Talk:David Nelson (Utah activist)

Untitled
I suggest removing the WP:Notability warning because I read the notability guidelines and compared them to the article. The guidelines expect that "[i]f a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article." In the case of the article, 36 references and some external links (inline and footnoted) were included. I deleted a few references and added several more for a total of 73. Most WP articles including other gay and Utah biographies offer far fewer references. I verified the references (including those from the Deseret News and subscription-based The Salt Lake Tribune archives) at third-party sites and indexes (NewsBank.com archives) as well as at local libraries, and found them to be correct and from reliable sources as cited. With a little more searching, I found hundreds of references which weren't included in the article (because of redundancy and article-length limits). Whether the article is useful for readers is up to each person, but the notability of the subject and the reliability of reference sources more than meets the expectations of Wikipedia guidelines in every way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.127.249.214 (talk) 16:55, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Untitled
Some of the Recognition references don't have citations and need verification research. I suggest deleting the references that don't have citations unless citations can be found. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.202.67.235 (talk) 16:28, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Deleted the Recognition references that don't have citations according to previous suggestion
I researched the Recognition references that don't have citations and found none. I deleted the references according to the previous suggestion to delete 'the references that don't have citations unless citations can be found.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.195.197.167 (talk) 22:15, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Template parameters
Uncommon and unused HTML Infobox- and reference-template parameters in this article have been deleted to reduce HTML size. Editors who would use deleted parameters should refer to the template pages for the correct HTML code and format.

Aspergers
He just recently came out as having aspergers: http://gaysaltlake.com/news/2014/12/18/lgbt-dems-25-years-utah/ It's just a remark at the end, but he has confirmed that's what he is doing with that comment.

Aspergers: Added
Verified link and added reference of Autism Spectrum Disorder to Personal paragraph according to the previous comment. Asperger syndrome was reclassified as ASD in 2013 according to the DSM-5. Some individuals with ASD continue to use the term “Aspie” as an affectionate term in describing themselves or others.

Lives with
I take issue with the "lives with" description. Saying he lives with Autism and other disabled states in Utah implies Autism is a roommate in his house. Autism isn't something you live with, it is defined by how we behave naturally and always have. It is inseparable from the person and it certainly isn't a roommate or relevant to locale. Andrea Carter (at your service &#124; my good deeds) 13:56, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

ASD terminology and "living with" diseases and disorders
The revision of August 20, 2015 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Nelson_(Utah_activist)&oldid=677065181 ), was correct and accurate because, while the BLP subject's physical disabilities are mentioned vaguely in referenced reports, they aren't particularly defined or notable (the term "disabilities" isn't as redundant as the phrase "multiple disabilities" and doesn't necessarily qualify to be linked to the WP article titled "Multiple disabilities"). The term "Autism Spectrum Disorder" (ASD) is currently the correct phrase in the United States to define the neurodevelopmental disorders known formerly as "Autistic Disorder," "Asperger's Disorder," "Childhood Disintegrative Disorder" and "Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Not Otherwise Specified." Interestingly, WP finds currently a certain notability about its BLP subjects with ASD (wherein such WP articles, specific diagnoses are separated into specific categories, thus showing a need to distinguish the subject's diagnosis).

The phrase "lives with" has been used by some disability activists for years to help define socially and politically that they aren't dead as a result of their disease or disorder, nor are they defined only by their diagnoses by "having" a disease or disorder in the same way that an individual would "have" HIV/AIDS or cancer. Furthermore, in this context (an obligatory "personal" paragraph in biographies), it combines the facts neatly that the subject has been diagnosed with ASD *and* lives in a Utah town. Yes, he would be described as an "autistic man," but in this case "lives with disabilities including Autism Spectrum Disorder in Millcreek, Utah" (even John Elder Robison's bio describes "his life with Asperger syndrome") works well based on all known facts.

