Talk:Death and funeral of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh/Archive 3

Royal Family reactions
Right now, it's just the Earl of Wessex, the Princess Royal, and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. Are there any other statements by Royal Family members on Prince Philip's death? --Aknell4 (talk) 15:42, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I added the Prince of Wales' statement as well. Also, all of his children paid tributes so Andrew's name has been added too. Keivan.f  Talk 18:38, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Are you sure there aren't any statements by any of Prince Philip's other grandchildren? --Aknell4 (talk) 19:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, Edward's children are young, so they are considered dependents of their parents. On the other hand, Anne's children are not public figures. Similarly, Andrew's children are second class royals and rarely publish statements of their own. That leaves us with William and Harry. Harry has already paid his tribute on his website, but I haven't seen any statements being made by William. Keivan.f  Talk 01:44, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Obituary procedure
Not sure if this can be used anywhere. The article describes how various radio networks within the BBC and commercial sector entered what is termed "obituary mode". BBC radio is briefly mentioned in this article, although it seems a number of independent stations (both national and local) followed a similar protocol.

This is Paul (talk) 20:02, 10 April 2021 (UTC)


 * I don't see where this would fit into the article. --Aknell4 (talk) 22:44, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I wasn't too sure myself, so thought I'd mention it here. We do mention radio briefly in the Operation Forth Bridge section, so possibly it could fit somewhere there, although we may have all we need from the deadline.com article. Having done a bit of reading into this, I see that according to the Independent Radio News article, their client radio stations have a blue obit light that is triggered upon the death of a royal or leading national figure. There is no set procedure to follow, but stations are expected to adopt a respectful tone following the announcement of such news. This is Paul (talk) 23:44, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Bhutan
The King and Queen, and the Royal family of Bhutan offered prayers and lit 1,000 butterlamps in tribute to him on 10 April. In my opinion, this distinctive tribute should be included in the article. Peter Ormond (talk) 22:27, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * It was there, but removed since there's no reliable sources covering it. No, Bhutanese twitter and Canadian Hello! don't count. Kingsif (talk) 23:17, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Guests for funeral
I've prepared the proposed list of guests for the funeral. If there is any change, you can edit it, and copy and paste it in the article when the funeral happens next week.Peter Ormond (talk) 19:33, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Immediate family

 * The Queen, the Duke's widow
 * The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall, the Duke's son and daughter-in-law
 * The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, the Duke's grandson and granddaughter-in-law
 * The Duke of Sussex, the Duke's grandson
 * The Princess Royal and Vice Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence, the Duke's daughter and son-in-law
 * Peter Phillips, the Duke's grandson
 * Zara Tindall, the Duke's granddaughter
 * The Duke of York, the Duke's son
 * Princess Beatrice, the Duke's granddaughter
 * Princess Eugenie, the Duke's granddaughter
 * The Earl and Countess of Wessex, the Duke's son and daughter-in-law
 * Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, the Duke's granddaughter
 * The Viscount Severn, the Duke's grandson

Other relatives

 * The Hereditary Prince of Baden, grandson of Princess Theodora, the Duke's late sister
 * The Prince and Landgrave of Hesse, great-nephew of Princess Sophie, the Duke's late sister
 * The Prince of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, grandson of Princess Margarita, the Duke's late sister


 * This looks great! Do you have any sources for it though? --Aknell4 (talk) 19:36, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Here is a source. Peter Ormond (talk) 19:39, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * That looks good, although I would wait until the day of the funeral so that this list can be verified. Good find! --Aknell4 (talk) 19:43, 10 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Do you think it would be appropriate to add that it is expected for the Duke's children, their spouses, and the Duke's grandchildren to all attend? Kingsif (talk) 21:56, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I would say that it would be appropriate, although it is rumoured that the Duchess of Sussex will not attend for medical reasons. --Aknell4 (talk) 22:00, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Well she said that, it's rumoured she won't attend for many other reasons. But since it doesn't seem expected for any of the other grandchildren's spouses to be there, it seems moot. Kingsif (talk) 22:02, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Then I would say that it would be appropriate to add. --Aknell4 (talk) 22:42, 10 April 2021 (UTC)


