion, I have just a few minor changes to follow up with. The remaining suggestions are to fix typos or slightly alter the text for clarity. I'm open to discussing any of these, if there's a difference of views:
 * 1) The first sentence of the Education and career section contains an unnecessary comma. I would suggest removing the first comma found following the word "physics".
 * 2) In the final sentence of this same section, I would suggest adding in "a futures brokerage" before Johnson Matthey & Wallace to explain what this company was.
 * 3) In the second sentence of the Investment management section it should be clarified that Harding became head of Man's Quantitative Research Division, not AHL's.
 * 4) In the Winton Capital Management section I suggest adding in "investment management firm" in the very first sentence before "Winton Capital Management". Also the comma at the end of this sentence should be replaced with a period.
 * 5) The second paragraph of this section begins "The firm..." however "firm" should be replaced with "fund". The firm and the fund are not the same thing and this sentence is referring to the Winton Futures Fund which was launched in 1997 with $1.6 million in assets. It was not Winton Capital that was launched with these assets.

These are all of the suggestions I have for this article. Again, I'm happy to answer any questions about what I've presented here. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 20:50, 7 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Comments:
 * If you find a citation where I can view the source info, I'll put it in. Is it a tad redundant, based upon his position?
 * I think you meant 3rd sentence of the 2nd paragraph of the Investment management section. I understand, I interpreted "its" to mean AHL. I cannot read the source information. Can you either provide a link to the source info - or give me a link that says that he was made head of "Man's..."?
 * ✅. Cheers!-- CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 22:31, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and I like your replies format. I'll see what I can find for publicly available sources, or quote, and see what you thin. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 01:09, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅. Cheers!-- CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 22:31, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and I like your replies format. I'll see what I can find for publicly available sources, or quote, and see what you thin. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 01:09, 8 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Carole, I've had a chance to look into your two questions I think the following will be helpful regarding the two open questions:
 * For the clarification of the company Johnson Matthey & Wallace: I was able to find this American Metal Market source from 1986 which describes the company as a "futures brokerage" subsidiary, however if you still feel this is too redundant I am OK with leaving the sentence as is.
 * For the clarification of which firm Harding was head of the Quantitative Research Division: Yes, you are correct. I had meant the 2nd paragraph, not sentence as I mistakenly wrote. I was able to find the full text of the FOW source. Does that link work for you? In the article it says:
 * ''He then headed a unit called Man Quantitive Research that was seperate [sic] from AHL. However, he soon realised the partnership was not as friutful [sic] as it once was and so left to set up Winton.
 * Let me know if you have any further questions? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 20:28, 11 June 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅ If you have any more additions, do you mind formatting the citation information? That was really helpful! Cheers.-- CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 22:42, 14 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks Carole, these changes look great to me. I just noticed one last thing that needs to be fixed in the article: in the introduction AHL is called Adams, Harding and Lueck, however, the firm's correct name (as used later in the article) is Adam, Harding and Lueck. Would you be able to update this for me? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 15:01, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Sure, done.-- CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 18:16, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Terrific, thanks. And I've just marked the request-edit template as "answered". WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 16:46, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Great! My pleasure, great working with you!-- CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 18:04, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Looking for help with a few small updates
Greetings again, as editors will see from the above discussions, I have been involved in updating this page off and on for several years now. It has been nearly a year since I was last here and, as it appears that the article has only been updated a handful of times since, I have a few quick updates to suggest. As with all of my previous requests, I am presenting these suggestions on behalf of David Harding's company, Winton Capital Management, and because of this financial COI will abstain from making any edits to the page myself.

Here are the updates I suggest:

Change to Harding's title
As of earlier this year David Harding is no longer president of Winton but is the company's executive chairman and CEO. This Wall Street Journal article verifies this information. Can the information about Harding's role at Winton be updated in the introduction and the last sentence of the Winton Capital Management section?

I've gone ahead and prepared the citation for this source so this update is easier to make.

