Talk:Deaths in July 2018

Deaths in July 2018
This category needs to have a new sub-heading - "Deaths in July 2018". It is now July 2 2018, and already thirteen names with entries in Wikipedia who passed away in July 2018 are listed under "Deaths in 2018". Vorbee (talk) 18:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
 * That’ll be amended on the seventh when the June entries are moved to their own article. Rusted AutoParts  18:31, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Cultists
While I agree with the consensus that all 13 Japanese Cultists were not notable just for being executed, I STRONGLY disagree with WWGB on removal of the 2 that did not have articles. One was the chief chemist for the group that concocted the Sarin used in the attack...no chemist, no sarin, no potassium chloride, no deaths. That to me is very notable. The other cult member that was removed was the mastermind on a notable family murder in Japan. He was also prominently mentioned in that article. I also disagree with this on 2 other fronts. #1 We are always accused of a western bias and these sets of murders are akin to the Manson family not only in brutality but style. Had any of the Manson family been executed, we would have been all over it. #2 We seem to have a double standard in parts of Wiki....we dont want to duplicate articles between a guy and and an incident...yet when that guy (or gal) that did that incident that garnered world wide attention dies, we dont want to recognize it but stick our heads like an ostrich in the sand. Makes no freaking sense.Sunnydoo (talk) 02:49, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * And I found a way around WWGB anyhoo....all of them are in the Japanese Wiki...might just add all 13 for spite.Sunnydoo (talk) 02:59, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Someone else has added Endo and Hayakawa...both of whom were very senior members of the cult in charge of sections...however, neither of them has an article on the japanese wiki.Sunnydoo (talk) 04:09, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * What concerns me more is any abandonment of basic and consistent styling. The styling is there from the Capital Gazette "list" from June 28, so surely that gives some of us a clue as to how the new "list" should look. And I'm not prepared to easily give up the principle of "one subject line, one source link", so I've ref-named the initial source link to appear on each line. Ref (chew) (do) 06:02, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Gazette had different entries because each deceased had a different role. Most cultists are just that, no differing description. There is also no requirement that every death in a sublist must have a cite, when one cite covers all deaths in the subllist. WWGB (talk) 07:47, 6 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Addendum: There is nothing new about this approach. It was used here, here, here, here and here where only the unique features of each death are reported separately. Common content and references are reported only once. WWGB (talk) 12:01, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not arguing! Ref (chew) (do) 14:10, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Steve Ditko, Artist and Co-Creator of Spider-man
So we're just going to ignore the fact that this notable person has been reported dead for the last three days with no change to this page mentioning his passing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.185.35.34 (talk) 17:57, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * He died in June. He's in the June list. Which is linked at the bottom of the page. Rusted AutoParts  18:01, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Need to read, IP. Research is everything. As is the right tone when posting to talk pages. Ref (chew) (do) 18:38, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Don't bite, it's not Shark Week yet. —  Wylie pedia  @ 19:03, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It’s not like they came in here the most pleasant themselves. Rusted AutoParts  19:11, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Ta very much. I kept an even tone myself when admonishing. Ref (chew) (do) 21:12, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Sorry about the tone. I didn't realize it came off as rude. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.185.35.34 (talk) 22:03, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * OK by me, and thanks for that. Ref (chew) (do) 23:55, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2018
Could you please add Nancy Barbato Sinatra, first wife of Frank Sinatra and mother of Nancy Sinatra? She was 101 years old and passed away on July 13, 2018.,, 95.195.148.218 (talk) 13:04, 14 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Being a wife and mother does not satisfy Wikipedia notability. WWGB (talk) 14:08, 14 July 2018 (UTC)