 * From the BBC, "A guest list will be released on Thursday." and "the Duchess of Sussex, who is pregnant with their second child, has been advised by her doctor not to travel, Buckingham Palace said." We will be able to put the full guest list up then. Until Thursday we will only have well-informed speculation to go on, so we need to be careful not to sound too definitive. Carandol (talk) 07:22, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Archiving the talk page
How often should this page be archived? Should it be based on time or on how many topics are in the page? --Aknell4 (talk) 00:17, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I'd say do it by time. There's potentially going to be a lot of discussion in the coming days, but any thread should be available for at least two or three days. Archiving it by number could risk discussions being archived too prematurely. This is Paul (talk) 10:49, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * ClueBot III is going to archive it every 3 days now Aknell4 (talk) 17:22, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Bare URLs
Hi and thanks for your contributions. Would please take some time and actually cite the sources that you intend to use instead of throwing them in the article's body as bare URLs? That would save us all some time and give us the opportunity to focus on other parts of the article. Keivan.f Talk 01:31, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay. Peter Ormond (talk) 01:44, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * For info, and not aimed at Peter Ormond in particular, the minimum info from cite web needed is . Replace xxxx with your desired ref name, fill in details as required. Other parameters may be added as required. Mjroots (talk) 05:55, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Death notice photo
Not hugely important, but can we have some discussion/consensus on which photo to use of the death notice outside Holyroodhouse, which I see has flitted back and forth several times? The two options are below. In neither case can one actually read the notice without enlarging the image, which to my mind makes the landscape version vastly superior. The portrait version (currently in the article) just shows a bit of white paper in a big black mount and frame; whereas the landscape version shows the same, but in context, with the notice more obviously mounted on the railings of Holyroodhouse. Eric Pode lives (talk) 14:05, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree. The first photo could really have been taken anywhere. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:09, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree on the landscape photo. Kingsif (talk) 14:39, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed. --Aknell4 (talk) 15:13, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * It's now been changed to the landscape version by User:Serial Number 54129. Eric Pode lives (talk) 15:17, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Ooops. Thanks for the echo, ; I didn't realise you were already discussing it here. Yes, I made a few (bold) image alterations, including that one (agreeing with most of you, luckily, in wanting to provide context), as well as removing an (IMHO) unnecessary photo of a union flag at half-mast (seen one, you've seen 'em all, tbh: and there's another three still there). This also solved a stylistic issue that causes MOS:ACCESS problems. Also removed a dead image frame. Hope that's all OK. ——  Serial  15:24, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Tend to agree with you about photos of half-mast flags: (According to some sources, the flag is lowered to make room for an "invisible flag of death" flying above...!) Maybe MOS:FLAG needs a new subsection! Martinevans123 (talk) 15:35, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Buckingham Palace photo
Can anyone feel free to take the picture outside Buckingham Palace? The current Black and white photo is not good and cannot show public lay flowers for Prince Philip.--Wpcpey (talk) 15:56, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Can you stop demanding? The flowers are all gone, by the way, not that it's as tantamount as you seem to think that we get an image of bouquets next to gates. As for depiction, I truly don't think it would be a valuable addition: surely it's much more potent to show a towering landmark with a flag at half-mast, hundreds of people staring up at it, like some kind of Olympus Has Fallen; and to show the flowers and messages outside the HK consulate (any world leader can tweet condolences to the Queen but it speaks volumes that people in a territory where it's dangerous to show British affection have left physical tributes). Kingsif (talk) 17:23, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2021
Under the "Commonwealth" subsection in "Reaction", add the updated Canadian information posted today on their government website: https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/commemoration-duke-edinburgh/events.html

