Talk:Death of Ayakannu Marithamuthu

Reliability of Makansutra as a source
Much of this article, including the major salient claims, are sourced to an article on something called "Makansutra." The link comes from yahoo! entertainment, which already gives me pause. A bit of searching shows Makansutra to be a "food culture" blog. I don't think we should be sourcing murder allegations here.

I have tried to use the Straits Times to verify some of these claims. I certainly can verify the existence of the "curry murder," and I found the 2003 article for the priest's statement. But I can't get the 1987 articles on Lexis for some reason.

For now, I'm going to remove the extraordinary claims sourced to Makansutra. To reinstate, I'd expect to find sourcing that addresses EXACTLY who said that the victim was chopped up into curry. For now, all we have is Makansutra saying that one of the accused finally opened up and revealed the information... as well as a helpful picture of a fish head illustrating what the curry could have looked like. I don't think that's appropriate for an encyclopedic treatment.Moishe Rosenbaum (talk) 00:49, 13 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Note that this article is currently proposed as a DYK - asserting as fact the 'curry' claim, and in consequence grossly violating WP:BLP policy. I've raised the matter at WP:ANI: AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:54, 13 November 2013 (UTC)


 * It's likely that this was used as a source. It contains links to Flickr images of press clippings, including the 27 March 1987 article, the 6 May 1995 article, and the 24 August 2003 sidebar, all supposedly from The Straits Times. Mind  matrix  21:16, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The public library is just a five minute walk from my humble abode, where I can view all archived newspapers at its multimedia station at my leisure. ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 05:57, 14 November 2013 (UTC)


 * We can't cite images of clippings uploaded to Flickr as a source - in fact you probably shouldn't even be linking them, since they are likely copyright violations. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:30, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't say we should; I said "It's likely that this was used as a source". These are likely the articles though, and I provided the links for informational purposes only. Mind  matrix  21:43, 13 November 2013 (UTC)


 * According to this, information about the alleged murder can be found in True Crimes of Singapore (Volume 1) by Pugalenthii, published by VJ Times in 2000 (ISBN 9812211659). I haven't find a copy online. Mind  matrix  21:26, 13 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Note to people looking for sources - I've found that sources vary between Ayakannu and Ayakanno. When searching on Google Books, "Ayakannu Marithamuthu" gave me nothing relevant, but "Ayakanno" did.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 03:01, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Most news sources, including The Straits Times maintain his name as Ayakanno. His death certificate states the same too. ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 05:57, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Page moved
I have moved this page from "murder of foo" to "death of foo" per WP:BLPCRIME. Nobody was convicted for murder, so we should adhere to that.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 01:09, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Has there been a formal declation of death? Kablammo (talk) 16:15, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The disappearance occurred in '84 so it is well past the time that a legal presumption of death could have been made. But the sources are all very focused on the salacious aspects and have gone on the assumption of presumed murder- not on actual facts and I have not seen that aspect of "declared dead" addressed. It would be very ironic if he suddenly turned up alive "What me murdered? No, I just couldnt stand to live in Singapore any longer and went back home to India."--  TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  16:30, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Does a formal determination need to be made (i.e., issuance of a death certificate) under Singapore law? If so, has it been made?  And if not, or if we don't know, should we (Wikipedia) presume death, or continue to apply BLP (as regards the subject of this article) until some determination of death has been made?   Those seem to be the issues.
 * I think we should not assume the person is deceased until determined to be so, and we should apply BLP. Kablammo (talk) 16:45, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * in the section above Bonkers makes a reference to a death certificate. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  16:48, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I had not seen that.  If a reliable source says a death certificate has been issued or otherwise confirms death we can rely on that; without a reliable source we are bound by WP:BDP.  Kablammo (talk) 17:10, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Potential source
If someone has access to old copies of Asiaweek, this looks like it has some non-sensationalist coverage. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  22:22, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

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