 * When I added the death of Nancy Sinatra Sr to the Deaths in 2018 list yesterday, I used as my source The Australian Broadcasting Commission. If that's not a good enough source for you, I can use any of the following, all of which this death has made HEADLINE NEWS in the past 24 hours as follows: The Los Angeles Times, The New York Times, USA Today, The Guardian, Fox News, People, Nine MSN, The New Daily, Variety, Independent News, Hollywood Reporter, and many, many more sources of note and reliability. When Wiki users check the Death list, quite often on a daily basis, it is primarily as a News Service, otherwise the presence of the Deaths section would seem superfluous. The death of Nancy Sinatra Sr is clearly news-worthy. I'd like to put it back there. musicmaker 12:46 am, 15 July 2018
 * Newsworthiness is not notability. Mrs Sinatra may have one, bot not the other. If she did not get a Wikipedia article after 101 years of life, why would she get one just because she died? WWGB (talk) 03:02, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't see it that way. One of the criteria of the Wiki deaths section is that an entry in red (i.e: one where no article currently exists) can remain for one month. If by then no-one has created an article - possibly due to notoriety issues, but not definitely - then it can be deleted. This rule exists precisely for the reason I outlined before. People use the Deaths section of Wiki as a news source or news service primarily. We check each day to see who died! Simple as that! Why deny the world's Wiki users the opportunity to see any death that has made international headlines around the world? Many people use Wiki deaths as their first port of call. musicmaker 1:47pm, 15 July 2018 (AEST) —Preceding undated comment added 03:50, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Some cases just don’t meet that 30-day grace period. Some’s lack of genuine notability is apparent off the bat, such as Miss Sinatra. Rusted AutoParts  03:53, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree! But this one surely does. Musicmaker (talk) 04:02, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * If that were the case this discussion wouldn’t be occurring. Sinatra’s only claim to fame is she was married to Frank for a period of time. That just isn’t enough. Rusted AutoParts  04:05, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Rusted Auto Parts, can you get a grip on basic grammar please. You shouldn't be commenting on, or even writing or editing anything on Wikipedia if you can't spell or construct sentences. "We're" means "we are". You clearly meant to say "were". In addition, from your comment before that one, I defy anyone to derive meaning from "Some’s lack of genuine notability is apparent off the bat". I assume it means something to you, but it has me baffled. Musicmaker (talk) 05:08, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * You have nothing else to counter with so you go after my spelling. Neat. Makes it all the more funny you got called out on it as well. My phone’s autocorrect changes were to we’re on me all the time, just didn’t notice this time. Also I don’t see anything wrong with that sentence. “Some’s” clearly refers to some people. “Apparent off the bat” has been explained by InedibleHulk below. But I guess it’s on you for getting confused. So now that irrelevant nitpick was addressed, have you anything else to argue in regards Miss Sinatra? Rusted AutoParts  15:18, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * "AutoParts" is one word, your question is missing a question mark and your first "or" should be a "nor". InedibleHulk (talk) 13:43, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks InedibleHulk. Noted. I deserved that. Musicmaker (talk) 14:12, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Now that that's settled, you also deserve an explanation of what "off the bat" means. InedibleHulk (talk) 14:25, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

The demand that being related to someone more famous be dismissed as making one at all famous is a policy not waived nearly often enough.Royalty who died as small children have their own articles...people who were in the public eye next to someone else for decades deserve some slack.12.144.5.2 (talk) 02:50, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Do they though? Those born into royalty are always going to be met with notability due to the lineage they are born into. Outside of being Sinatra’s first wife, what notability does Nancy have? From what I saw, I don’t think so. Rusted AutoParts  02:57, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * If we're asking for opinions, I too don't see how Nancy senior is notable, merely because she was married to Frank or somehow heads a well-known family. And basic civility without nitpicking about grammar would be nice to see here too, in this instance. No-one ever made a successful point by relying on that. Ref (chew) (do) 05:55, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * She is not notable. She has barely made two public appearances during her life, what matters who was her husband? It was even doubtful whether she was still alive or not before her death, how the hell could she be defined notable. Notable for breathing? No, this does not make any sense. --Folengo (talk) 09:54, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It was even doubtful whether she was still alive or not before her death What? I think you have to be alive before you die at last check. Sunnydoo (talk) 04:01, 16 July 2018 (UTC)


 * I think means that she was a such a minor blip on the celebrity radar that her existence was in question in the years leading up to her death. Certain websites exist for such a reason. —  Wylie  pedia  @ 04:55, 17 July 2018 (UTC)


