Talk:Dead Like Me/Archive 1

Rube's marriage licence
Hey, someone with TiVo should help out with Rube information from that episode where whe see his marriage license. M@$+@ Ju 02:16, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Splitting characters/episodes?
With all the information being added with the airing of each new season 2 episode, perhaps the spoiler-ish revelations should be moved into separate articles.

I think the detailed characters should be in something like "Dead Like Me characters". I kind of like the way Family Guy and its character page, and Charmed are done. Major and minor characters should be separated. Although the pet reaper is undead, he's minor.

I don't know if George warrants her own article.

(List of) DLM episodes could be another article, with one-line synopses (possibly the Showtime blurbs?) in the main article. Then there could be director/writer/guest star credits, as well as a list of things revealed: Roxy's nightmares, Daisy's sister, etc. --Christopherlin 22:10, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I would recommend that unless a show is extremely popular, or when extraordinarily circumstances demands it, that individual show episodes do not warrant their own entries. However, SUGGESTION: perhaps the episode titles should appear in either bold or italics, which would lead to easier viewing.Autopilots 23:54, Oct 12, 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking that now the main page is bumping up against the 32kb limit it is time to move the characters to a new page.Icundell 20:35, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * If characters are seperated, do we just give the cast on the main page, or do we give an overview of the characters as a whole? Because I've seen both on TV show pages with seperate character pages. VolatileChemical 04:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I like the idea of a single-paragraph, minimal-spoiler overview. The descriptions basically re-summarize the plot arcs. --Christopherlin 04:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Characters
I don't think we should have sections on characters who only appear in one episode, such as Penny. We should wait until they're in at least two. -Branddobbe 06:11, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

Reaper birthdates
Branddobbe, how did you arrive at the birth years for Roxy, Daisy and Charlie?
 * They're approximations (hence the ~). I worked on the assumption that the characters were about the same ages as the actors playing them. Hopefully I got my math right. -Branddobbe 08:42, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)


 * Not sure about Charlie, a few older sites for The Dead Zone reffered to the actor as being born in 1996, but that could just be a discrepency since the character (JJ Bannerman) was born in 1996. Pinkfloydfan 22:26, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Can we stick to canon/NPOV please
We know that Daisy died in Marietta - it was in her paperwork.

We know where she claimed to die.

The two do not tally and that has not yet been explained.

It is possible that this is a simple error by the writers, but given the many occassions when they have shown they have researched the past (in particular regarding slang and social attitudes) this can't be assumed. Since it may be significant to the character's development all we can do is contrast the claim with the known facts.

It is NOT the same as the Mir case, which simply reflects the reality of how long it takes to get a script from idea to screen.--

Also we have been repeatedly told that Gravelings can be seen askance/ in the corner of the eye. There is no basis for the assertion that it is a reaper preference.

Icundell 10:17, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think the show seems to have forgotten the "corner of the eye" idea when it comes to seeing Gravelings as Daisy, Mason and Rube (just to name three) have clearly been able to see Gravelings without any trouble. There was supposed to be some sort of storyline to suggest that George has some ability re: Gravelings the others do not, but other than the Graveling not taking her soul in the pool, this has yet to happen (but the season still has two episodes to go as I write this).

Re: Daisy's death location. Agreed, the discrepency has not been explained fully. The fact that Mason has been openly skeptical that any of her sexual escapades actually happened leads one to believe she made have made up the GOTW story. But until the show says one way or the other, we don't know. But we can still point out such a discrepency exists.

Cheers! 23skidoo 20:20, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Referring to an earlier NPOV edit re: the description of Ray the Graveling as being "evil", the episode "Always" pretty much confirms this by the graveling killing an innocent bystander. I prefer the term malevolent to describe him, however, as Gravelings per se aren't evil. 23skidoo 03:04, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think malevolent is a much better word and, I think, unarguable  in the case of Ray. Icundell 09:45, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Re Daisy's death 'confirmation'. The old geezer didn't confirm anything. He said she died 'when they were filming' (not verbatim, but close) not 'on the set'. The filming of GWTW was front page news, especially the hunt for Scarlett. ISTM that the much more important part of what he said was the stuff about her coming to the Stork Club most nights (implies to me she was a hooker, but not strongly enough to include it in the entry). Icundell 09:51, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Cultural references
DLM seems to have a lot of references, so I just started a section on cultural references in DLM, patterned after Foolip et al.'s References in Star Trek article:

The writers of Star Trek have often made use of existing culture, sometimes as a central plot element and sometimes as a minor reference for the attentive viewer to pick up on. The references listed here need not be cultural – historical references or other noteworthy references are also listed.

I did these from memory, with a copy of season two to check accuracy where possible. I also used the TVTome and IMDb entries.

