Talk:Day of the Macedonian Uprising

The Macedonian nation, state and language are basically a result of Yugoslav communist policies
This sentence is well sourced. It says not that Macedonian nation, state and language are result only of Yugoslav communist policies, but basically of these policies that meets NPOV-criteria and fits with provided sources and citations, as well as with different articles agenda here as Macedonian nationalism, Ethnic Macedonians, Macedonian language, SR Macedonia, etc. Jingiby (talk) 14:53, 11 October 2019 (UTC)


 * The aim of Wikipedia is not to present one sided or controversial info. The historical veracity of this history inherited from the times of Communist Yugoslavia is rather doubtful. Bulgaria is threatening to block Northern Macedonia's candidacy at any moment because of this. I intend to restore partially the deleted text with some clarifications. Not to comment that the historical part of the information I presented is supported by academic sources. I ask editors who are unfamiliar with the problem to refrain from final edits. See also: Macedonian historiography. Thanks. Jingiby (talk) 17:31, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2022
This page is currently a stub, at least in the English version of it. Need to take the Macedonian version of it and translate it to English, and replace the current stub. I'm happy to do so, as I'm professionally fluent in both languages. Additionally, the page is also under attack from Bulgarian nationalist contributors, who want to push their nation's erroneous take on history. Bulgaria was an occupator not a liberator, committing heinous crimes upon the Macedonian people, such as sending the vast majority of the Jewish population to concentration camps to be killed, and countless other offenses. And yet the "Controversy" section of the page dominates by sheer size, belittling the contributions of those who died for their country. If the authors of this page want to spew their revisionist takes on history, they can do so on their own page, rather than leeching traffic off of this page for their political gain.

It's also clear that this section has been removed and re-added numerous times in the history of this page, so they are constantly attacking. This is straight up bullying, and should not be allowed on Wikipedia. Also, citing Bulgarian nationalist sources to prove a nationalist Bulgarian propaganda is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and a circular argument. The paragraph contains information that is clearly political in nature and has no direct relationship with the event being described. Burekcovek (talk) 21:44, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:55, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

NPOV
I think additional tweaks could be done for NPOV in the lead section and infobox. Since we aren't treating the claim that an "uprising" began on 11 October as indisputable, per the reliable sources, I think this should be made clear in the first sentence of the lead. It could be framed like this - "Day of the Macedonian Uprising is a public holiday in North Macedonia, commemorating what is considered there the symbolic beginning of the communist resistance against fascism during World War II in Yugoslav Macedonia on October 11." "Symbolic" can be dropped since it's excess and unnecessary. This could be made clear in the infobox too. Thus there's no need to italicize single words for something that is clearly disputed, especially by reliable sources.

As for the latest change in the lead section, there doesn't appear to be a source about the Yugoslav historiography. This should be directly supported by a source. StephenMacky1 (talk) 11:06, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I support this idea. Jingiby (talk) 13:15, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Per Livanos: "When the minister of war of the Fatherland Front government, Damyan Velchev, visited the liberated Macedonia in late 1944, he was not allowed to enter Skopje, for — as the Partisans  told  him — ‘4  years  of  Bulgarian  occupation  had  done more harm than 20 years of Serbian oppression’. Livanos has cited a primary source too: FO 371/48137, R498, dated 5/12/1944.Jingiby (talk) 21:35, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * And Heraclides states that this quote describes the feelings of Macedonians, who had traded 'serbianisation for bulgarianisation'. not sure what the issue is here. -- Local hero talk 23:44, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Heraclides's book covers a long period of time, and he frequently quotes Livanios, while Livanios' book concentrates on a short period of time and is based on many primary sources of the military intelligence, as is the case here. So I offer this quote, which is controversial as to when and who said it, to drop. Jingiby (talk) 04:29, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * This section is titled "Historical overview". An important part of this overview is that "an increasing number of inhabitants came to regard the Bulgarians as no better than the Serbs". This quote you seek to keep from the article is presented by Heraclides because it accurately captures the sentiments of many Macedonians during the Bulgarian occupation. -- Local hero talk 04:33, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * OK. Jingiby (talk) 07:33, 23 January 2023 (UTC)