Talk:Deșteaptă-te, române!

Untitled
Translation please? - Montr&eacute;alais

This article is redundant with Desteaptate, romane. olivier 09:02 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)

Not anymore ^_^ - Montr&eacute;alais

Desteapta-te, române - translation

The "actual meaning" does not reflect the actual meaning
"It's always now or never,for you to build across   A path where all the tyrants will bow and kiss the cross!!!"

First of all, why do you put three exclamation signs after cross? Second, there is NO part in the entire anthem in which the idea is that the enemies of the Romanian people will bow down in front of the cross, but in front of the might of our people, in front of their bravery and so on. It has nothing to do with the cross. The only place where religion is mentioned is the last 4 verses, but it still does not bring a "Crusade like" air to the song. I suggest the translation be changed. Marius 82.208.174.72 (talk) 00:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

POV
The writing is a bit Romanian-patriotic POV. Not bad enough in this respect for me to flag it in the article itself, but someone might want to make a pass at it with this thorugh in mind. -- Jmabel 17:13, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)
 * You're right and I had this also in mind when I saw it was taken from the official website of the president. Initially, the link was pointing elsewhere, but I found out that the ultimate source was the president's page... Anyways, the facts are interesting enough, but the interpretation is ahem... --dfrki 18:09, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * I think "Since 1848, "Deşteaptă-te române" has been dear to Romanians" warrants . - FrancisTyers · 12:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Translation needed
The following verses all need translation; I suggest that while we work on it, we put attempted or partial translation after each verse. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:49, July 19, 2005 (UTC) I've continued your efforts, hope it's OK. --Xanthar 03:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Înalţă-ţi lata frunte şi caută-n giur de tine, 
 * Cum stau ca brazi în munte voinici sute de mii; 
 * Un glas el mai aşteaptă şi sar ca lupi în stâne, 
 * Bătrâni, bărbaţi, juni, tineri, din munţi şi din câmpii. 


 * [Translation needed of italicized phrases]
 * Raise thy face and look around you    ::::Word by word : Raise your broad forehead
 * Lik fir trees, hundreds of thousands of heroes are standing firm;
 * A voice they still wait to jump like wolves among the sheep,
 * Elders, men, youths, boys, from mountains to the plains.


 * Pre voi vă nimiciră a pizmei răutate 
 * Şi oarba neunire la Milcov şi Carpaţi 
 * Dar noi, pătrunşi la suflet de sfânta libertate, 
 * Jurăm că vom da mâna, să fim pururea fraţi. 


 * [Translation needed of italicized phrases]
 * nimiciră is something like annihilate, pizma = envy, răutate = evil, but I still  can't parse this. - Jmabel | Talk
 * Your were vanquished by the evils of your envy
 * And by your blind disunity, at Milcov and the Carpathians
 * But we, whose souls were pierced by holy liberty,
 * Swear that for ever in brotherhood we will join.


 * O mamă văduvită de la Mihai cel Mare 
 * Pretinde de la fii-şi azi mână d-ajutori, 
 * Şi blastămă cu lacrămi în ochi pe orişicare,
 * În astfel de pericul s-ar face vânzători. 

(O mama vaduvita = a widowed mother. Suggested translation: The widowed mother of Michael the Great...) (O mamă văduvită de la Mihai cel Mare  <-- that's a poetic reference to the country, which, when losing Mihai, lost one of her best sons. "A widowed mother" does a much better job of translating the concept, no?)


 * A widowed mother from the time of Michael the Great
 * Claims from her sons today a helping hand,
 * And sends-curses, with tears in her eyes, on whosoever,
 * In such great peril, a traitor would become.


 * De fulgere să piară, de trăsnet şi pucioasă, 
 * Oricare s-ar retrage din gloriosul loc, 
 * Când patria sau mama, cu inima duioasă, 
 * Va cere ca să trecem prin sabie şi foc. 


 * Of thunder and of brimestone should they perish   (? Of lightning he should perish, of thunder and of brimestone)
 * Those who flee our glorious endeavor   (?Whoever would retreat from his glorious place)
 * When our land, our mother with tears in her heart,   (?When his homeland, his mother, with a tearful heart)
 * I couldn't find any translation for duioasă or dor. Apparently there is no word in English to convey the meaning of such a word''--Xanthar 03:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Will ask us to cross through swords and blazing fire


 * N-ajunge iataganul barbarei semilune, 
 * A cărui plăgi fatale şi azi le mai simţim;
 * Acum se vâră cnuta în vetrele străbune, 
 * Dar martor ne de Domnul că vii nu oprimim.


