Talk:Deaths in 2014/Archive 4

Non-English surnames
We've had some minor edit warring of alphabetizing those listed with "de" or "de la" in their names. Some want these in the "Ds", while others in the final part of the last name. I'm sure this has been discussed in the past. I am one who thinks the "de" entries or any variation should be listed by the latter suggestion, according to their defsorting on their pages, i.e. Oscar de la Renta sorts as "Renta, Oscar De La", even though the name "de la Renta" is more common to people. The "de" for most languages means "of" for the areas they come from. Thoughts or links to previous discussions? —  Wylie pedia  12:19, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Further information at WP:MCSTJR. WWGB (talk) 13:53, 21 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I once got chewed out by a boss for putting a "de los" folder in a D drawer. That was a physical filing cabinet, but his wrath has probably since carried over to the virtual world. He's likely still a scary dude. I recommend doing what he says.


 * Danger aside, it does make sense. "of" isn't a proper noun. InedibleHulk (talk) 14:21, 21 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I had an office education teacher for two years who was also like that. Maybe they are related? She has long passed but I'm certain is rolling in her grave over today's usage. —  Wylie pedia  14:33, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

J.E. Freeman dead?
I was scrolling through the recent deaths list over at IMDB, and happened upon actor J.E. Freeman being listed there as having died on August 9, 2014. All I've found so far is a message board post from what appears to be someone close to him reporting the death. Rusted AutoParts 17:11, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Quite probably dead, but without a reliable source there is nothing for us to report.WWGB (talk) 00:30, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Kinda strange there's no sources talking about him. He was a pretty well regarded actor. Rusted AutoParts 01:05, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we can wait until the next screen actors guild magazine comes out with hopes his name is in the "In Memoriam" section is he has indeed died? Connormah (talk) 01:23, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if IMDb has him listed as dead then he's likely gone. IMDb can be sloppy with movie credits at times, but they only add death dates if they have proof of the death. I know Wikipedia can't go based on that, of course, but given IMDb's policy he is very likely dead. As Connormah said, we'll probably have to wait for the next issue of SAG to confirm the death since it's been almost three months with no report or obituary. Not that there's any guarantee he'll be listed there, even if he is dead, nor would his omission mean he's still alive. SAG members are only added there if their deaths have been reported to SAG, either via friend, family member, cohorts or the news. Quite a few don't make the cut because their death either went unreported or unconfirmed. Steve London, for example, was left out of the most recent issue's "In Memoriam" section despite unconfirmed reports that he died in June. Whether that means he's not really dead or his death just wasn't confirmed by SAG, who knows? --ThylekShran (talk) 03:39, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * UPDATE: I reached out to film researcher Rhett Bartlett (Dial M for Movies) to see what he could find out. He contacted Freeman's agent, Christopher Black, who confirmed Freeman's death in the evening of August 9. Rhett has written and posted an obituary for Freeman, which can be found here. I will update the necessary articles. --ThylekShran (talk) 16:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Horse Deaths
I've been following the recent death list daily for several years now. Over the past year I've noticed the inclusion of race horses in the list. It specifically says 'people' who have died... and I dunno, I think it's pretty disrespectful to list horses alongside humans with no differentiation indicated. I have noticed dogs on the list a *few* times over the years, dogs that were far more well known than race horses - who, I know, are well known to people in the equestrian world... but. Yeah. I think I've made my point/suggestion for improvement of this section. 50.45.59.197 (talk) 08:45, 5 November 2014 (UTC)


 * having just read the FAQ question about animals - I still note that the list says 'people' in its higher level context... also I'll add that I've seen influential and accomplished humans REMOVED from this list before - for not being 'significant enough' in some people's opinions.  Race horses may  make money for some, but they do not lead 'significant' lives compared to say the municipal servants whose names I've seen removed. 50.45.59.197 (talk) 08:48, 5 November 2014 (UTC)


 * It's not about "significance", but rather "notability". I would venture that a champion racehorse achieves far greater notability than many a civil servant. WWGB (talk) 12:02, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Like Harry Lehman. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:58, 6 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Horses meet several of the Merriam-Webster and Oxford definitions of "people" and "person". Dogs, rabbits, squid, same deal. As for differentiation, you noticed they weren't human, so we're doing alright there. If exploiting a horse's deeds to make humans rich and famous is fine, a little further association in a list of words when they die {usually from humans) shouldn't hurt. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:56, 6 November 2014 (UTC)


 * In any case, we also say Deaths of notable animals and other organisms are also reported here if they first have their own Wikipedia article. If it's OK to have an article on some animal because it was notable enough to warrant one, then why wouldn't it be OK to list its death on a page called "Deaths in 2014" and not "Human deaths in 2014"?  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  09:22, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

This is a chronology of deaths of notable people
Now we have racehorses listed?

