Talk:Dead Moon Circus

Language
There seems to be some inconsistency on which version's terms are used. There is some original Japanese terminology, but the article also uses "crescent moon wand" and "Silver Emperial Crystal", which I believe are North American dub terms. (The corresponding Japanese terms, IIRC, are Moon Stick and Phantom Silver Crystal.)

On a somewhat related note, what is the justification for the statement that the Japanese spelling of her name is Nehellenia while the English is Nehelenia? To my knowledge there hasn't been any officially confirmed romanization. (Can anyone correct me on this? I mean with an actual official source, not a fan site.)  I think the Japanese version should just be an exact transliteration of the syllables, Ne-he-re-ni-a, since that is all we know for sure. Yumecosmos 04:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * A good point. It may also be worth bringing up that the English subtitled episode 164 gives her name in the title card as Nehelenia. -Masamage 06:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Nehellenia
"Nehellenia was truly a child forced to inhabit an adult body" when dose it say that? i thourt the mirror brainwashed her and she grew up thinking she had to be pretty or she be alone and after a few years she ask the mirror if she allwas look pretty and then she want insane and stole her servents dreamsSailor cuteness 15:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm. It's not that the mirror brainwashed her; she was just terrified in general of becoming ugly. I don't think the sentence is correct, though. She was really an adult, but she gets reverted back to a child in the anime, I think as a sort of mercy (a second chance). This page has good info. --Masamage 02:57, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Logo
As per on Death Busters And Black Moon Clan We need the Dead Moon Circus' logo (that black thing on their foreheads)... Should We include Nehellia's Logo (the 3 moons) as well?Lego3400: The Sage of Time 02:42, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * "As per" usually refers to a formal decision that's been made; the only person adding logos is you. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them--I kind of like them--just be careful what terms you use. Also, I don't know what symbol you're talking about. Zirconia has what looks like a third eyeball, Nehellenia has a costume motif (not a logo), the Quartet have little black circles (possibly also a costume motif), and each member of the Trio has something different. --Masamage 03:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * View the SuperS special episode "The Return of Haruka and Michiru! The Ghostly Puppet Show", and when that maid goes to attack Michiru on the balcony, you see something on her forehead. I think that's what he's talking about.  -- RattleMan 03:27, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a "third eye", but isn't that getting a little crufty?? - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 08:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If you look at the pic of the Amazoness Quartet you'll notice that that "third Eye" is on them as well... Its on all the Members of the Trio as well... And Nehllia and Zircona! They all have it... Its their logo... I'm Assumeing its on the Lermurs too... I'm betting that their is an explantion about it in one of the art books. Could someone look this up, I'd do it but Sadly i can't Read Japanase and don't have access to a translation of the text... Lego3400: The Sage of Time 16:35, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not a logo, it's a costume motif. There's a huge difference. And the Trio all have different ones, Nehellenia doesn't have it at all, and Zirconia has what looks like a literal third eye. Wayyy too crufty. --Masamage 19:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Really? But it is on Nehelenia Its that big black gem on her head... Its the same item just larger and its more in her hair than on her head (As she has that 3 Moon Mark, She can't attach it to her forehead like the others) and while the trio's may be different... The only difference is the decorations around it... Its the same Gem... (It also appears to be the same black stones Nehellia has on her neck thing and wristbands but last bit is just my view)--Lego3400:  The Sage of Time 03:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The thing about the maid reminded me! The Gemstone is what places the Lemuers and People under Nehellia (and in turn Zircona, The Quartet, the trio)'s control! If only we could find what it is...Lego3400: The Sage of Time 20:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

dead moon
was Queen Nehellenia home plant the dead moon or the new moon (or are they the same) and was it in the center of our moon or a diffrent planit Sailor cuteness 16:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It's called the New Moon, but it's not clear where it is. I think it's implied somewhere that it's the center of our moon, but I don't know which version that was in. --Masamage 19:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In the manga, she seemed to live in the realm on the other side of the mirror during the time of the Silver Millennium. - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 00:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Logo
I figured out their logo! you that Thing that sorta looks like an eye that is on the Drapes used by the trio and appear almost every place inside the Circus? THAT Is their Logo. Some one get a scrennie of it and dump in to the Logo slot in the infobox —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 17:15, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