Perhaps something along the lines of "At 12:30 (EDT) on 17 April, there will be a televised memorial service held at Christ Church Cathedral in Ottawa celebrating the Duke's life followed by a recital played by the Dominion Carillonneur on the Peace Tower carillon." Roderunner01 (talk) 21:13, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:23, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Image
I thought we settled on an image before. What image are we going to use on the infobox? --Aknell4 (talk) 14:33, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, we should not include the Duke's image in the infobox, but rather an image of what happened after his death. The articles — Death of Diana, Princess of Wales, Death and funeral of Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, Death and state funeral of Winston Churchill, State funeral of Edward VII and State funeral of Queen Victoria, all include either a picture of tributes or funeral procession in their respective infoboxes. So, in following that, the current image in the infobox should be kept. Peter Ormond (talk) 15:25, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with Peter Ormond. The new picture is a better option, and consistent with what we have seen in similar articles so far. Keivan.f  Talk 15:39, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * The images of Piccadilly Circus are copyvios - the focus is clearly an image of Philip within the image, which is not DEMINIMIS and does not have a license. The last one was speedy deleted from commons, and this one also needs to be removed. Use one of the free tribute images or wait for one of the funeral. Kingsif (talk) 18:12, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I did not notice that the images were not free. We will replace them with an appropriate image involving the funeral or tributes in the coming days. Keivan.f  Talk 18:38, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah, well for next time, the difference between the Piccadilly Circus photos and e.g. the one in the chapel with a shrine, is that the focus of the P.C. ones is the photo-in-photo of Philip, and that photo on the billboard doesn't have a license. With the chapel shrine, there is a photo of Philip present, but the focus is of the whole shrine and the other image is small and could be removed without taking away image context. DEMINIMIS is a commons policy I've mostly come across with political images, and licensing is still very complex. Kingsif (talk) 18:47, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * At least we've avoided accusations of advertising Gap? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:23, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Will people be able to see Prince Philip's funeral processions? If so, UK users on Wikipedia could get a photo for use on this article. --Aknell4 (talk) 19:19, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * It seems the funeral procession is planned to be extremely short. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:25, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Windsor Castle is enclosed and will presumably not allow the public to see the procession, though there may be official photographers and, at least per sources in the article, there are other memorial services. Kingsif (talk) 22:53, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Dare I suggest that the current image of "The Union Flag flying at half-mast at the Palace of Westminster on 9 April 2021" seems to have very little to do with Philip. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:36, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * The flag is flying at half-mast as a standard sign of respect for the dead. Paying respect to Prince Phillip is appropriate when talking about his death. Carandol (talk) 08:53, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't dispute either of your points. I'm suggesting that, without that caption, there is no connection with Philip. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:58, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, and an image of a coffin or of a collection of tributes usually isn't identifiable without a caption. What is your damn WP:POINT? Kingsif (talk) 09:22, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I had no objection to an image of Philip himself. Especially that one of him gently looking skywards. Sorry if that is too WP:POINTY for you. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:05, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * This page shows the Union Jack at half-mast twice, and repeatedly says flags are being flown half--mast, so the explanation would also need to be repeated. There are links in the fourth paragraph to half-mask and National day of mourning which both explain the meaning. I think repeating the explanation several more times is excessive. I suggest that the meaning should only be explained once on this page, as part of the Operation Forth Bridge section.

After the words 'government guidance' please insert a reference to https://www.gov.uk/government/news/flag-flying-to-mark-death-of-his-royal-highness-the-duke-of-edinburgh I'm a little out of practice. talk] 09:44, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Done. Leventio (talk) 11:52, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Royalty Section
Why does Bhutan have a seperate section in the Reactions section while other countries don't? --Aknell4 (talk) 13:40, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * It is because Bhutan paid special and unique tributes to the Duke. Peter Ormond (talk) 14:39, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Edit request
Prince Luiz of Orléans-Braganza paid respect for the Duke. 201.1.208.158 (talk) 00:16, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Aknell4 (talk) 01:19, 15 April 2021 (UTC)