Talk:De Havilland Mosquito operational history

No. 540 or No. 544 Squadron
According to Morgan, Hugh & Weal, John (1998). German Jet Aces of World War 2. London: Orsprey Publishing Limited. ISBN 1-85532-634-5 page 16, Alfred Schreiber claimed the destruction of a No. 540 Sqn Mosquito and not over a No. 544 Sqn Mosquito. Are we sure that 544 is correct? MisterBee1966 (talk) 21:02, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

544 Squadron ORB confirms the encounter on 25 July, Wall and Lobban landing in Italy. Interestingly, it says their aircraft, MM273, returned to service. Most secondary accounts claim it was written off on landing, etc. Don't know if this can go in the main section though, original research and all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.118.18 (talk) 12:04, 9 August 2010 (UTC)


 * According to this site MM273 (a PR.XVI) was operational to Stettin & Denmark in January 1945, and went to La Spezia & Genoa in March the same year.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 18:34, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

MM273 lost the Me262 in cloud at 16,000ft, landed safely at Fermo on the Adriatic (Sharp & Bowyer p.142), remained in service, was later transferred to the Royal Navy and crashed into the sea off Malta in 1950. (Just Google 'Mosquito MM273' and see.) Somebody keeps trying to sell this bogus story about Schreiber's 'kill', but fortunately no one in their right mind mistakes Wikipedia for a reliable source, so it probably doesn't matter. Khamba Tendal (talk) 18:32, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Berlin Raids
Thank you, the person who has inserted the respected German historians' source for "green and yellow with envy.........." Being perfectionist, I suppose we really need a citation for: "... Göring's claim that such a mission was impossible" Like many things he is supposed to have said, there is a lot of loose talk. Maybe the same source has it? I cannot look it up since my nearest copy of these huge volumes is in London, which would be a day's train outing. Can you help? Dendrotek 16:11, 10 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dendrotek (talk • contribs)


 * Göring was famously noted for his early war claim that 'No enemy aircraft will fly over Reich territory' such that it was quoted often in Britain and (usually sarcastically) Germany at the time - see image; Avro-lancaster-front.jpg  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 17:43, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, of course. But I was pointing out that we need a SOURCE citation please, preferably German and certainly not Irving! Dendrotek 11:46, 17 December 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dendrotek (talk • contribs)

Best I can do is that the most often-reported wording was "Wenn auch nur ein feindliches Flugzeug unser Reichsgebiet überfliegt, will ich Meier heißen!", and that this was said in a radio broadcast. However, no-one seems to know precisely when this radio broadcast was, other than "at the start of the war." All of that said, "Germany and the Second World War: Volume VII" (the source for the "green and yellow with envy" quote) notes on page 370 that the Nazi Sicherheitsdienst (SD) reported in June 1943 that Göring's "usual nickname" amongst the citizens of the Reich was Meier. (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=rVVeO4B985wC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=meier&f=false) I suppose one could therefore legitimately change the text on the Mossie Op History page to something like "helping Göring earn his nickname of Meier," or similar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.167.89.74 (talk) 01:47, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I think we should be very careful about that. Unless expressed with great tact, many will not like being reminded of the fact that he regarded the name Meier as an insult. And it does not fulfill the original need for a citation for "no bombs shall fall on the Fatherland". I've just got "Low Attack," John de L. Wooldrige (CO of 105 Sqdn.), from the library - originally published in 1943. He also quotes Goering's boast but again with no exact citation. Interestingly though (p. 34), Wooldridge does say the a few days before the Berlin daylight raids "Lord Haw Haw" jeered at "England being compelled to build her aeroplanes from wood." It might be possible to track that broadcast down as a formal citation. --Dendrotek 11:45, 7 January 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dendrotek (talk • contribs)

Alfred Price, Battle Over The Reich, Ian Allan 1973, has this on its first page of text, p.9: -- ' "As Reichs Minister for Air, I have convinced myself personally of the measures taken to protect the Ruhr against air attack. In future I will look after every battery, for we will not expose the Ruhr to a single bomb dropped by enemy aircraft." -- Hermann Goering, speaking on August 9th 1939.' This speech seems to be where the misquote 'No enemy plane shall fly over the Reich territory' came from. Goering mentions 'batteries' because the Flak was a branch of the Luftwaffe. Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:01, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

It seems a lot of people have been looking for an original source for the "Meier" quote, many of them in Germany, all in vain. The German ZDF channel (public service channel, so at least relatively professional), did a three-part series on Goering in 2006, and apparently went chasing the quote in broadcast archives, but found nothing of the kind. http://www.welt.de/print-welt/article203716/Massloser-Reichsmarschall.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.161.164.35 (talk) 23:39, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Swap Sections 4 & 5 - putting all bomber sections together then fighters
See heading. Shall we do this? If nobody objects, I will do it in next few weeks.Dendrotek 11:47, 18 December 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dendrotek (talk • contribs)