Theres a shot of it in almost every episode BTW, Its in the Bar that the Trio hangs out in and in the Spa the Quartet hangs out in. I could go on and on about its locations but it seems to be in enough places to warent being called their logo Lego3400: The Sage of Time 19:40, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

did the dub cut out them drinking in the bar? because they usely cut any thing like that sailor cuteness-ready for love 14:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope. Cloverway wasn't as easily-shocked as DiC. --Masamage 22:13, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Ummm, I see you added an image. I'm still reeeeally not convinced that can be reasonably called a logo. Even if I was convinced, that one is pretty low-quality. --Masamage 22:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Lets see, the bar, the spa, the curtin they change behind, the door way to the circus, the symboal that allows lermures to a appear out of the shadow, that should be enough to convince you...... And that was the best i could do... It got stretched.... Lego3400: The Sage of Time 00:32, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I've drastically cleaned up your image. Until a replacement is found, this will have to do. -- RattleMan 01:36, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

do we need the logos to be at the top of the page? because the dark kingdom doom tree aliens and shadow galactca dont have logos would it be better to have a smaller version of the logo and put them somwere elec in the article like the sailor planit symboys in the sailors articles so the other articles kinda match? sailor cuteness-ready for love 14:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I have a confession, and it is that I really don't like these infoboxes. If we want some, we should make them ourselves. --Masamage 20:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

i agree on the sailor cosmos page thers blank spaces where her powers go in the infobox ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 20:09, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * No, that's not what I mean. I love our Senshi boxes; she's just ill-suited for one because we have no info about her to put in one. No, what I mean is the "Fictional organization" infoboxes. --Masamage 20:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

oh right sorry should the organization boxs follow the same format as sailor boxes ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 21:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Visually, yes, mostly. Most importantly, though, it would need fields more relevant to our needs--we don't really need "universe," "type," "founded," "location," or "purpose," for instance. We need "Story arc" (ie First arc), "Leader" (ie Queen Beryl) "Chaos form" (ie Queen Metallia), "MOTD" (ie Youma), and "Subsidiaries" (ie Shitennou), that I can think of off the top of my head. We could also have a more flexible image-slot that didn't label everything a "logo," which would allow me to stop being so anal about the definition of that word. :P Instead of a chopped-out picture of neon-Zircon like we have now, we could have a nice, informative screenshot of the circus. --Masamage 21:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

last edit
sorry i thorght it would make it easyer to read ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 19:15, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * No need to be sorry. ^_^ The hope is that eventually our prose there will be so good that we don't need headers to make it clear which version we mean. --Masamage 19:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * cool :} ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 19:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There are some articles that still make that kind of division, like Death Busters, but the writing on those is pretty awful. ;_; --Masamage 19:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

thats why i put it in because i saw it on others hehehe i should probly look befor i leap ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 19:37, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Heh. I've had that happen too. ^^ It's probably useful to know that I'm a fan of the bold, revert, discuss style of editing WP. Boldness is a great way to keep things moving, because either something gets done, or it gets discussed. :) Or it gets discussed and then done better. --Masamage 22:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

just like now huh is there anything wikipidia cant do ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 22:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Picture
would anyone mind if I got a pic of queen nehalania whole body insted of her fore head from my dvds? ♥Eternal Pink-ready for love♥ 10:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, looks like there's room for it. Go ahead, if you've got a good screen-capture program. :) The one atop this page is pretty cool, but a full screenshot would be somewhat better. --Masamage 01:54, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