Rich List 2014
The following suggestions I have are based on The Sunday Times' recently published Rich List 2014 and, as the source is behind a paywall, I'll paste below the relevant text from his entry for other editors to see.


 * 2014 Rank: 131 Wealth: £750m £50m  Source of wealth: Hedge fund
 * A Cambridge physicist, Harding, 52, launched Winton Capital hedge fund in 1997. Profits at the London-based operation fell sharply to £78.8m on £193m turnover in 2012. It had a better 2013 and its flagship fund, Winton Futures, was up 9.4%. Harding plans to hire 100 staff this year and open five funds, with new offices in New York, Tokyo and Sydney. His 56% stake in the business is worth £560m. Since 2006, he has received £388m in dividends and salaries. The David and Claudia Harding Foundation gave £5.5m last year with two principal beneficiaries: the Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge receiving £4m (part of a £20m commitment to fund the Winton Programme for the Physics of Sustainability) with the Francis Crick Institute in London getting £1.25m for cancer research (again, part of a more substantial commitment of £5m).

Based on this source, I'd like to clarify that the donation to the Cavendish Laboratory mentioned in the second paragraph of the Philanthropy section was provided for by Harding's personal foundation, the David and Claudia Harding foundation. I would also like to add to the section that this same foundation has also pledged money to the Francis Crick Institute in London to provide for cancer research.

Here is my suggested wording, highlighted, and the markup, with the highlighting removed, if these changes are acceptable to others. (I have added in the Rich List source which appears as reference 1 in the reference list below.)

Lastly, I'd like to suggest updating this article to note that Harding was ranked at number 131 on the 2014 Rich List, replacing the information about his placement on 2010's list which is already in the article. This information is currently mentioned in the third paragraph of the Winton Capital Management section. This ref tag could be used to support the edit, so long as the above update, which contains the long form of the citation, is made.

Thanks for reviewing my request and please let me know if you have any questions about the above. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:26, 22 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Changes made. Tdslk (talk) 20:41, 6 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Tdslk, thanks for making the updates based on the 2014 Rich List. Would you also be willing to make the updates to the introduction and the Winton Capital Management section to correct David Harding's title as he is no longer the president of Winton? The specific details, including the formatted citation is above. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 22:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Tdslk (talk) 22:46, 10 June 2014 (UTC)


 * So very close here but I noticed that the article still states that Harding is president as of 2013.


 * What do you think about removing and as of 2013 is its president.[2] from the last paragraph of the Winton Capital Management section? Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 15:43, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason why the fact should be removed entirely? What if the sentence were to be changed to something like, "In 2013 (2014?) his position in Winston Management shifted from president to executive chairman and CEO" (or whatever the job/title change was, exactly)? Also, I notice one more thing that should be updated in the article: the average annual returns only go through 2009. Do you know what that number is now? Tdslk (talk) 17:04, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

No, certainly no reason for it to be removed entirely. How about the following?

As for your question about the average annual returns, let me check with my contact at Winton and see if they know of a source that would allow us to update this information. I'll get back to you. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 22:54, 12 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi again, Tdslk. I've heard back from my contact at Winton and I have a source to share with the updated figure you asked about. If you look to the bottom of this Risk.net article you will see a list of "Fund facts" which lists the annualized (or annualised) return at 14.83% as of 31 May 2013. I believe this should work to update the figure from 2009. I've gone ahead and prepared the citation for you if you want to go ahead and make this change as well as the one I suggested above to revise the language about Harding's time as president of Winton.




 * I appreciate the help. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 17:43, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Done and done. Tdslk (talk) 03:30, 20 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks Tdslk. I've closed the request edit tag at the top as I have no more requests at this time. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 18:23, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Two small additions
Hello there, any editors watching this page can see from above discussions that I've previously proposed some edits and updates to this article from time-to-time. Once again, I have a couple of small edits that I'd like to request. As with my past suggestions here, I am making these requests on behalf of Winton Capital Management, David Harding's company, and will not make any edits to the article myself because of this financial COI.