 * Didn't we have enough of the yatagan of the barbaric crescent
 * Whose fatal wounds we feel even today?;
 * As they now come with knuts (russian whip) in our ancestral homes
 * But The Lord is our witness that we will not accept it alive.


 * N-ajunge despotismul cu-ntreaga lui orbie, 
 * Al cărui jug de seculi ca vitele-l purtăm; 
 * Acum se-ncearcă cruzii, cu oarba lor trufie, 
 * Să ne răpească limba, dar morţi numai o dăm. 


 * Didn't we have enough of the blinded despotism
 * Whose yoke, like cattle, for centuries we've carried?
 * Now let the cruel ones try, in their blind arrogance,
 * To take away our language, but give it we will only in our death!


 * Români din patru unghiuri, acum ori niciodată 
 * Uniţi-vă în cuget, uniţi-vă-n simţiri. 
 * Strigaţi în lumea largă că Dunărea-i furată 
 * Prin intrigă şi silă, viclene uneltiri.


 * Romanians from the four corners, now or never
 * Unite in thought, unite in feeling
 * Proclaim to the wide world that the Danube is stolen
 * Through intrigue and force, sly machinations.

Looks Mostly there. Can we check, and get this into the article? - Jmabel | Talk 19:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * "Like fir trees, Heroes are standing firm in their hundreds of thousands" should be "Like fir trees hundreds of thousands of heroes are standing firm." "Dar noi, pătrunşi la suflet de sfânta libertate" literally means "we whose souls were pierced by holy liberty" not "But we, patriots on the breeze of our holy liberty". The word patriot is not even in there and neither is there a mention of a breeze (though I can understand the metaphoric sense the translator meant to give it). I don't really like: "When our land, our mother with a solemn heart." I don't really know how to translate duious, either, maybe as solemn? Then it would read: "When our land, our mother with tears in her heart."Also where it says: "Now try the cruel ones, in their blind arrogance", it would be better to write "Now let the cruel ones try, in their blind arrogance." Other than that I believe that the translation was pretty well done. TSO1D 20:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I see two apparent mistakes. "O mamă văduvită de la Mihai cel Mare" doesn't refer to Mihai's mother herself, but rather to a mother widowed during Mihai's campaigns (ca. 1600). "Dar martor ne de Domnul că vii nu oprimim" - "...that we do not oppress the living." Biruitorul 21:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That second one is especially important. I don't think any country would have an anthem with the words: "But we give witness before the Lord that we do not prize life" TSO1D 15:55, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Wonderful help. Thank you. I've now incorporated all of that. Good to go? - Jmabel | Talk 06:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow what a bunch of genial people... "O mamă văduvită de la Mihai cel Mare" That "mother" is nothing but Romania. It was widowed since Michael the Brave because that was, till this poem was composed, the last and only time when most of the Romanians were in the same state. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.106.156.238 (talk • contribs).

Imposter
Just in case it is unclear this edit was not mine, it was an imposter account that has now been permanently blocked. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:45, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

National Anthem Day
The article says the sung on June 29, 1848, but National Anthem Day is July 29, with no explanation as to why the different days. I checked the Romanian version of the page, and it only mentions June 29 (at least from what I can tell, I don't know Romanian at all, but the number "29" appears only once on the page, in what seems to be a sentence discussing the 1848 event.)

I suppose I could check the other languages, but I don't understand them enough to be of any good either (and some may have jsut taken this fact blindly from the English page, or from whatever page started it.) --Canuckguy 15:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, it was really bugging me as to what the proper day was, so I took the liberty of running a few Google searches and it looks like July 29 is both the holiday and the date of the first performance of the anthem so, I've taken the liberty in changing the date of first performance not only in this article but in the Romanian one (anonymously, since I don't have an account there for obvious reasons) as well. (I learned what the Romanian word for "July" was in my Googling so I could change the Romanian version accurately, the new link wasn't "red linked", so I figure it was a success.) So, I guess a "Happy National Anthem Day" is in store for my Romanian friends! --Canuckguy 16:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Why remove the more literal translation?
I see that the more literal translation was recently removed. I don't think this is a good decision. People come to an encyclopedia to find out what a piece like this actually say, not just to get English-language poetry that isn't very close to the original. For example, "Cu braţele armate, cu focul vostru-n vine" simply does not mean "With arms like steel and hearts of fire impetuous". It means "With weapons in their arms, with your fire in their veins". - Jmabel | Talk 05:07, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree completely. This was a major edit undertaken without prior discussion, and the (somewhat) literal translation serves an important purpose. Biruitorul 06:55, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I've just read the more literal translation. I think it can be put back, but only after changing it a bit. For instance,