 * "5 RAF Bomber Support"? that's fighter operations and a specific area of the night-fighter activities. It could be a subsection of Night fighters which in part covers the same topic. Section 4 needs to be expanded if anything. GraemeLeggett (talk) 08:07, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

OK Graeme, good point, thanks. I see Pathfinder Ops. has several "citations needed" so maybe I'll do a bit of work on that, soon.Dendrotek 21:14, 21 December 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dendrotek (talk • contribs)

BOAC passengers
Anyone object if I delete the word "occasionally" at the start of the sentence? The impression I get, having now done quite a bit of reading on this fascinating subject, is that "officials" were quite happy to let the "ball bearing run" story seep out as a sort of chickenfeed mist to cover the fact that quite a lot of VIPs and strategically significant passengers were flow. Not only Bohr, but also Malcolm Sargeant (later Sir) the conductor for example, plus a goodly number of the more important members of Norwegian Resistance.--Dendrotek 19:46, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Propose deletion of sentence about FW Ta 154 from Pathfinder Ops Section
Shall we delete: -

The Mosquito inspired[citation needed] a conceptually similar German aircraft, the Focke Wulf Ta 154 Moskito, which, like its namesake, was constructed of wood.

This does't have anything to do specifically with Pathfinders, furthermore it is questionable whether the DH Mosquito inspired it - it had a different wing configuration and other significant differences, besides German aircraft designers were equally proficient at powered wooden aircraft design and construction before WW2, progressing there from championship-winning wooden glider designs. The FW Moskito project was a failure mainly because of mad and confused policies from the top, but also because of difficulties of bonding wood-to-metal, for which purpose Britain developed the successful Redux process - but none of this belongs here!Okan 20:22, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Section entitled ″618 Squadron - Highball and the Pacific″
Just a suggestion - this section seems to occupy quite a lot of space and apparent importance for a Special Variant of the Mosquito that never saw any active service. I wonder whether it originated in the Main Article? Here we are considering Operational History rather than intricate technical modifications to a small number of aircraft variants. There is a Section of the Wikipedia Article Bouncing Bomb about Highball. Perhaps we could transfer some of this Section there, maybe abbreviating the bullet-pointed list? We could then retain a smaller length of text here about Highball, maybe combining it with some other low-volume operational variants e.g. the Tetse Molins gun FB's? Birtles' excellent book, recently published, takes a similar approach. See Bibliography. Okan 17:33, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Bill Edridge - Notable Pilot
Can any one give or help to find a citation confirming that he "graduated to Mosquitos"? What squadron? I have found proof that he was on Operation Knapsack, flying Blenheims, and for this he was decorated, but can find nothing thereafter. Okan 17:04, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Since nobody has responded I am of a mind to delete the entry for Edridge - depends what one thinks "notable" means, I suppose? Perhaps he did fly mossies for a while, but did he distinguish himself in that way? Okan 21:39, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Guy Gibson
Similar thoughts to the above - although he was certainly a very distinguished and famous man, and a brave pilot. But he only flew a few hours in Mosquitos and the circumstances of his death and that of his navigator in the 627 Squadron machine were tragic. I quote from the Wikipedia Article on him: ''The exact cause of Gibson's crash is unknown and is likely to remain so. A number of theories exist, with some more likely than others. Various contributory factors may also have led to the loss of his Mosquito.[157] One theory advanced is that the accident was due to Gibson's lack of experience flying Mosquitos. His log book, which he had last updated on 16 September, detailed 9 hours and 35 minutes flying Mosquitos. It was observed it took him three attempts to land at Scatsta. He had been on one training flight on 31 August to learn how to dive bomb and Mosquito crews knew they had to practise regularly, particularly in pulling out of dives. Also, he had not rehearsed the emergency procedures to exit a Mosquito – as it could take 30 seconds even on the ground.[158]''

Since he is well and fairly covered elsewhere, and by leading authorities including Churchill, Harris, Cheshire etc. I think it is more decent to omit him from this Mosquito Operations Article - any comments? Okan 21:39, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Still no comments? Having allowed myself a "cooling off" period, I still feel, quite strongly, that Gibson should be cut from here. It is for notable Mosquito pilots (aircrew?) NOT notabilities who flew Mosquitos (for a very short while, in his case). So this is my final "Talk" on the subject before making the cut. Okan 14:43, 23 January 2018 (UTC)