il get it after my college lessions ♥Eternal Pink-ready for love and etiquette♥ 09:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Is this one ok? ♥Eternal Pink-ready for love and grace♥ 18:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm? --Masamage 19:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I can try to get a better one the screen keep changing il try useing super's insted of stars because she dosnt move alot in super's ♥Eternal Pink-ready for love and grace♥ 19:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see. You uploaded a totally new one. Hrm, I'm not sure about it. The other one is higher quality. In the future, go ahead and upload new versions of the existing pics. That way we can just revert from version to version rather than having to go through a deletion process with whichever one we don't use. --Masamage 19:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * ok :} Can we get the picture to the same quality to the other one because IMAO i think it looks better than the old one because this shows her looking ....well "evil" the other one she looked tired lolz (no disrespect to who ever uploded it:} ♥Eternal Pink-ready for love and grace♥ 19:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Do we need a pic of old Queen Nehalania? I can get on if we need one ♥Eternal Pink-ready for love and grace♥ 19:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Dead Moon poster
I found an awesome picture! It's the second one down on this page. Isn't that a hoot? I need to find out what episode it's from, so I'm emailing the webmistress. Once we know, I think we should totally put that one up. --Masamage ♫ 01:57, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I thik its the one when chibiusa gets kidnaped by the dead moon circus ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 16:29, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Lizzard replied and gave her permission, but she doesn't remember what episode it's in except that it's probably one around the time the circus first comes to town. I'll do some poking around when I get home. --Masamage ♫ 17:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Queen Nehellenia's dub voice
Can someone go and ask Linda Ballentyne (sp?) if she was the dub voice of Queen Nehellenia? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.97.199.49 (talk) 16:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

I have confirmed that Queen Nehelenia was played by Kate Trotter in the Cloveryway/Optimum dub. it's listed as Lisa Dalbello on here, but after speaking with her on Twitter, it looks like she only remembers recording at McClear Studio which was only used for the first 82 episodes. Also Kate Trotter was credited as Nehelenia in the scheduling sheets I managed to get my hands on from one of the audio mixer engineers of S/SS. It's also on Kate Trotters' personal website under resume > special appearances. -~ Corza Moon (a.k.a Fighter4Luv) (talk) 10:39, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Child Image
Its safe to re-upload the Child Nehelenia image. The only reason it got deleated was becuse the uploader got banned. (Spoke to the deleter)Lego3400: The Sage of Time 01:27, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

English voice of Zirconia
So who provides the Yoda-esque voice for dub Zirconia? Judging from the credits, I believe it is done by Tony Daniels, who previously voiced Jadeite and Wiseman. The only other voice it could be (once again, judging from the credits) is Rowan Tichenor, an actor I am unfamiliar with. Should I take a guess and put down Daniels, or wait for an official source to confirm? 71.232.226.107 01:05, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Over at Talk:List of Sailor Moon actors, User:Fighter4luv occasionally gives updates on email contact with the dub actors. Apparently Tony Daniels wrote back and confirmed that he did not do the voice of Zirconia. (This is all cited to Fighter's own website, of course.) Jason Barr or Benji Plener were the most recent proposals for who the voice might be, what we don't know for sure yet. --Masamage ♫ 05:37, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Long delay. Mystery solved! Zirconia was actually voiced by the great Robert Bockstael (also Prince Diamond), and Rowan Tichenor was only hired to voice Pegasus/Helios. Robert Bockstael is wonderful. I sent him so many video clips of different characters to confirm roles that we thought might be him, and it turned out he was Zirconia all along! He told me "I played a Yoda-type character" and I was so excited, I sent him a short clip of Zirconia, and his response "That's him!!" I have spent the last few months compiling video clips to help me get the info from the actors. Currently speaking with 15 of the original voice actors and working on a COMPLETE cast list document which I will share around once completed. Tony Daniels is probably gonna get sick of me soon though, since only sent him 40 of those videos so far, and there's another 80 to be confirmed lol. ~ Corza Moon (a.k.a Fighter4luv) (talk) 05:00, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Zircona image
What happned to it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.217.34 (talk) 15:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Deleted out from under us, looks like. Charming. --Masamage ♫ 18:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Sections Needing added