My deceased cat was notable to me and the family. Can I add to Wikipedia please? 79.77.226.144 (talk) 08:57, 6 November 2014 (UTC)


 * No. See the thread titled "Horse Deaths" above.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  09:23, 6 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we should change the opening sentence from "This is a chronology of deaths of notable people in 2014." to "This is a chronology of notable biological deaths in 2014." -- or something like that. --ThylekShran (talk) 12:02, 6 November 2014 (UTC)


 * "Notable deaths" would be fine – didn't it say that at one time? It does actually say that non-human deaths are listed, if the IP had read that far. Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:08, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
 * We have been through this countless times over the years; it is a list of prominenet deaths of biological beings, not of human beings. There is nor eason to think our consensus has changed or will do so on this point. You need to prove your cat was notable with reliable sources, then we can start an article on it. But till then....... The opening should be changed to fit with how its been done before. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 16:36, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I have changed the wording, basing it on Deaths in January 2012. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 16:41, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Pete Zamarello
The death of Pete Zamarello (news story and obituary) caught me by surprise. Zamarello had been out of the spotlight for so long, I developed the notion in my mind that he had already died many years prior. Zamarello was one of the pivotal figures in the economic transformation of Alaska in the wake of its transition to an oil-based economy, a period stretching roughly from the late 1960s to the mid 1980s. As such, we're lucky to have the news story, as it's doubtful that many of the best sources can be found easily, if at all, online. Extreme Conditions by John Strohmeyer and Crude Dreams by Jack Roderick, arguably the definitive works on this era of Alaska's history, both discuss Zamarello in certain detail, perhaps more in the former than the latter. He was a substantial modern-day financial benefactor of the Orthodox Church in America Diocese of Alaska and particularly the local St. Innocent Cathedral in Anchorage (a very handsome, striking church building, BTW). The obit states "He had a special affection for what he called "little duckies", which could possibly be a tongue-in-cheek reference to the heated feud he had with then-Anchorage mayor Tony Knowles, discussed in detail in Extreme Conditions. The news story mentions his net worth of $150 million.  While no dates are mentioned, other information can pinpoint this to the mid 1980s.  This is equivalent to the net worth at the time of Wally Hickel, who at that same time was throwing millions of dollars into multiple attempts to regain the governorship he originally relinquished in 1969 to become Secretary of the Interior.  Oh yeah, should I also mention that Zamarello was perhaps hit the hardest of all in the mid-to-late 1980s economic crash, where the price of oil devastated the price of real estate, which in turn led to the failure of a slew of financial institutions? Yes, Zamarello played a role in that, too, mostly on account of how heavily mortgaged he was in building his empire. I offer this up for discussion first, as it seems to me as though Wikipedia tends to give short shrift to people who are primarily or nearly exclusively notable for activities in business, and newly-created articles on notable Alaskans tend to be weighted towards conferring notability based upon the person's job title or status in recent headlines rather than looking at the bigger picture. For example, Bob Uchitel, another heavy hitter in the Anchorage business world at around this same time, in this case long dead (1990, I think), is only mentioned in the barest of terms in the article of his "celebrity" daughter Rachel. This despite numerous ancient sources I've either read when originally published or have later come across which clearly established notability in my eyes. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 06:32, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅. See October 25. He's a redlink here, but clearly is more than just a "local businessman". It's up to those Googlers to save him from being removed when the usual time arrives. —  Wylie pedia  21:29, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Olympians
This is probably analytical personal preference on my part, but, since we list/link near-finite notabilities here, could those who list Olympians and their respective links take the extra step and link the events to the years participated, if applicable? I realize that not all entries have won medals, nor are some particular events even created nor detailed, but linking (what I consider) a generic Olympic year doesn't help a future off-page traveler find that person's particular Olympic notability. Sure, it is probably detailed in the person's article (some are just as generic), but, for the link's sake, try to drop in the event, rather than the encompassing year. Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving to those partaking! —  Wylie pedia  09:55, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Ironically enough, we're missing a ton of skeleton articles. There are four people from skeleton at the 1948 Winter Olympics who are likely to die soon, if they haven't in obscurity already, but then it skips ahead to 2002, featuring the apparently healthy Jimmy Shea (whose father is not named in Jimmy's article or where he supposedly belongs.) InedibleHulk (talk) 04:40, 28 November 2014 (UTC)