 * That's what I meant. Deadoralive sucks, it still has Ruby Muhammad and many others alive. Not reliable at all. --Folengo (talk) 08:42, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Recent deaths not listed
All from main Dutch national media sources
 * André du Pon (veteran),
 * Evelien Gans, --> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelien_Gans  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.132.59.83 (talk) 07:18, 24 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Added Gans but not du Pon. His notability is from being the oldest Dutch veteran at 105 (notice there's no nl-wiki). If someone wishes to add him, just based on that, I won't revert. —  Wylie pedia  @ 09:19, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. If you are looking for recent deaths of people with a Dutch Wiki page, see also:


 * Nellie Jacobs-Aarts --> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_Jacobs-Aarts
 * Huub van Heiningen --> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huub_van_Heiningen
 * Herman Schoordijk --> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Schoordijk
 * Jean Toche, --> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Toche
 * Wouter van Luijn, --> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wouter_van_Luijn
 * Pierre Romeijer, --> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Romeijer
 * Cock Rijkens, --> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_Rijkens — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.132.59.83 (talk) 10:59, 24 July 2018‎ (UTC)


 * Gans was a freebie. Feel free to register and add the rest yourself. —  Wylie pedia  @ 00:46, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Croatian or Yugoslav?
If a guy is born in the Socialist Republic of Croatia while it's in the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and leaves before the regular Republic of Croatia becomes a thing, what is his country of citizenship at birth today? InedibleHulk (talk) 06:06, 30 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Croatia did not issue passports until independence from Yugoslavia in 1991, so he was born a Yugoslav. WWGB (talk) 06:13, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Although initially I disagreed with WWGB on the specific entry we edited recently, I now accept that the "[birth-era]-born [new nationality]" format (so, "Yugoslav-born American" in this instance) is the correct way but on that occasion only. Someone born in the Yugoslav era who does not change nationalities must surely be described in terms of their current birth country i.e. Croatian in this case. So, if he switches nationality at some point he's "Yugoslav-born", but if he's a Croatian born in the Yugoslav era but hasn't switched, he's "Croatian", as Yugoslavia does not of course exist any more (and describing them with the word "Yugoslav" can be quite an insult to many citizens of the independent countries which used to be administered by that superstate). Any further thoughts on this? Ref (chew) (do) 13:37, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Only that claims of his character's Lithuanian citizenship stem from confusion with Nikita Koloff. Fixed in his article now, but not before it was picked up for various death notices. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:59, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Jose Apolinario Lozada Jr.
Listed under July 31 with a Tagalog ill template, but it is just a placeholder with no content. I don't think it should have the ill here until an that article is created. —  Wylie pedia  @ 06:12, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * If an article exists at all in another language, I don't think it's our place to judge the quality or relevance of it, even if it is just a line. And I notice that line has been occupying the article since it was started in 2010, so it's not just a death placeholder, as so often happens. As usual, someone has started something with serious intent but not carried it out in their own Wikipedia. So I would say include. Ref (chew) (do) 09:24, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * That "line" translates as "This page has no text currently available, you can search for this page title on other pages or change this page"...for 8 years. —  Wylie pedia  @ 15:47, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, that particular example, as of my time stamp, must have been started in some form or other, because their Wikipedia editors have now templated it as up for quick deletion. Notwithstanding, the principle of refraining from judging the quality of other language articles still holds for me - for consistency and continuity, we should only consider banning all interlanguage links or allowing all. Editing the Deaths page for such links in a case-by-case subjective manner is not something I'd look forward to seeing. (Mainly, due to the endless arguments I can envisage over "this inclusion" or "that deletion". Just more grist for the mill.) Ref (chew) (do) 20:19, 1 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I was the editor speedy tagged Lozada's tl-wiki. There was no content to it. The tag was considered starting a new article, which means not all foreign language wikis work the same. Hence, the creation of this talk post. —  Wylie pedia  @ 20:48, 1 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Issue is now fixed. Tagalog article is actually sans comma. —  Wylie pedia  @ 13:34, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Chrysa Spiliotis
I’m kind of confused to the wording here. On her page it’s says on July 23 she went missing and on the 29th she was identified. Does that mean she was found on the 29th or she was found beforehand and identified later? Rusted AutoParts 15:28, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * From 2018 Attica wildfires, it seems all the seaside dead in Mati were found the next day (24th). Five days later, her body was found to be among them. On a physical level, it was hers from day one, but on a mental level, it wasn't anyone's in particular till the discovery was made. Where to list her as a BDotD therefore depends on what each believes to be reality. Far simpler (and I think appropriate) to treat her as dead on the day she went missing, in hindsight. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:13, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I've moved her to July 23, removed the parenthetical. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:28, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Meg Randall
As mentioned at Talk:Deaths in 2018, she reportedly died on July 20. However, the source is the iffy Boot Hill, citing a Facebook post. Just putting it here, in case more reliable sources get wind of it. —  Wylie pedia  @ 11:08, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Mollie Tibbetts
What is she notable for? Apart from dying? And how has her "disappearance" article avoided AfD? Discuss all or any of these questions. Ref (chew) (do) 17:57, 22 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Probably the inclusionists would argue that the media treatment of her disappearance (and death) satisfies WP:SIGCOV, but if you think it is AfD-able then go for it. WWGB (talk) 23:25, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * My question, not my intention. Because, you know, the brickbats you often receive for not joining in the touchy-feely sentiment of the "community" would make that action both uncomfortable and unsuccessful. All the same, if you read her "Disappearance of" article as a whole objectively and without maudling emotion, it's not at all an event article - it's a plain biography in the same style as any notable person you could name, but about a thoroughly non-notable subject with an unhappy end. Ref (chew) (do) 03:29, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, a lot of them wind up like that. General audiences love college girls more than death itself. Still technically an event article, for our 30-day purposes. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:59, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I see she's still here. Are we counting from the date of discovery rather than disappearance? Hardly seems right. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:43, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I just removed her entry, but won't fight if it goes back for some half-decent reason. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:57, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * She stays as long as the article exists, per Talk:Deaths in 2017/Archive 1. WWGB (talk) 05:07, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh right, Joe and Kitty. All coming back to me now. I still agree with past Hulk, but he didn't win back then, either. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:22, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Not to argue, but for philosophy's sake, how is redirecting to an event article different from redirecting to a TV show article? InedibleHulk (talk) 05:03, 23 August 2018 (UTC)