Despite an obviously well-intended revision, there was no need to change the original text as was attempted in the edits of September 14, 2015 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Nelson_(Utah_activist)&oldid=680940097 and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Nelson_%28Utah_activist%29&oldid=680988516 ). Is the original text in this case so inaccurate or incorrect that it needed revision? I doubt it (considering the various literary conditions that the text attempted to satisfy) and suggest undoing the revisions.
 * Autism isn't like HIV/AIDS, cancer, or epilepsy. Autism is an inseparable part of who a person is. Who says "Joseph lives with maleness in Indianapolis?" Andrea Carter (at your service &#124; my good deeds) 23:38, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Original statement is best
Yeah, I support undoing the revision. It is simpler and much more accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.141.68.133 (talk) 17:37, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Removed unsourced material
According to the Wikipedia: Biographies of living persons policy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons ), "Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion. Users who persistently or egregiously violate this policy may be blocked from editing."

It appears that the revision of Sept. 14, 2015 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Nelson_%28Utah_activist%29&oldid=680988516 ), was published without any source material to prove the claim that the subject has "multiple disabilities" or its characteristics as described in the linked WP article and few medical definitions of the phrase. While two article sources suggest that the subject was "disabled" on Sept. 30, 2004 and showed "symptoms" of a physical disability on Sept. 12, 2005 prior to his sourced statement on Dec. 18, 2014 which described himself as "an Aspie" [Autism Spectrum Disorder for that time]), the sources are otherwise vague.

However, in the article image ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/David_Nelson_%28Utah_activist%29_in_2012.jpg ) and at least one other image published on Feb. 14, 2007 by a large daily newspaper, the subject is seen using a cane in his hand. There is also an LGBT blog which is cited several times as source material for the article. While not included specifically as source material, the blog entry for May 12, 2014 includes a May 2003 statement by an associate of the subject who described the subject as having "osteoporosis and osteoarthritis."

So, we are left with the facts that the subject had one or more physical disabilities long before his statement about having ASD in 2014. As a result of the unsourced claim that the subject has "multiple disabilities" and the few sources which suggest other disabilities, I have acted on the policy requirement to remove the unsourced material and replaced it with the generalized term "disabilities."

Sentence revised according to WP policies
In the discussion since Dec. 20, 2014, about the subject's autistic condition, some WP users at the article and its talk page have bandied around the terms "Aspie" (the subject's own sourced statement in reference to Asperger syndrome), "Aspergers," "Autism Spectrum Disorder" (the clinical definition since 2013) and now "autism." Within WP policies, this is a matter where fair and accurate terms, and non-pathologizing language, should be valued.

The WP article "Asperger syndrome" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome ) includes the statement that "Asperger syndrome … is an autism spectrum disorder...." The WP article "Autism spectrum" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum ) seems to agree with this statement.

However, the WP article "Autism" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism ) includes the statement that "This article is about the classic autistic disorder...." This statement appears, therefore, to discourage the current use of the word "autism" to describe either Asperger syndrome or autism spectrum except, perhaps, in general ways.

These statements suggest strongly that the subject's condition isn't about classic autistic disorder as the term "autism" suggests. Instead, the WP articles that are linked above appear to describe the subject's condition best as "autism spectrum."

For these reasons, I have revised the sentence in question to comport with the WP policies.2001:558:6008:3B:892F:5D37:51CD:7D19 (talk) 01:36, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

My ASD diagnosis
I'm David Nelson. I was screened with Autism Spectrum Disorder almost two years ago. I've since been diagnosed with it.

I believe in the right of self-identity and in the necessity of context. That includes person-first language sometimes and identity-first language other times. For me, it depends on which seems most correct. I have called myself Aspie, autistic, a person with autism, and having been screened or diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder.

I've read the few tortured descriptions here about my autism. I'd say simply that "I live with disabilities, and was diagnosed in 2015 with Autism Spectrum Disorder." Little else about me being autistic relates to the article. David Nelson 50.186.123.240 (talk) 20:03, 14 October 2015 (UTC)


 * To reflect this recent Talk Page statement, I have edited the sentence about the subject's autism. 2001:558:6008:3B:1D26:437E:145B:7EA3 (talk) 18:24, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

"Anyone can edit"
So I did. I am the subject. Instead of deleting, try fixing. Try understanding autism.174.23.147.58 (talk) 10:01, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Most of the changes were to media today, though I will review the article daily and update as needed. Still the subject.174.23.147.58 (talk) 14:01, 29 October 2020 (UTC)