 * Acum ori niciodata, croieste-ti alta soarta
 * La care sa se-nchine si cruzii tai dusmani


 * is not correctly translated into


 * Now, as at no other time, create yourself a new fate,
 * For all others to bow to, even your cruelest enemies.


 * You could say:


 * Now, as at no other time, create yourself a new fate,
 * To which your cruel enemies will bow, too.


 * There's no "all others to bow" in the Romanian text, don't add it. It's not the only mistranslation. Dpotop 09:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The literal translation seems very bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.243.188.26 (talk) 02:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Law
From the article: "Note that the official anthem is never translated, acording to the Romanian law." Should this not say "Note that the anthem is never officially translated, according to Romanian law." - Jmabel | Talk 07:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Little causes, big consequences ;-))
a typo blindly reproduced from the Romanian presidential site, led to amusing consequences

the typo is:
 * Dar martor ne de Domnul că vii nu oprimim.

there is no such word in Romanian like 'oprimim' !

the right notation is "o primim", which simply means we get it (her), we accept it (her)

I can understand why this damned oprimim caused quite a headache, finally leading to this comical solution:


 * But we give witness before the Lord that we do not oppress the living.

Now, let's recapitulate


 * N-ajunge iataganul barbarei semilune, 
 * A cărui plăgi fatale şi azi le mai simţim;
 * Acum se vâră cnuta în vetrele străbune, 
 * Dar martor ne de Domnul că vii nu o primim.


 * Didn't we have enough of the yatagan of the barbaric crescent
 * Whose fatal wounds we still feel today?;
 * Now the knout is intruding in our ancestral homes,
 * But we give witness before the Lord that alive, we do not accept it.
 * I think living should replace alive. TSO1D 03:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

(in bold, corrected parts)

meaning: didn't we have enough of the Ottomans (yatagan), now here are the Russians (knout) trying to intrude, which we will not accept as long as we are alive

There also are some other minor inadvertencies, but this was the one worth mentioning. --Vintila Barbu 15:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

This attests that the real difficulty with the poem of that good old Anton Pann, is the Romanian - Romanian translation. The guy is unique in the Romanian litterature, being the only genuine Balcanian. His Romanian is different, for some awfull, for others possessing an oriental exotism, that unique touch of "Isarlîk". It seems sometimes, that his texts are more difficult to understand than some even older Romanian texts, like those of the chroniclers.

"Isarlîk" is a fantasy area imaginated by poet Ion Barbu to designate the oriental Turkish-Balcanian culture, a space to which modern Romanian culture has had a complex relationship of attraction-repulsion. --Vintila Barbu 15:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, so that's what it was. The oprimim -> oppress translation didn't seem completely right, but I thought it was an archaic form. But of course, you are right, it was just a simple typo. TSO1D 03:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Some suggestions for the litteral translation
First, let's have a proper Romanian version, according to

LEGEA Nr.75 din 16 iulie 1994 privind arborarea drapelului României, intonarea imnului naţional şi folosirea sigiliilor cu stema României de către autorităţile şi instituţiile publice


 * "DEŞTEAPTĂ-TE ROMÂNE"


 * Deşteaptă-te, române, din somnul cel de moarte,
 * În care te-adânciră barbarii de tirani!
 * Acum ori niciodată croieşte-ţi altă soarte,
 * La care să se-nchine şi cruzii tăi duşmani!


 * Acum ori niciodată să dăm dovezi la lume
 * Că-n aste mâni mai curge un sânge de roman,
 * Şi că-n a noastre piepturi păstrăm cu fală-un nume
 * Triumfător în lupte, un nume de Traian!


 * Înalţă-ţi lata frunte şi caută-n giur de tine,
 * Cum stau ca brazi în munte voinici sute de mii;
 * Un glas ei mai aşteaptă şi sar ca lupi în stâne,
 * Bătrâni, bărbaţi, juni, tineri, din munţi şi din câmpii!