 * A general discription of Lemures and their origins.
 * General discription of those Glass Nehlenia clones (Their offical name has slipped my mind) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.217.34 (talk) 13:22, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * For some reason, the lemures sextion currently lives at Amazon Trio. And they're Mirror Paredories. --Masamage ♫ 18:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * thats a better name then the subtitles I've seen :P they call them Mirror Pailas Dollies. Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 13:41, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's one of the theories, yeah. I'm just deeply suspicious of it. X) --Masamage ♫ 16:04, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Queen Nehellenia
In the anime (the episode where it talks about Elios and the truth of the Golden crystal, which is the episode where Chibimoon is captured) it specifically says (by Nehellenia) that her kingdom is on an asteroid that was passing by. I think that might be interesting to add. Also there are quite a few striking resemblances to the astrological theology of Lillith, but I think that's OR.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 04:12, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Episode 163. "And, from the darkness of a cold asteroid, looking down upon that Silver Millennium...there was the queen of darkness." Sounds like a good idea to me. -- RattleMan 04:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree! --Masamage ♫ 04:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Zirconia?
What's with the weird hidden comments about Frank Oz and is the anon user right about the English VA?--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 03:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Just a hint for Frank Oz: this edit and the this. --Cyfal (talk) 06:52, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That was August... do we still need it? --Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 04:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There's been more than that. People come in adding him as the voice actor all the time because Zirconia sounds like Fozzie Bear. --Masamage ♫ 16:27, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Is it one of those persistant fan rumours, like Susan Aceron playing the Kisenian? -Malkinann (talk) 23:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but way more so, because more people know who Frank Oz is and they often come up with this independently. --Masamage ♫ 00:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Zenotine and Xenolite
I remember there being a sectoin on them before buy I can't find it in the edit history. If anyone one can track it down (or feels like redoing it) can they add it in?Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 20:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not that good in Wikipedia techniques, but it seems that the current article is the result of a merger, see here and here. Maybe that is the reason why nothing can be found in this edit history? --Cyfal (talk) 18:19, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I can probably write up a Xenotime/Zeolite section over spring break. They're not particularly complex. :) --Masamage ♫ 18:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I just downloaded scans of the Manga, (No one freak out on me, it's out of print), but I'm still on the Dark Kingdom Arc and its also Mixx/TokyoPop's translation (And I really don't feel like whiteing out all the text to put another, more literal translation. --Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 16:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Nehellenia wanted the Silver Crystal in the manga
There is a mistake in the manga section, where they tell Nehellenia was intending to steal the Golden Crystal: this is only true for the anime, as in the manga it was the Silver Crystal, and not the Golden Crystal, that she wanted to steal. Her goals were to corrupt Earth from within (the reason why she infiltrated Elysion) and take the Silver Crystal, for she considered herself the true Queen of the Moon and thought that the planet Earth should also belong to the Moon Kingdom, of which she would be Queen. But she showed no explicit interest in the Golden Crystal whatsoever. Helios was the only one who knew of it and told the Sailor Senshi of its existence, saying it was the only power that could expell Nehellenia from Elysion, though Nehellenia herself didn't show any previous knowledge of it before the final battle. That's why I changed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.31.143.71 (talk) 21:14, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm, that sounds okay, then. Thank you for the clarification! --Masamage ♫ 22:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. I now have included the brainwashing of the Sailor Quartet into becoming the Amazoness Quartet by Nehellenia, and the revelation of the sailor crystals, to give a more complete view of what happens in the manga. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.139.56.128 (talk) 19:50, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This is to Kerochan no Miko: yes, I am CosmicUsagi from wikimoon. Once again sorry for the misunderstanding. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.139.56.128 (talk) 21:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This is to Kerochan no Miko once again, just because I might have been using my other computer. Yes, I'm Cosmic Usagi from wikimoon, and user 190.139.56.128, sorry for the inconvenience. It is also to say I am the person who posted the same text in the Nehellenia page as I did in the Dead Moon Circus page, I was just using a different computer but yeah, we are the same person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.252.57.133 (talk) 21:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Image
Now that the arc page has been rearranged, there's no good spot on it for Image:Dead Moon Circus.jpg, so it will probably be deleted. This is a shame, because that is a hilarious picture.

I propose that we replace the logo image on this page with that "poster", which is more illustrative of the Dead Moon Circus' happy/creepy motif and would therefore be easier to include actual discussion of, whereas with the logo there's not really much to say except that it represents Zircon. For that matter, the poster image contains the logo anyway, so we could do both. --Masamage ♫ 05:27, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I have proposed merging the Amazon Trio and Amazon Quartet articles into this one. If we trimmed out all the excessive plot info from each, they would be fairly short and heavily dependent on each other, and so would be much better together. For the time being it would be sort of a subsidiary character list--once the full list is up and running we can reevaluate this.

