Talk:David Watts Morgan/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Malleus Fatuorum 14:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Lead
 * "... earning him the nickname 'Dai Alphabet' in South Wales." In the very next sentence it's "south Wales"; which is it to be? Capitalised or not?
 * It's an awkward one, both are correct. South Wales is an area of Wales that includes Glamorgan and Monmouthshire plus the Beacons. The other 'south Wales' is an non-geographic location that just like any other location means the south of a particluar area. Which is why we have two quotes one with South Wales and the other with south Wales, both referenced and correct as written. The futher problem is that you can never tell when quoting someone which one they mean unless they are asked specifically, and that rarely happens. It's in the ear of the listener. We can change it all to south Wales, but one of the quotes will then be incorrect. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:06, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not following; neither is inside a quote. Malleus Fatuorum 19:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * "[straddling] the transition in south Wales miners' politics from Lib-Labism to socialism, but ... never fully representative of either" and "services in connection with recruiting in South Wales." Two quotes in the article using different variants. FruitMonkey (talk) 22:09, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That's fine, but I'm not talking about the quotes. The lead ends "... earning him the nickname "Dai Alphabet" in South Wales", which isn't a quote. The Trade unionism section has "By 1903 he was being talked of as a possible candidate for a south Wales parliamentary constituency", which also isn't a quote. Malleus Fatuorum 22:18, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If it's not a problem for you, it's not a problem for me. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * We seem to be talking across each other. It is a problem for me and I'd like it fixed. Malleus Fatuorum 00:27, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm really confused. The lede no longer has both south Wales and South Wales, but also even if they did both are correct in their own context. I don't know how to fix it. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm talking about consistency within the whole article, not just in the lead. Malleus Fatuorum 21:50, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no consistency, both are correct and both can be used. It just depends on the author and narrator. I can correct neither. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:38, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You are of course wrong, but if you fix everything else then I won't stick over this. Malleus Fatuorum 00:38, 20 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Early life
 * "Although qualified he never took on the role as a mining engineer, though it did aid him in his role as lead in several mine rescues and gave him a practical knowledge that informed his later political life." What does the "it" following the comma represent? Why didn't he become a mining engineer?
 * Replaced the 'it' with a more explicit phrase. There is no info of why he didn't become an engineer. Probably because a checkweight was a more important role that came with special perks and was an important 'political' position in the mines. He may have taken the classes to understand mines better and to become a mines rescuer. We can guess but there is no definitive answer. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:16, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Trade unionism
 * "From checkweighter Watts Morgan rose to the role of district miners' agent in 1898." You don't really "rise" to a role I don't think.
 * Correct, although there is a sort of rise to power as checkweight man was normally a path to political power and district agent often followed on from checkweighter, rise is not correct. Took, was given, became? FruitMonkey (talk) 22:05, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You could say something like "rose to the position of". Malleus Fatuorum 22:11, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Military service
 * "Despite the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography reporting Watts Morgan being promoted to lieutenant-colonel on 8 March 1919, his retirement from the forces, the London Gazette entry of May 1919 describes him as major." I can't make much sense of this. Is there something missing?


 * "This seems very strange. He retired from the army in 1919 and two years later received a promotion? Surely that can't be right?
 * It appears that he resigned his position in 1919, but when the Territorial Force (later that year the Territorial Army) reconstituted itself in February 1920 he signed on. His later promotions seem to come from a position in the TA. It is just we have no written proof of it as yet. The Army List has him as a rep for the Glamorgan Territorial Association which is a link to the TA, but this is just educated speculation. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Member of Parliament
 * "Watts Morgan was forced to contest his seat for the first time when he was challenged by Frederick William Heale, a managing director of a firm of London accountants." Why "a" managing director, which implies that this firm had more than one? It also implies that the accountancy firm was limited, which seems rather unlikely.
 * I'll remove the offending section, it doesn't add to the understanding of the article. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)


 * "It was a tight result for a Rhondda election; Heale lost by just over 3,000 votes. The 1923 election was a different affair, with Watts Morgan defeating Conservative candidate Alfred John Orchard by nearly 13,000 votes." Needs a citation.


 * "Although Watts Morgan was a socialist and trade unionist, he was also a strong anti-communist and opposed "the local men of Moscow", trade unionist who has embraced communism and who he saw as extremists." Seems to be something missing here.
 * Could you clarify please. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Verbs and subjects don't match: "men of Moscow" is plural, "trade unionist" is singular. Do you mean something like "trade unionists who embraced communism, which he regarded as extremism"? Malleus Fatuorum 21:50, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Blinded by my own writing. You are of course correct, 'trade unionists' is the phrase. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:42, 19 November 2010 (UTC)


 * References
 * Ref #28 needs a publisher and last accessdate.
 * Done FruitMonkey (talk) 18:25, 18 November 2010 (UTC)