Talk:Deadman's Island (Vancouver)

Skwxwu7mesh History
Deadman's Island is skwtsa7s. Translates to "island". Coal Habour/Lost Lagoon is ch'elxwa'7elch. Translates to "gets dry at times". Lumberman's Arch is xway'xway (the "x"'s here and underlined). Translates to "Mask Place". I'll see what other history I can find up. I'm now making a list of things to ask, research about relates to Skwxwu7mesh history in relation to Great Vancouver, North Shore, and Howe Sound. It's pretty interesting how teaching can lead to learning. OldManRivers 18:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I added it to the text. Yup, the difference between teaching and learning isn't all that great. Bobanny 19:20, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Other bits of "dead land"
Noting in passing that "dead land" in the usage quoted from Chief Capilano is "memaloose illahee" in the Chinook Jargon and is a term found throughout the Pacific Northwest ("illahee" can mean "island" as well as land in general, and in other contexts prairie/open ground), there's several other instances of either Deadman Island or Deadman's Island and variations in BC.....there's no listing in BC Parks but BCGNIS still has Deadman's Island Provincial Park in Burns Lake - see here - and another Deadman's Island in Victoria's Selkirk Water, in the harbour waters, is now Halkett Island - see here and here; Indian burial ground, Songhees I suppose (or not?) destroyed by fire in 1867; Craigflower Creek was also originally Deadman Creek, maybe related. The one in Burns Lake has probably been absorbed into Burns Lake Provincial Park, I haven't looked into it further; as I recall there's other listings in BCGNIS too....Skookum1 (talk) 18:40, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Deadman vs Deadman's
The island was “officially” designated “Deadman Island” by some far away bureaucrat in the 1930s, but the name that’s predominantly used by officials and non-officials alike remains the historical English name, “Deadman’s Island.” The following show that the widespread use of “Deadman’s” is anything but “urban legend.”
 * A search of the City of Vancouver Archives turns up zero hits for “Deadman” vs. 118 for “Deadman’s”
 * The City of Vancouver and Park Board consistently use “Deadman’s”
 * The “Correspondence and Papers”, government docs from the 1890s (listed in the links section), use “Deadman’s”
 * Major Matthews,  Pauline Johnston, and Chuck Davis all use “Deadman’s”
 * Without a convincing explanation, the claim that “Deadman Island” is somehow closer to "Island of the Dead Men" than “Deadman’s Island” has no weight
 * Wikipedia naming conventions don’t support using the official name over the most common and historical name for places. bobanny (talk) 19:01, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Further, the claim, now removed from the intro, that "Island of the Dead Men" is a Skwxwu7mesh name is completely ludicrous; those are clearly English words, and as attested by User:OldManRivers, himself of Skwxwu7mesh origin and a student of the Skwxu7mesh language, the name is simply skwtsa7s and means only "island". As for the Chinook Jargon name, which is the likely origin of the Deadman's Island name, the usage is "Memaloose Illahee", meaning directly 'dead land", but which can equally and interchangeably mean "island of the dead" (singular or plural). there is no plural in Chinook Jargon, nor is there a possessive apostrophe much less a possessive phrase like "of the xxx"; the only near-to-that preposition is kopa meaning "about", "with" "concerning" but of the scores of Memloose Illahee placenames in the Pacific Northwest it appears in none of  them (there are other prepositions, for "until", "before" etc but nothing close to "of the" or "belonging to").  And all are almost invariably translated "Deadman's Island" (with the apostrophe), when not e.g. "Cemetery" or "Cemetery Island" or in one or two instacnes "Dead Man Island" (because only one dead person was the origin of the name); nb "illahee" can mean pasture, field, land as well as island. To sum up the claim that "Island of the Dead Men" is aboriginally correct is not only POV in nature but also complete and unadulterated pretentious bollocks.Skookum1 (talk) 15:26, 6 July 2009 (UTC)