Talk:Davidson College/Archive 1

Untitled
This entry had some real puffery:

"entertains a flawless reputation regionally, nationally, and internationally." "particular brand of liberal arts education that is hardly matched"

which I removed. It appeared to have been written by two people as the first paragraph claimed the school had 1600 students and later that there were 2000 students. The Davidson website says 1600 so I used that number. This article could still be improved.

-- Carax

Portions of this presentation are clearly overkill...

Davidson is certainly a very fine regional liberal arts college, but let's keep some perspective here... The college is strong academically, however, its departments offer little that can be considered as truly extraordinary, compared to the clearly elite liberal arts institutions. For example, it does not have programs that compare to the outstanding social science and history departments of a Williams or Amherst, or the superb natural science divisions that Wesleyan is so well known, or the globally recognized English literature offerings of Wellesley College. Davidson is also far behind in contributions to scientific research; well back of Wesleyan, Swarthmore, Williams and a fair number of other peer institutions.

In addition, the U.S. News rankings are terribly flawed and are best utilized as a VERY general reference guide. Davidson should not be using these imperfect listings as something that is "written in stone". The move now is to calculate "hierarchy" by combining the key elements of the two major ranking systems (U.S.News and Washington Monthly), but even this excercise will hardly produce a fully accurate and fair picture. Using the most important components of the two ranking methodologies currently yields a top liberal arts five of Wellesley, Amherst, Williams, Wesleyan and Swarthmore (not necessarily in that order). Six through ten would be Bowdoin, Haverford, Pomona, Carleton and Middlebury.

Anthropologique 13:05, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how your discussion Anthropologique relates to the article - there are no claims in the article that US News is the only ranking system available simply that Davidson is considered extremely strong based on this method that is the most commonly used (I note, by the way, that you don't provide a reference for your mentioned ranking system) - so I'm not sure that this comment belongs in the discussion section for this article.

Nevertheless, I think you're misguided in your point that Davidson doesn't have extraordinary departments. Davidson's PreMed program is easily considered one of (if not the) best liberal arts PreMed programs in the country. I believe it's Political Science department also would rank near the top.

-- Jeff

As regards the natural sciences, you should research the LAC National Science Foundation (NSF) grant statistics as well as those of the National Institute of Health (NIH). In the most recent NSF tables, Davidson, even though ranked in the top ten, is well behind Wesleyan (ranked first, by far) and also substantially below the other "Little Three" colleges (Amherst, Williams), as well as Mount Holyoke, Swarthmore, Smith, Carleton and Wellesley. Somewhat surprising, the only LAC that receives funding from the NIH is Wesleyan, reflecting its historical strength in biological research and PreMed programs. Davidson hardly has anything to be ashamed of, however, in any number of areas there are a few "faster guns."

Anthropologique 15:25, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Correction: Davidson is not among the top ten in NSF funding. However, it ranks 16th in scientific papers published by faculty.

I checked the scientific papers information and Wesleyan is first with Mount Holyoke a very distant second. Doesn't look like Wesleyan has any serious LAC competition in the natural and life sciences.

London Hawk 19:44, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Projected on-campus enrollment for Spring '06 is 1699, with ~100 enrolled students abroad in both Davidson-sponsored and other programs. The college is currently working to bring this number down due to housing considerations. The website says that Davidson is a college for 1600 students.

-- A Davidson Student

I'd like to see an expansion of the conferences that Davidson sports are actually in, since there are quite a few in obscure conferences, like the PFL, and strangely, the NorPac for field hockey. (Yes, the Northern Pacific Conference.) Does anyone know enough of them to add them? Also, folks, please sign contributions on talk pages with four tildes (~). --SQFreak 07:51, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Many of the users contributing to this page are simple trying to spin Davidson in the most positive light possible. I have removed certain parts of the page for NPOV reasons.

Elephant11 02:32, 27 March 2006 (UTC)Elephant11

Changing the claim that Davidson has the smallest enrollment of any Division I school to any Division I football school; Centenary's enrollment is smaller. JFMorse 14:28, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

1896 - Davidson X-rayProfessor Henry Louis Smith and three Medical College students take some of first, if not the first, X-ray photographs in the United States on January 12th and 13th, soon after getting a cable of Roentgen's X-rays in Germany. http://www.davidson.edu/administrative/library/archives/davidson_timeline.asp

Wdew (talk) 18:04, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Source #3 seems to be unavailable. Haven't changed it. Gprobins (talk) 13:17, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Changes needed to Notable Alumni section
It was really not very smart to segregate Politics (elected) and Politics and Activism (non-elected) in the above-referenced section. Then what do you do for someone who served in both capacities (e.g. Wyche Fowler)? I'll leave the decision to integrate these into one section simply called Politics to one of the articles principal authors.--Hokeman (talk) 16:20, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Stephen Curry & Woodrow Wilson
These two individuals did not graduate from Davidson College, and their inclusion is not merited under the Alumni section. Of course, these are two very notable people who attended Davidson; this is mentioned in the start of the paragraph. In fact, they are the only two mentioned, despite neither graduating. Until either is awarded a diploma, it's false to list them as alumni. Thus, they cannot be listed under alumni; sorry, that's reality. Obamafan70 (talk) 17:17, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry but "alumni" generally refers to people who attended an institution. If the section were labeled "graduates" then you'd have a point.  ElKevbo (talk) 17:22, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry but you are wrong. "Alumnus" means graduate. Here is what Princeton.edu says: http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=alumnus .... Until this definition changes or Stephen Curry gets his degree, there is no basis for his inclusion. Feel free to contact Princeton (where Woodrow Wilson is an alumnus) if you feel it should be changed.Obamafan70 (talk) 02:05, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Meriam-Webster defines alumnus as, "a person who has attended or has graduated from a particular school, college, or university;" that is, not just a graduate as stated without reference in previous posts.--Powerten (talk) 03:08, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Your attempt to keep the article sound, and to cite the dictionary and Princeton's website, is admirable. However, the wikipedia article guidelines for schools differs with you and is the ultimate authority in this matter. It states that, "Alumni to be included should meet Wikipedia notability criteria. All alumni meeting these criteria are to be included on an alumni list, regardless of how much time they have spent on a school roll, from one day to several years, and whether or not they graduated." Until this guideline is rewritten, I think it is appropriate to add President Wilson and Mr. Curry to the alumni list. If you wish to change Wikipedia Schools article guidelines you should contact that project's administrators. I will not revert edits at the moment to include the 2 aforementioned alumni in order to leave room for further comment on this board for a day or two. However, I believe this should settle the matter and cease the continued reversion battling.--Powerten (talk) 02:50, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Powerten is correct and that settles the debate (though I would hardly call 2 reverts a reversion battle).

