Talk:Death of Diane Whipple

Shouldn't this article be merged with Noel and Knoller?
Not to deminish this tragedy but the only thing this lady ever did in her life that is noteworthy was get attacked and killed by two dogs. Wiki demands that the article be about someone of notoriety, not just a common victim of crime. Her bio should be merged with the main article about the dog case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.77.81 (talk) 06:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sadly, I agree. I'd do it myself, but this page is clearly partly a memorial to this woman made by people who loved her, and so I don't have the heart to do it; to do so would makes us sad because it would mean removing details about this woman that establish her as a really great gal, but otherwise have no bearing on the case.  This is the main reason that, I predict, it will be a very long time, if ever, before Diane Whipple is denied an article of her own, on the grounds that she is not notable for anything other than the horrific way she died.  Chrisrus (talk) 02:42, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I've marked it for deletion based on this passage. "Wikipedia is not news, or an indiscriminate collection of information. Being in the news does not in itself mean that someone should be the subject of a Wikipedia article. If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event, and if that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual, we should generally avoid having an article on them. Biographies in these cases can give undue weight to the event and conflict with neutral point of view. In such cases, it is usually better to merge the information and redirect the person's name to the event article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.22.143.55 (talk) 21:36, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree, too. It may be up as a memorial to her, but when the majority of the article is about a dog attack, which itself strays way too far from the apparent subject (Diane Whipple), then it has no business being a Wikipedia page...At least not in this state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.19.34 (talk) 02:37, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * yeah, pro'ly all these articles should be merged into one about the incident and aftermath.Chrisrus (talk) 02:55, 7 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Another solution is to re-title this article as "Death of Diane Whipple", as opposed to simply "Diane Whipple". Under the suggested title, the article would cover the details of her death (as it now does).  Under the current title, however, this article really would need to be a biography of Whipple (which it is not).   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:42, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

What is with the cartoon character references?
Nonsensical, random, uncited...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.192.215.162 (talk) 23:14, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Updated status of murder conviction?
The linked articles about the trial indicate that the murder conviction was tossed out on appeal:"In a later development the state attorney general's office filed papers in April 2003 with the 1st District Court of Appeal requesting that Knoller's murder conviction be reinstated. They argued that for a murder charge, the standard in California only requires a defendant to know that their dog could cause serious injury to a person and not necessiarily death. In short, proscecutors still believe that Knoller kew enough about the risks involved in exposing these dogs to the public to warrant a murder conviction. Attorney Dennis Riordan, representing Knoller, will argue that she did not act in conscious disregard for human life - the standard needed for a murder conviction - when she took Bane for a wak to the rooftop to releive himself on the day of the incident. Arguments this latest appeal took place on March 15, 2005 and a written decision will be rendered by appelate judges within 90 days."

Anyone know the result? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BobbyPeru (talk • contribs) 15:39, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

Zoophilia clarification
"Allegations were also made that the two committed zoophilia against their dogs..." I assume that this sentence refers to the two attorneys, Noel and Knoller, however as it immediately follows an entry about Schneider and his cellmate, as well as a previous entry concerning an unnamed farmer, the identity of "the two" is somewhat unclear. Schneider and cellie? Schneider and the farmer? Cellie and the farmer? (notwithstanding the improbability of Cornfed and his cellie gaining access to the ill-fated pooches from within the confines of the Pelican Bay SHU) Again, I assume that the attorneys were the alleged zoophiles, but clarification is in order.

WTF
Does this have to do with lgbt studies?166.82.201.8 15:37, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Diane Whipple was a lesbian, but doesn't have anything to do with her death. 71.66.230.44 (talk) 14:41, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed; the answer is no. Chrisrus (talk) 02:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Motivation is critical, where charges of murder versus manslaughter are laid. Knoller and Noel adopted a "leader in the Aryan Brotherhood", ostensibly "the most dangerous man in California". Unless the couple had plans to reform him of his antisocial attitudes (never suggested, as far as I know), the two must approve (i.e., share) most or all of Schneider's raisons d'etre (sorry -- I hesitate to call them values). Hatred of all non-straight people, which for some reason is historically important to Aryan supremacists, would be a strong motive for Koller's established lack of intercession during her animal's attack, and any speculated foreplanning of such an attack. If Koller knew that Whipple was in a lesbian relationship, any element of pre-existing antipathy toward all gay people should make the mauling relevant to LGBT Studies. -- doubleplanet (talk) 18:24, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The evidence we have says the dog attacked her because she just happened to be in that place at that time. There's no evidence it had anything to do with her being lesbian. Chrisrus (talk) 17:53, 25 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi, I was just reading through this article (since there is recent news about the denied parole hearing). This sentence sounds awful (tendentious):


 * Knoller, who was known for holding aggressively homophobic views, stood by and did nothing.