There are two new additions that I would like to suggest:
 * A new sentence regarding Harding's induction into the Hedge Fund Hall of Fame to add to the end of the final paragraph under Winton Capital Management
 * A new (short) paragraph on his foundation's donation to the Science Museum in London to create a gallery of mathematics, to be added to the end of Philanthropy

Here's my proposed wording and markup for the first:

And for the second:

If these two additions seem reasonable, please can editors add them into the article? Thanks for reviewing these requested updates. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 19:55, 1 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I added these in modified form. I fit the Hall of Fame in with the other mention of Alpha magazine. I only added the first sentence about the museum, since the rest of the details struck me as a bit tangential to the article. Tdslk (talk) 00:15, 14 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Tdslk, thanks for making those edits. I understand about leaving off some of the details from the museum; I thought it was interesting stuff, but I can see what you mean. That said, would you be willing to reconsider including the second sentence, about it being the largest individual donation to the museum? That much I do think reflects more on Mr. Harding than the rest of my suggested paragraph. Let me know when you get a chance? WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 22:06, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
 * That seems like reasonable context and is supported by the sources. Done. Tdslk (talk) 22:54, 16 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Following up, belatedly, to say this request is ✅. WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 16:49, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

2016 updates for this article
Hi there, I am a colleague of, who was active on this page from 2011-2014 on behalf of Winton Capital Management, David Harding's firm. Like him, I am here to suggest updates to the article as part of my work at Beutler Ink, on behalf of Mr. Harding (working via Robin Eggar of MBD Communications, who was previously Winton's Director of Communications). Due to my financial conflict of interest, I will not be editing the article myself. I ask for editors here to review any changes that I propose and make them if they seem OK.

To help reviewers work through the various updates, below I've provided the article sections in full and shown the changes in color-coded text. Updated text appears in green and text that should be removed appears in red.

Infobox and introduction

First, for the infobox, I've uploaded a new photo to Commons which can be accessed here. This image is a recent profile shot of Harding and clearer and higher res than the current used image.

Additionally, Harding's net worth can be updated to GB£1.15bn based on the latest Sunday Times Rich List. I've prepared a citation for this:

Second, for the introduction, I'm seeking to remove "executive chairman", as he no longer holds that title, and add a sentence about his roles with the Britain Stronger in Europe movement:

Winton Capital Management

Here I'm seeking a few minor updates to text to clarify information based on sourcing, and updates for various rankings and financials:

Other roles

I'm suggesting the addition of a new section titled Other roles that can be placed into the article wherever is most appropriate, so that there is a more natural place to include details about his involvement with the Britain Stronger in Europe campaign. This is a political movement, so doesn't fit with the existing sections focusing on his work at Winton or his philanthropy. Here's what I propose:

Personal

Within the current Personal section, Harding's children and relationships are described incorrectly. Only one of his sons is his ex-wife's child. Additionally, Harding now has another child. To correct this, while maintaining the privacy of the children and their mothers, I'd like to suggest the following (supported by new sourcing):