An alumnus is a graduate only, but for operational WP practices, all individuals enrolled count as alumni.

This is not the space for a separate debate, but I point out that I find it curious that anyone who attended any school is now considered an alumnus. Very humorous, but it is the WP policy, apparently. I find this produces counterintuitive results....I've completed coursework at Oxford, John Hopkins, Dickinson, Colgate, Bucknell, and Florida, but I would never be tempted to assert myself as "an alumnus of any of those schools."
 * No, but if you attended these institutions full time as your exclusive or primary venue for education, you could consider yourself and would be considered an alumnus and in fact I receive information from the alumni associations of two prep schools I attended for years referring to me by my class year and seeking donations. Colleges do the same, including Harvard, which is proud to list Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg as alumni (and take their money).  I think I read somewhere that Harvard requires the successful completion of at least one semester full time for a person to be placed on the alumni rolls unless they are ordered "expunged" therefrom which is the product of an aggravated expulsion usually resulting from fraudulent admission.

As a result of this debate, I have included Mr. Curry and Mr. Wilson to various lists. Please send future posters here should the debate come up again. Obamafan70 (talk) 04:09, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, one more thing -- why don't you ask Stephen Curry if he is an alumnus? I'm pretty sure I read an article on the Golden State Warriors page about going back to Davidson after his NBA career to become an alumnus. Also, Davidson's Athletics Hall of Fame only allows "alumni", which is stated as degree earners. But again, these are non-sequitors. Obamafan70 (talk) 04:19, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Double listing alumni
Please do not double list alumni. Alumni are to be listed by their most prominent category, not every single one where they might possibly be listed. I deleted the double listing for both Woodrow Wilson and Tony Snow, leaving them both in Politics. Feel free to discuss, though, this seems like the only logical conclusion at the moment. Obamafan70 (talk) 07:14, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Questions concerning introduction
I reverted an edit (August 19-Npdoty) which deleted various statements about Davidson College. The cited reason was that it reflected "boosterism".....I interpret that to mean the article in its prior state did not advance a NPOV.

I included a citation from the College's website which should settle the matter. It is a fact that Davidson College has been ranked in the top ten by US News & World Report in at least 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and now 2010. No reasonable person would dispute that as consistency. In fact, I don't recall a single publication (Princeton Review, Barron's, etc.) that has not used the words "highly selective" in reference to Davidson. This sort of information is necessary to a reader, just as an article on Notre Dame would surely need to mention its numerous football championships and traditions. I assume good faith on the user's part, but I fail to see how calling Davidson College "highly selective" fails NPOV standards. It's pretty innocuous really; unlike say the following truthful but POV-advancing claim, "Davidson College is the best liberal arts college in the southeast." Obamafan70 (talk) 21:41, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your assuming good faith. For what it's worth, I didn't remove any content, just noted that in two cases some sort of reference was needed. Also, I would recommend finding a better source than the college itself: your link actually doesn't speak to USNWR rankings and secondary sources are preferred. I still believe that "highly selective" would benefit from a citation: the term by itself is vague (how selective is highly selective?), and it's not hard to find a citation that would provide both backing and precision. The boosterism I was referring to was the essay on WP:BOOSTER -- there are many more militant about these things than I am, but I think providing citations to secondary sources is a good way to avoid protracted debates over POV, which many other liberal arts college articles have been subject to. Npdoty (talk) 02:09, 21 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Npdoty, thanks for helping us understand your position better. I took the liberty of looking over some of your past edits and understand why you express concern over the use of rankings and the practice of self-referential selectivity citations. As a result of your comments, I am posting the following citation from US News & World Report which describes Davidson's admission as "most selective", which I guess is the highest category available in their demarcation. Here's the link:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/davidson-nc/davidson-college-2918 Obamafan70 (talk) 03:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Eating house?
Just what the hell is an eating house? From the context it would seem something more than just a cafeteria, but I am unfamiliar with the term. Wschart (talk) 18:52, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

They function as quasi-sororities. They have cooks for the women in them and organize service events, fundraisers and parties / social events. 21:51, 2 December 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timhud (talk • contribs)

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Honor Code
What does "The Honor Code extends beyond 'reviews,' essays, or research papers" mean? 81.155.219.195 (talk) 12:13, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Reverted IP editor's vandalism
An IP editor reverted three edits for Davidson graduates. They were of notable Davidson attendees, Vincent Foster and Confederate battle commanders, a general and a full colonel, the latter only 26 when he attained that rank. This looks like whitewashing to me...no censorship! Activist (talk) 19:30, 23 February 2019 (UTC)