I am very open to opinions about whether or not this is appropriate for the Quartet, as they are technically Sailor Senshi. --Masamage ♫ 21:12, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Technically they are, but other than their brief appearance in this capacity in STARS very little is made of it. I would be unopposed to a merge. JuJube (talk) 21:22, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's been over a week with no objections. If we go one more week and no one minds, I'll proceed with the merge, at least of the Trio. I might need to think a little more about the Quartet, but it won't be much longer. --Masamage ♫ 16:39, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I say merge just the Trio if we must merge (I would rather we not merge at all). The Quartet is just too odd with their existance as Senshi —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs)


 * They are odd, but I also feel like once the article gets trimmed of all its plot information, it'll be kinda too small to stand alone. Would the minor characters page be better for now, moving them to the general character list once that's done? Or something? I don't think I mind them at the Dead Moon Circus article, though, based on JuJube's comments. --Masamage ♫ 00:15, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, I do not mind if someone else wants to do the actual doing of these merges, as I am pretty swamped. --Masamage ♫ 00:15, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I support both of the mergers. -- LoЯd  ۞pεth  05:29, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Group image
I propose replacing all of the images on this page with the area near the lower right corner of this drawing, in which can be seen in a cluster the Quartet, the Trio in human and animal form, Xenotime and Zeolite, Zircon, Zirconia, and Nehellenia. Score! When we bring in the two Amazonian sub-articles, I think we should get rid of those images too, because everyone will be shown. I love these group shots.

If no one objects to this, I'll go ahead and make it happen at the same time as the merge. --Masamage ♫ 18:03, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks to Lord Opeth for doing the merger! I'll put in the group image now. --Masamage ♫ 23:44, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Manga info in the anime info?
"However Helios, the High Priest of Elysion and guardian of the crystal, refused to give it to her, and eventually Queen Serenity had to seal Nehellenia inside her own mirror as a means to protect the earth by containing, as well as punishing, Nehellenia's dark ambitions." I don't remember her sealing Nehelenia in the mirror in the anime... it never showed it nor mentioned it. Instead, it looks like Princess Serenity sealed her in the mirror from the eye catch flash in the last SuperS episode. Princess Serenity is holding the Golden Crystal in this eye catch, indicating that she was the one that sealed her, just like Chibimoon in the preset. If this is too much OR, at the very least this line should be edited out. I believe we already discussed that it should just not be mentioned since English is a definitive language and hates all that concept-based stuff, thus wiki is that too.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 23:56, 19 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, good catch. I still haven't seen SuperS, but for lack of any further info, my recommendation would be to just go with a passive "she was sealed" kinda sentence. (These sections need to be mega-rewritten anyway, sigh...) --Masamage ♫ 01:49, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * What eyecatch are you talking about, Kinno? The only SuperS eyecatch I know of is this one. The only time I know of when an eyecatch was different than what it should have been (in its respective arc) was in Episode 89. Masamage, you really need to watch SuperS. Instead, I think you mean this picture in the episode, shortly before the eyecatch. -- RattleMan 03:13, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't talking about eyecatches like that... I'm talking about where the animators flash an image across the screen so fast that if you blink, you miss it. Trust me, play that scene I mentioned in slow-mo. Sailormoon has a lot of the flashing of images across the screen back from the first series. This one just happens to be significant, dammit Ikuni! Why?--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 16:58, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Parapara
Parapara is a sound effect for rain that's falling down and also for being scattered unevenly as well as the sound of book pages being turned (or the sound of a book being skimmed). (I have an good reference for this, Japanese Pod, Onomatopoeia #3 - Sound and Non-Sound Imitations). Is it original research to say this seems to reflect the character A LOT? Because Pallapalla is certainly scattered, certainly has pockets of knowledge, and certainly is blue like rain.... ^^;; I thought I would check since it might be a stretch.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 16:58, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Ha ha, cool. I think that can be mentioned along with her name. We probably shouldn't do the OR of applying it to her, but since it's what her name means, it's worth at least saying. Adding it with sources after the mention of Pallas seems good to me. --Masamage ♫ 17:36, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Added it, you can check for sentence structure and placement.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 16:06, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * And what about this Japanese style of dancing called Para para? The name seems to be written exactly the same, and it seems to have become popular around the 90's, when the SM series was created.201.252.16.93 (talk) 03:42, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Interesting. I threw a sentence in with a link. (Man, this article needs a copy edit, though.) --Masamage ♫ 23:46, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

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