Talk:Deaths in December 2013

Peter Graf
Peter Graf was added to the list but then removed on the grounds that he was merely the father of a notable person, which does not make him notable in his own right. But Peter Graf was not just Steffi Graf's father, he was also her coach and manager through her career. He was quite a well known public figure at that time for these reasons. Additionally, the German language version of Wikipedia has had a stand-alone article about him for over 7 years now. He should be included on the list here. 99.192.71.114 (talk) 02:31, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Restore à la Patsy Swayze. Peter was, in fact, Steffi's father, but what would her stellar career be without him as her coach and manager? (EDIT: Has been re-added on Dec 1. It redirects to Steffi, until the time if/when he warrants his own article. If not, he will be removed from here in 37 days.)—  Wylie pedia  04:31, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I know there's a way to add an article from another language Wikipedia to some sort of queue of translation requests. Maybe de:Peter Graf (Tennis) should be added to the queue.  Does anybody know how to do that? Alexbook (talk) 05:07, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Here's how. Unfortunately, the German article is more about slamming his reputation than his accomplishments, in my opinion. —  Wylie pedia  06:16, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Christopher Evan Welch
I have replaced War of the Worlds (2005) with Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog for Welch's "known for". The guidelines for the page say to list what the deceased are notable for. Though the obit mentions the former movie, he is not a main cast member. He's not even listed in the unexpanded cast list on IMDB as his credit is just "photographer" in the movie. He is not known for that movie. He is, however, known for his work as the duagonist "Tails" on the cartoon Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog which ran for 3 years. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:54, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I created his article, here. Jonno  - ( Wanna talk? ) 06:24, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Ive reverted adding Sonic as it was an obscure voice work, while War of the Worlds was highlighted as a career highlight as he frequently collaborated with Spielberg and Allen. It may have been his first work in Sonic, but it's not one of his highlights. Rusted AutoParts 23:42, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It is not at all an obscure work. There's a feedback loop going on here; obits look up his work on IMDB, see the arbitrary items mentioned in the summary, and parrot them.  Sonic is objectively much more notable than War of the Worlds or the other movies.  Please either provide a logical, sourced explanation for your edit or allow Sonic to stay.  That said, I see you have a history of edit warring... EvergreenFir (talk) 03:25, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

The real question: who's claiming he died at 31? Clearly untrue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.81.33.215 (talk) 01:27, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * What? Rusted AutoParts 02:08, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * According to Playbill, a reliable source, he was born in 1965 and died at age 48. WWGB (talk) 02:31, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, but his age isn't the point of discussion though. That's why I was confused. Rusted AutoParts 02:43, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm the one who posed the age question. Not a regular user, so my apologies if I caused confusion. At the time of my last posting, both the Deaths in 2013 page and Welch's page listed his age at death as 31, which was in contradiction with the articles linked. Since there was a Welch subheading on this page, I put the question there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.81.33.215 (talk) 14:57, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Requesting some outside input on this. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:26, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, this type of "discussion" occurs repeatedly, either here or in edit summaries. We don't have a clear page guideline for the inclusion (or exclusion) of notable roles, teams, songs etc. I guess we have to rely on the guideline "significant roles in multiple notable films" from WP:NACTOR. The meaning of the term "significant role" is open to interpretation. WWGB (talk) 04:02, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * So how can this be resolved? Do we discuss which is more notable or just let it be arbitrary? EvergreenFir (talk) 04:17, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Im going by what the obituaries mention. Currently, The Master has been featured in numerous articles, as well as their titles, so I put that in. Furthermore, this just seems like a promotion for an old and obscure voice work, with the editor using IMDB as his source. Rusted AutoParts 04:32, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Here are a few obits that mention Sonic... I admit it's not his most prominent role, but it was an important one. EvergreenFir (talk) 16:48, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, but The Master also appears in those obits. And seeing as its more mentioned than Sonic, I say Master wins. All actors have a first production, it doesn't make it their most notable contribution to acting. Rusted AutoParts 17:51, 4 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I would go with Sonic. That's clearly his most notable role. He isn't even mentioned on Master's page.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 19:24, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The Master is predominant over Sonic in the obituaries. Again, this is mere promotion for an obscure voice work from over 20 years ago. The Master is a heavily accoladed movie while Sonic was only on for two years. Rubicon is an exception as it received acclaim. Rusted AutoParts 19:48, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Somewhere in the ether is a discussion about what to list for prolific actors/musicians. As we prefer notable people here, so should be their succinct mentions of work. Anything with awards or recognizabilty should get priority. In CEW's instance, that's not Sonic, in my opinion. —  Wylie pedia  05:02, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Case of mistaken identity. Looks like we won't need to debate this further. It was a different Christopher Welch. See this. EvergreenFir (talk) 00:12, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Ray Price
Reports say the death of Ray Price was falsely released. If this is true and nothing new has come out to say otherwise, shouldn't he be removed from here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbonds775 (talk • contribs) 04:24, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Most reliable sources are reporting his death but I see less reliable sources claiming he's not dead yet .  IMHO, we stick with the more reliable sources until one of them retracts/corrects the claim. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:01, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Both of the cited stories saying he wasnt dead were from early Monday and had to do with him being taken from the hospital this weekend to hospice. A family spokesman, his agent and one of his best friends (Willie Nelson) have all issued statements regarding his passing. Sunnydoo (talk) 14:33, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Harold Camping
Any particular reason why Harold Camping's been removed? Alexbook (talk) 15:42, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * See his talk page. —  Wylie pedia  16:05, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * That makes sense then. Thanks for the quick response. Alexbook (talk) 16:11, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Radio yakker Bob Grant
Someone ought to add Bob Grant, commercial newstalk radio pioneer, which Wikipedia cites as having died New Year's Eve 2013. I'd do it, but I don't know how to manipulate those bullet points this section utilizes. [signed] FLORIDA BRYAN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.99.21.110 (talk) 18:34, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅--Racklever (talk) 18:45, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Jim Coutts
Died on December 31. I added this entry and capitalized 'Prime Minister', which is the correct usage. Someone keeps changing it to lower case: 'prime minister', which is wrong. Could someone please fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.183.100 (talk) 01:27, 3 January 2014 (UTC)


 * No, lower case is correct in this context. Per WP:JOBTITLES, "positions such as president, king, emperor, pope, bishop, abbot, executive director are common nouns and therefore should be in lower case when used generically". It would only be upper case if it referred to a specific person, such as Prime Minister Lester Pearson. WWGB (talk) 01:41, 3 January 2014 (UTC)