The addition pushes the whole page above 32kb, so a separate article might be better for some users. --Christopherlin 20:54, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * New page seems like a sound idea to me. The article is getting long. Icundell 10:14, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Moved it to List of references in Dead Like Me. Christopherlin 20:15, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Good call. Now that the season is over there should be less week-to-week additions, so maybe this is a good time to edit down or split the article into appropriate pages. BTW as a relative newcomer to Wikipedia I'd like to compliment all involved on the collaborative work done on updating the article during the season. (Good catch whoever spotted Roxy's full name on her police badge!). 23skidoo 16:58, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Much as I'd like to claim credit, it was a poster on deadlikemonline.com who spotted Roxy's details - there's a screen cap posted in their message board if you fancy a rummage. I think there is a case for simple things - like putting the various names (especially the living) in a more sensible running order. Is there a case for 'episodes' going onto a seperate page? Oh, and I second the congrats all round :-) Icundell 09:42, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Sadly the refernces page has been deleted. No doubt by one of the sad case editors on Wiki these day's. They have even blocked the wayback machine. Anyway able re-start it as it NEEDS to be done Djarra 18:04, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

References from 'Always' in character bios.
In Crystals Bio it reads "In "Always" it was revealed that she is fluent in Spanish, French, Russian and Swahili, and that she was also a member of the Special Forces." I assumed when watching this episode that this was George imagining what lies she might have told Dolorous, not a fact. George likes Crystal and so imagines that she gets away with it, while she doesn't like Misty so imagines something bad being the truth about her. Djarra 20:07, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup
I'm thinking of adding the cleanup tag to the article. This applies to the whole article, but particularly the beginning paragraphs need to be revised. Anybody agree/disagree? Firestorm 01:31, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Rube Sofer
did anyone realize that "Sofer" means "scribe"? I just saw this because i was reading on the page mezuzah. Interesting connection that he is the one who writes the post its for the reapers.

M@$+@ Ju 9 July 2005 12:55 (UTC)

Head reaper
This was added by 69.158.34.176:


 * Head Reaper-all that is known is that the Head Reaper is a female. Fans have often theorized that the Head Reaper is Kiffany, the waitress from Der Waffe Haus or Crystal, the receptionist at Happy Time Temp Agency

In two seasons, there was never explicit talk of a "head reaper". All we got was that there was death, with various levels of development. Kiffany and Crystal seem to know more than most, but I am not aware of any extension of that. --Christopherlin 02:53, 13 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Kiffany? Is this the same waitress who had to ask what happened to the Der Waffle Haus sign after it fell on a co-worker? And who then said, "I didn't know him"? McGehee 17:40, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I almost removed that myself, because such fan speculation is not encyclopedic. I paused mainly because I was wondering where the assertion that the "Head Repear is a female" came from, which I can't easily check at the moment. Can anyone cite an instance in one or more episodes that makes this clear? I was under the impression that we know essentially nothing about the overall Reaper hierarchy, just that someone (some thing?) gives Rube his lists. Who knows who they might be, if it's the same person each time, where they might be in the scheme, or how big the organization is? All we should include is stuff presented within the existing episodes (and perhaps clarification provided in cast & crew commentaries, assuming we can filter out the truth from the frequent jokes in those sources). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:22, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I think some people jump to this conclusion because Rube once tried to cook dinner for two for the list deliverer. In fact we don't even know that the deliverer is Rube's boss. He/she might be the undead equivalent of a postman. Icundell 13:57, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I think we do know they're his boss, or at least more than a postman. In "A Cook" when he gets the list, and obviously reads "A. Cook" on the list he shouts at the deliverer "What the fuck is wrong with you" implying the person who delivers it also makes it. - RedHotHeat 20:50, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
 * But it's quite possible Rube's "you" is second-person plural; i.e., "what's wrong with you [people]?". As it stands, without even a glimpse of who he's addressing and no clear connection to or hint of who is the authority, it's still just speculation. It seems certain that this ambiguity is intentional on the part of the writers, suggesting that they want to have suprises to reveal in future episodes (although that apparently won't happen now), so it's presumptuous of us to attempt to write in these details in advance of actual story development. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:21, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

I removed this item added by Pinkfloydfan, the third edit from this account.


 * "Fans on the IMDb Boards often debate the identity of the head reaper(who gives Rube the death list); all that is known is that the head reaper is female, based on this, many fans have claimed the either Crystal, the Happy Time Receptionist or Kiffany the waitress are the two most likely choices."

See WP:FICT for fiction guidelines. Fan speculation is just that. I'd like to see what sort of evidence from the show is given in support of the idea of a "head reaper", much less for said head reaper to be a character seen elsewhere in the show. --Christopherlin 04:44, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Completely agree with the removal - it is pure fanwank. There is not even any canonical evidence that the person delivering the list is the head reaper and without that everything else is moot. Icundell 01:44, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I see someone put this nonsense back in. Ho hum. RVed. Icundell 01:37, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

The main reason I said the Head Reaper is female is because at one point when the list was given to Rube(I don't remember the exact episode), there is a glimpse of what appears to be a dress and high heeled shoes. The dress may simply be the stereotypical robe of the Grim Reaper, but the high heels, in my opinion, prove the Head Reapers is either: A) A female OR B) A transvestite - Pinkfloydfan 23:24 9 January 2006


 * Pinkfloydfan, it doesn't matter if the person you saw is Dr. Frank-N-Furter, there is absolutely nothing in that scene or in the entire series that makes clear who the supposed Head Reaper is, or even if there is one. Please carefully re-read the above discussion and link thoughtfully provided to see (A) why seeing a person giving Rube the list is not proving the existence of a Head Reaper, and (B) why fan discussion is not an acceptable source for Wikipedia articles. If you have any questions about this policy, feel free to post a note on my talk page and I'll discuss it with you in depth. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 05:56, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Upon re-reading this, discussion, I realized I should probably drop that idea. Most of that crap I put was written in a sleep-deprived state of mind anyways. Pinkfloydfan 03:25, 11 January 2006 (UTC)