 * I'd rather read about the evidence that Knoller did nothing than have to guess whether reputation for homophobic views affected people's testimony versus her actual willingness to help someone who is being injured by dogs. The sentence currently reads like "Knoller, the bad guy, did the thing that bad people do, and stood by and did nothing, believe me when I say this." This cannot possibly be npov, also. I don't know about the details of the story but an implicit accusation can't be interpolated into the middle of a sentence about something else.Createangelos (talk) 00:39, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Dogs
Where they put down? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.69.31.169 (talk) 10:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I recently have seen an edition of the American tv-sequence Law and Order, in which this incident was used as an item. Item: A woman was jogging through a parc; a dog(pitbull/mastiff)ran to her and atacked her; the woman died; research bij the detectives leads them to a deserted adress and some guy as well as to a dog(-fight-)trainer and a convicted man. The track ends at an advocate-couple, who had bought 2 dogs from the convicted man. One of the dogs had escaped from the couples'house and became the attacker/killer of the woman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plus2plus (talk • contribs) 10:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Merge from Marjorie Knoller and Robert Noel
This discussion was originally on the Talk:Marjorie Knoller and Robert Noel. I have moved here to preserve. Mitico (talk) 16:21, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

For Marjorie Knoller and Robert Noel biographies should be about one person, so if maintained this article should be split to be in complaince with WP:BLP. However, these individuals do not have sufficient notability, and per WP:ONEEVENT wikipedia should "Cover the event, not the person."

I have suggested to move this page to 2001 San Francisco dog-mauling death of Diane Whipple, but I am not convinced that this is a good title. Too long? I would appreciate suggestions.

Also, please consider the notability of Diane Whipple. I believe she is notable on her own (though I believe this is debatable and merger may be in order). She meets WP:Athlete as she had "competed at the highest amateur level of a sport." She was twice a member of the U.S. Women's Lacrosse World Cup team and collegiate All-American, and since the NCAA & the World Cup are the highest level of women's lacrosse I think she qualifies. -Mitico (talk) 13:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge with Diane Whipple, which contains much of the material here anyway. I have no problems with keeping that article; even if she were more obscure in life than she was, BLP issues really don't arise for the dead; compare Kitty Genovese, which we would be worse without. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:58, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, it makes more sense to merge into the Whipple article. I sensed there was something wrong with my recommendation. -Mitico (talk) 16:18, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Makes sense to me too. Whipple's violent death makes her cause notable; the attorneys are known only for their inhuman callousness. Twang (talk) 06:03, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

✅. Merge completed. Mitico (talk) 17:00, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

"Hella Nation" Chapter on This
Evan Wright, author of "Generation Kill", just put out a book that collects some of his major investigative articles. One of them is about this case and those involved and goes into great detail, with a phenomenal amount of research. The book is called "Hella Nation" and the chapter is called "Mad Dogs and Lawyers". There are details in that article that can easily be referenced and added to this page. Among them, Whipple actually gave up her Olympic aspirations because of a battle with cancer, the dog owners actually were involved with only one member of the Aryan Brotherhood, Schneider, who was actually a leader of the Aryan Brotherhood and according to officials quoted in the article, the "most dangerous man in California", the couple "adopted" him, there was a bizarre love triangle between the three, implications of bestiality, and numerous other bits of information that could greatly enhance this article if someone is dedicated enough to go through it. I don't have the time. Along with providing crucial information, it is also a really great article and a great book. Wright is a very good journalist. Fermentor (talk) 07:31, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

laughingstock PC redirection
COVER THE EVENT NOT THE PERSON. Whipple was a women's lacrosse player, not a notable athlete by any stretch. She tried to make the olympics and failed. In fact, very few people would have heard of this woman if she hadn't got into a tiff with Marjorie Knoeller that fateful day.

This article leaves out many of the important details and is laughable. Marjorie Knoeller should not redirect here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.130.129 (talk) 17:59, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


 * This article and the one merged into it both proport to be about notable individiuals. This article should be titled and written in such a way that it is about a notable event, not about the people involved who aren't particularly notable.  How about titling something along the lines of "the Diane Whipple Case" or some such? Chrisrus (talk) 02:55, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Breed of dogs
I've looked as several of the sources and the ones I have seen identify the breed of the dogs as Presa Canario. This is also what the "Attack" section of this article calls them. Yet the lead of the article calls them mixes of Presa Canario and Mastiff. I was about to change it but thought I'd leave this post and wait a bit before doing so. Chrisrus (talk) 07:27, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

RfC
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:39, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

New title
I think this article should be about the event, not the person. So, I am proposing that this article be moved from "Diane Whipple" to "Death of Diane Whipple", in line with other similar articles on Wikipedia. Any thoughts? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:55, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Chrisrus (talk) 05:57, 26 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I was actually hoping for some input here, in order to obtain a consensus.  But, if no one complains, I am happy to keep the article's title as "Death of Diane Whipple".  However, the text of the article also needs to be tweaked if this is an article about her death, as opposed to an article about her.  Thanks.    Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:53, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

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Perpetrators
It was decided to merge the article for Marjorie Knoller and Robert Noel into this article, Death of Diane Whipple. I went back into the "old" article of Marjorie Knoller and Robert Noel and added the information here about the perpetrators. Thanks. I started the task, but have not yet finished tweaking it. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:19, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Man-eater
According to several sources Bane and Hera are man-eaters, so they should be on the man-eater page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18D:4701:C4A0:85BB:1127:283A:46F (talk) 20:00, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Not allowed
Why isn't she allowed on the man-eater page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18D:4701:C4A0:4099:4950:5D5C:929E (talk) 20:50, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Burial
Diane Whipple is buried in the Chrome Cemetery, according to Find A Grave. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18D:4701:C4A0:ED1F:3A69:3514:6E2B (talk) 22:00, 17 March 2019 (UTC)