Talk:David Itkin

Not Self-edited
An edit summary suggests that the subject of the article has edited it. He hasn't. I am David H. Itkin, born 6/27/62. I am no relation to the David Itkin who is the subject of this article. I have, however, followed his career ever since I heard of him. I created this stub of an article. David in DC (talk) 19:36, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * My apologies.70.20.20.2 (talk) 00:53, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Prize nominations
{| class="collapsible collapsed" style="width:100%;font-size:88%;text-align: left; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em;" ! style="background-color: #f2dfce;" | This discussion has been collapsed. Here are a number of reliable sources that say the two pieces were nominated for the Pulitzer Prize, or that one or the other was, or that Itkin has been twice nominated for the Pulitzer Prize:, , , , , , , , , David in DC (talk) 19:51, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
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 * I've just reviewed the Pulitzer Prize official web page. The compositions were nominated for the Pulitzer Prize, as sourced above.  They were not "nominated finalists", a more select group of compositions.  It is accurate to describe Itkin as having been nominated for the Prize for the two pieces.  It would not be accurate to say he was a nominated finalist for the Prize.  Please do not delete the reference again.  It is accurate and well-sourced. Thanks.David in DC (talk) 20:19, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It is not correct that Mr. Itkin has been nominated for a Pulitzer. He was not. He was an entrant, nothing more. It is a false claim. None of your citations qualifies as a reliable source; if you examine them, you'll see that each of them is merely a recitation of Mr. Itkin's handout biography. All of the citations cited are merely his PR material in which he makes the false claim. As you may know, only the jury can nominate someone for a Pulitzer. Usually just three nominees a year per category. Then the board chooses the winners. Anyone else is not a nominee, but an entrant. If he was nominated, his name would be found on the Pulitzer Web site. You can search for his name here: http://www.pulitzer.org/. It appears from the record that he may be a Pulitzer entrant, not a nominee. That is, he may have entered, or the publisher entered his work (anyone can do that, for $50), and wasn't chosen by the jury as a nominee, nor by the board as a winner. To claim to be a Pulitzer nominee, when you're only an entrant, is to mislead the public. An Academy Awards nominee is one of the final few. The Pulitzers work the same way, as described by the FAQ on the Pulitzer Web site. Having your publisher send in your stories or book no more makes you a Pulitzer nominee than having your movie studio send in your film makes you an Academy Award nominee. If he wants to lead off his press materials with "Pulitzer Prize entrant," that would be accurate. Bottom line: What the Pulitzer board calls "nominated finalists," the world calls "nominees," and he wasn't one; he's an entrant; to call yourself a Pulitzer nominee, when all it means is that you or your publisher entered you in a contest where your work went nowhere, is not an honor, not a claim to notability, just plain old fakery. If you research the question, you'll see that this is not my reading of the Pulitzer process; many others have been called out publicly for posing as Pulitzer nominees. It happens about once a week. See, for example, a discussion of this issue in The New York Times, here: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9404E4DE1538F93BA15754C0A9649C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=3 as well as http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/healthmindandbody/story/0,,2287331,00.html and http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=878 and http://freedomsfire.blogspot.com/2006/06/pulitzer-prize-nominees-for-truth.html and http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000609;p=2 and http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/2/165515/6874 . Finally, for comparison, see the Wikipedia biography of photographer David Leeson -- one of many cited at random; he is in fact a Pulitzer nominee; you can find his name by searching the Pulitzer Web site; his claim is genuine; the claims of those who pretend to be nominees, when they are not, draws honor from those genuine nominees.  70.20.20.2 (talk) 00:53, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion
Hello, a third opinion was requested on this. After reading through the pulitzer.org FAQ section, I must say I mostly agree with User:70.20.20.2 here. Even though the words entrant and nominee are similar in use. The pulitzer.org FAQ on terminology makes a clear distinction between 1) A Pulitzer Prize Winner, 2) Nominated Finalists, and 3) Work submitted as entry or submission.1 The third seems to be the case for David Itkin, it would be most accurate to follow the Pulitzer terminology, and describe him as either an entry or submission. But for that to appear in the article, there must be a reliable source. Those that claim he was a nominee are challenged by the pulitzer.org database itself returning "Sorry - we didn't find anything matching your term(s)." when doing a search for Itkin. =Species8473=  (talk) 13:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reality check. I disgree with original research trumping reliable sources here, but I'm clearly alone on this. David in DC (talk) 15:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have just sent an inquiry to The Pulitzer Price on this. =Species8473=  (talk) 17:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but please don't feel the obligation to do so on my account. I fully accept the reality check provided by your third opinion.David in DC (talk) 18:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have an e-mail from pulitzer, they didn't go into David Itkin specifically. But said only pieces that have been selected as finalists by the jury should be described as "nominated finalists". While work submitted for consideration, but never selected, should be called an entry. =Species8473=  (talk) 18:08, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

DAVID ITKIN (ARTICLE SUBJECT) OPINION. This is David Itkin (of this article) writing. I'm not sure why this is even interesting to anyone, or worth so much of anyone's time, but please let me clear up this subject. The opinion that "nominated" is incorrect is, itself, correct. The text in my previous bio (repeated in Wikipedia) that read, "twice nominated for the Pulitzer Prize" was inserted by a person in charge of PR at the Arkansas Symphony, against my objections. As soon as I could gracefully do so, I had the text removed from Arkansas', and other orchestras', programs, but by that point it was floating around the net (including Wikipedia) and impossible to remove from every source. The correct information is, in fact, that I was twice "proposed" or "entered" for Pulitzer consideration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.26.121.242 (talk) 17:18, 23 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.26.121.242 (talk) 17:20, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Source for Eastman School alumni category
is here David in DC (talk) 01:24, 8 July 2008 (UTC)