 * For one, TV articles don't have politicians involved. —  Wylie pedia  @ 07:14, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * You're absolutely right. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:54, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, where'd she go all of a sudden? Ref (chew) (do) 06:10, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Removed with this edit but I reinstated it as no proof of date of death. WWGB (talk) 06:41, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Isn't it enough that the Assistant Director of Iowa’s Division of Criminal Investigation says his guys believe she was killed the night of her disappearance? InedibleHulk (talk) 03:05, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Good find! I agree her death should be listed on July 18. do you agree? WWGB (talk) 03:11, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I do indeed. Rusted AutoParts  03:14, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Mollie Tibbetts (again)
Is there some reason why her cause of death is not listed here? I thought I had read that the coroner (or medical examiner) made a pretty precise conclusion ... no ... ? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:57, 26 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I think it's because the ME lingo is "multiple sharp force injuries", which isn't page-specific ("stab wounds, incised wounds, and chop wounds"), but also the ME report also states "Further examination may result in additional findings." But then I'm losing interest since the political dustup. —  Wylie pedia  @ 17:12, 26 August 2018 (UTC)


 * So, can't we list "murder" or "homicide", generally? Or "murder/homicide by sharp force injury", specifically?   Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:49, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * No homicides, no accidents, no natural causes. Just suicides. A reasonable person has sufficient hints to the manner, as is. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:05, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * If you look at Deaths in July 2018, you'll find she's been moved there. Ref (chew) (do) 06:16, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Story checks out. There's still the small technical quibble of the moon and stars' whereabouts over the cornfield that day, thus potentially significant historical ramifications of living after midnight, but in simple quantum mechanic terms, she can stay at the 18th and 19th for now, so long as nobody checks. If someone must check, I'm content with whatever they are. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:10, 27 August 2018 (UTC)