 * Priviţi, măreţe umbre, Mihai, Ştefan, Corvine,
 * Româna naţiune, ai voştri strănepoţi,
 * Cu braţele armate, cu focul vostru-n vine,
 * "Viaţă-n libertate ori moarte!" strigă toţi.


 * Pre voi vă nimiciră a pizmei răutate
 * Şi oarba neunire la Milcov şi Carpaţi!
 * Dar noi, pătrunşi la suflet de sfânta libertate,
 * Jurăm că vom da mâna, să fim pururea fraţi!


 * O mamă văduvită de la Mihai cel Mare
 * Pretinde de la fii-şi azi mână d-ajutori,
 * Şi blastămă cu lacrimi în ochi pe orişicare,
 * În astfel de pericol s-ar face vânzători!


 * De fulgere să piară, de trăsnet şi pucioasă,
 * Oricare s-ar retrage din gloriosul loc,
 * Când patria sau mama, cu inimă duioasă,
 * Va cere ca să trecem prin sabie şi foc!


 * N-ajunse iataganul barbarei semilune,
 * A cărui plăgi fatale şi azi le mai simţim;
 * Acum se vâră cnuta în vetrele străbune,
 * Dar martor ne e Domnul că vii nu o primim!


 * N-ajunse despotismul cu-ntreaga lui orbie,
 * Al cărui jug din seculi ca vitele-l purtăm ;
 * Acum se-ncearcă cruzii, în oarba lor trufie,
 * Să ne răpească limba, dar morţi numai o dăm!


 * Români din patru unghiuri, acum ori niciodată
 * Uniţi-vă în cuget, uniţi-vă-n simţiri!
 * Strigaţi în lumea largă că Dunărea-i furată
 * Prin intrigă şi silă, viclene uneltiri!


 * Preoţi, cu cruce-n frunte! căci oastea e creştină,
 * Deviza-i libertate şi scopul ei preasfânt.
 * Murim mai bine-n luptă, cu glorie deplină,
 * Decât să fim sclavi iarăşi în vechiul nost'pământ!

Now, some suggestions for a litteral translation. Please note that these suggestions are made in order to improve an exact mirroring of the Romanian original, regardless of any rythmical, stylistical or lyrical consideration.


 * Wake up, O Romanian, from your deadly sleep


 * Into which you've been sunk by the barbaric tyrants


 * Now, as at no other time, create yourself a new fate,


 * To which your cruel enemies will also bow.


 * Now or never let's give proof to the world


 * That in these hands still flows a Roman blood,


 * That in our chests we still maintain our with pride in a name


 * The victor Triumphant in his battles, the a name of Trajan!


 * Raise your broad forehead and look around you
 * Like fir trees in the mountain, hundreds of thousands of heroes braves are standing firm ;
 * A voice they still wait to and jump like wolves among the sheep,
 * Elders, men, youths, boys, from mountains to and the plains.


 * Watch on, great shadows of highnesses, Mihai, Stefan, Corvinus,


 * The Romanian Nation, your great grandchildren,


 * With weapons in the ir arms, with your fire in the ir veins,


 * " Live free or die Life in freedom or death!" all shout.


 * Your were vanquished by the envy's evil s of your
 * And by your the blind disunity at Milcov and the Carpathians
 * But we, whose souls were pierced by holy liberty,
 * Swear that we will shake hands for ever to be in brothers hood we will join.


 * A widowed mother from the time of Michael the Great
 * Claims from her sons today a helping hand,
 * Sending curses, with tears in her eyes, on whosoever,
 * In such great peril, a traitor would become.


 * Of thunder and of brimestone should they perish
 * Those who flee our glorious endeavor place
 * When our homeland or mother with tears in her gentle heart,
 * Will ask us to cross through swords and blazing fire


 * Didn't we have Wasn't it enough of the yatagan of the barbaric crescent
 * Whose fatal wounds we still feel today?;
 * Now the knout is intruding in the ancestral homes
 * But the Lord is our witness we give witness before the Lord that living, we don't accept it


 * Didn't we have Wasn't it enough of the blinded despotism
 * Whose yoke, like cattle, for centuries we've carried?
 * Now let the cruel ones are trying, in their blind arrogance,
 * To take away our language, but give it we will only in our death!


 * Romanians from the four corners, now or never
 * Unite in thought, unite in feeling
 * Proclaim to the wide world that the Danube is stolen
 * Through intrigue and force, sly machinations.