Throughout the above updates, I've also made some adjustments to the sourcing to correct the existing citation errors. Please let me know if you have questions about any of the changes I'm proposing or feedback. Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 17:01, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Pinging Tdslk and CaroleHenson who have reviewed requests for this article previously and therefore have some background here, can either of you assist? Especially with the request regarding the family details? Thanks, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 15:42, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * All of these changes seem reasonable and I have gone ahead and made them. Thank you for doing this the right way, and I am sorry that you had to wait so long for them to happen. Tdslk (talk) 16:54, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much, Tdslk! Would it be possible for you to also add in the new photo of Mr. Harding? You can find that here. Also, I realize that my markup above for the Winton Capital section omitted the paragraph breaks and had a stray bit of formatting, I've fixed that now and wonder if you would mind updating? Thanks again, really appreciate your help! 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 18:33, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I've made the requested formatting and paragraph changes. Tdslk (talk) 18:36, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Many apologies for missing this til now, Tdslk and thank you so much! 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 21:14, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Image
Thanks to JVRKPRASAD, the image in the article has been updated. Really appreciate your help. Would you mind removing the caption below the image as this is no longer correct? Thanks so much, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 20:01, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
 * 16912 Rhiannon, Removed caption, sir. J.V.R.K. PRASAD 14:05, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Somehow I totally missed replying here J.V.R.K. PRASAD, I am so sorry. Thanks for making this edit! 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 21:13, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Proposed Article Revisions
Hello to everyone who is part of the Wikipedia community and involved with this page. I would like to propose some changes to this article about David Harding. In advance, I must acknowledge my conflict of interest as I am an employee of David Harding's Company. I am sensitive to the fact that Wikipedia pages must maintain a NPV. That said, the changes that I am proposing are objective and I am happy to discuss them in advance.


 * In the last sentence of the first paragraph, should we change "As of 2015, he is the joint-treasurer of Britain Stronger in Europe and chairman of the finance committee" to "In 2015, he was...", as this campaign is clearly over?
 * In the last sentence in the 'Winton Group' section, it says "As of 2012 he was the firm's majority owner" and "as of 2015, he was the CEO" Can these be updated to 2018?
 * In the very last sentence of the article, can we please update it to note that David has five children?

Many thanks. Sean.Bernard (talk) 10:04, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Just over one year ago you implemented a series of edit requests (1), (2), (3), (4) made at the Bank of New York Mellon article, a company for which you have not declared a financial connection. Those edit requests you answered were made by the same group of editors who have declared a financial connection to the company which employs you, the Winton Group. From a distance this appears to have been a convenient, if albeit, short-lived arraingement whereby editors paid by your company to make changes to its Wikipedia article have their edit requests from one client approved and implemented by the employee of another client. Are you able to shed any additional light on this arraingement — specifically, are there any other financial connections that need to be declared here, or at the Bank of New York Mellon article? Please advise.  Spintendo   15:27, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi Spintendo. For clarification, I have no financial connection to the Bank of New York Mellon. If you are referring to Beutler Ink, there is no current connection between Winton and Beutler Ink. Personally, I have never worked with them nor has anyone who currently works at Winton. I appreciate your desire in ensuring objective entry updates to Wikipedia. Let me know if there's any other information I can provide. I look forward to working with you to update this page. Sean.Bernard (talk) 17:28, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Spintendo and Sean.Bernard, I still had this page on my watchlist and saw this discussion, so I wanted to pop in to clarify: Beutler Ink has not worked with or had any connection (financial or otherwise) with Winton since 2016 when I last posted here. Our sole point of contact at Winton had left the company in fall 2016, and we've had no contact with the company at all since then. Danny, whose requests Sean.Bernard answered back in 2017, was not aware of the previous connection with Winton. We did not have any kind of arrangement with Winton nor with Sean.Bernard to make those edits. Typically, we try hard to avoid other editors with conflicts of interest and definitely don't actively reach out if we're aware of one. Obviously it's not ideal if someone with a COI of their own responds to an edit request (maybe a note about that should be added to the request template? -- though I was trying to think if an editor with a disclosed COI had ever responded to me or someone else from our team before and can't think of an example), so if you wanted to take a look at those changes and review them for neutrality that seems totally reasonable. Thanks. 16912 Rhiannon (Talk &middot; COI) 19:57, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you both for your clarifications on this, it's much appreciated.  Spintendo   23:45, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Reply 29-NOV-2018
 Spintendo   23:45, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Reference for the change I did in the article: He graduated from Natural Sciences Reference: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/career/university-of-cambridge-given-record-£100m-donation-by-british-billionaire-to-help-attract-students/ar-BBTbi2L?ocid=spartanntp — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.81.145 (talk) 17:22, 6 February 2019 (UTC)