 * Priests, lead with your crucifixes! Because the army is Christian,


 * The motto is Liberty and the goal is holy,


 * Better to die in battle, in full glory,


 * Than to once again be slaves upon our ancient ground!

PS That "widowed mother from the times of Mihai" is a metapher of "Romania", whereby the "widowhood" means the disunion of the Romanian Lands after Mihai. Now, in this crucial moment, this "widowed mother" claims from her sons a helping hand, etc. --Vintila Barbu 18:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I like the old translation better - (a name of Trajan doesn't really make any sense in English - it barely does in Romanian), and there is no need to change the mother metaphor - explain it later, maybe, but do not change it in the original translation. --Xanthar 09:42, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Which Corvinus?
In the verse "Watch on, shadows of highnesses, Mihai, Stefan, Corvinus", Corvinus links to Matthias Corvinus, with the footnote "The most famous 15th and 16th century Romanian princes". Well, leaving the incorrect usage of "Romanian" in this context aside, one can barely consider Matthias Corvinus to be a "Romanian" prince since he was only 25% of Vlach origin (according to the sources, John Hunyadi was the son of a Wallachian boyar and a Hungarian noblewoman, and Matthias's mother was of Hungarian origin). Thus I would tend to think that Andrei Mureşanu more likely referred to John Hunyadi. Does someone have any sources regarding this? Mentatus (talk) 07:01, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * He does mean Matthias. I know this seems surprizing today, but the poem was written in an age of romantic nationalism. Plinul cel tanar (talk) 15:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It is referring to Matthias Corvinus. Not just the Hungarian translation prove this, also Romanian sources, i.e.: ,


 * However, seeing the other poem is interesting, it is generally known by more nations as reffering ot Matthias, moreover reinforced by Romanian sources, and the national athem was not written in the very blurry past, so it it would not be Matthias, I am sure someone would have noticed it...or is there something else instead of the speculation regarding the other poem?(KIENGIR (talk) 22:52, 30 June 2018 (UTC))
 * The second site contains school projects for pupils. I don't know how reliable are the authors of the first text. 123Steller (talk) 07:16, 1 July 2018 (UTC)


 * One more: . We can conclude, that generally Matthias Corvinus is believed as the reference. However, if it is a major mistake falsely believed over a hundred year, possible, but at least a source should be found that claims that, then we may mention semewhere in the article that such controvery has arisen.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:14, 1 July 2018 (UTC))
 * , I found a source that clearly indicates that John Hunyadi is referred . 123Steller (talk) 06:59, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

The actual meaning
I removed the section: entitled "the actual meaning." I don't really understand what it purpose was, but in any case, it wasn't even close to a faithful translation. Anyway the text is below Actually the whole essence of the song is this, of course...(not direct translation, but the meaning)


 * Wake up, Romanian, from sleeping of the death
 * Induced from the barbarians... the tyrants on your neck
 * It's always now or never, for you to build across
 * A path where all the tyrants will bow and kiss the cross !!!


 * It's always now or never to settle out the scores
 * And prove that our blood is Roman when it flows
 * And show we keep at heart the Roman named Traian
 * The winner of the battles... the rays of mighty sun.


 * Wake up,Romanian, from sleeping of the death
 * Induced from the barbarians... the tyrants on your neck
 * It's always now or never, for you to build across
 * A path where all the tyrants will bow and kiss the cross !!! TSO1D (talk) 13:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Translation suggestions
I have done some changes to the literal translation where I thought necessary. I chose sleep of death over deadly sleep in that deadly is a poor choice here, sleep of death being closer to the original. I also eliminated some contractions and made some other minor changes. sfaefaol 12:01, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Why do some national anthem articles have vocal versions and others don't?
The article for Limba noastră has a vocal sample, and this one doesn't. I know some national anthems don't have words (Spain) but if it does have words, then an instrumental version is not the national anthem. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 03:42, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Deșteaptă-te, române!. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120722161704/http://muzeulmuresenilor.ro/istorie.htm to http://www.muzeulmuresenilor.ro/istorie.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120401113603/http://www.nationalmuseum.md/ro/pub/rev/pdf/vol_2_2/27_Tabac.pdf to http://www.nationalmuseum.md/ro/pub/rev/pdf/vol_2_2/27_Tabac.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 10:11, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:51, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Desteapta-te, romane!.ogg