Talk:Deaths in June 2009

David Carradine
David Carradine actually died on June 3, not June 4. Remember, he died in Thailand, whose time zone is about one day ahead of the United States of America's time zone. Take a look at his article. Klonk (talk) 15:02, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Plane crash victims
Could someone please explain why this is being treated differently than the 2 NFL players who were lost at sea in March? In both cases it was confirmed they were aboard the plane/boat during their mishsap. In both cases the bodies have not been recovered. The boat was recovered, and parts of the plane have been recovered. In the case of the boating accident there was a survivor who confirmed what happened to the football players. So I ask, why are the plane crash victims listed here, but not the boating victims? If victims whose bodies are not recovered are not allowed until they are declared legally dead, the same rule should apply everywhere. (For what it's worth, I believe they all should be included and also Sonny Fai) BurienBomber (talk) 01:20, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I am tempted to avoid commenting on boating victims by invoking WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. In the case of the deaths on Air France Flight 447, however, each of the listed deaths is supported by an independent reference from a reliable source. That meets the requirement of WP:SOURCES. It is evident that the people concerned were on the plane, the plane crashed catastrophically, there were no survivors. In the case of boating victims there would have to be more latitude as they "could" be swimming/floating/on an island for some time after the sinking. That is not at issue here since there is no mention of possible survival. Unfortunately this is not a Cast Away scenario. WWGB (talk) 02:09, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Not waiting until the 7th
I thought the policy was to wait until the 7th (or after the 7th) to start a new month. It seems that every month someone just has to make the edit early. The new policy needs to be posted at the top of the page so that there can be no excuses for doing this early come July. Juve2000 (talk) 01:07, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The relevant edit occurred here . So many other edits followed that a reversion could have become very messy. Since the "agreement" is neither policy nor guideline it is impossible to enforce. At least it happened around the 6th and not the 1st. WWGB (talk) 01:20, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree with putting a note on the front page. I suggest something like "Currently, the consensus is that at the change of a month, the previous month remains on the Recent Deaths page for 7 days. Please discuss this if you feel differently. Fol de rol troll (talk) 16:34, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Supercentenarians
Can we stop adding non-notable supercentenarians to this list? If they don't have an article about them at their time of death, they're most likely non-notable.--Sevenagechunt (talk) 22:31, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. They tend to remain on the list out of respect until deleted one month later. Unless they are "world's oldest" or "nation's oldest" then they are not notable. Old age is merely a function of heredity, lifestyle and statistical variation. WWGB (talk) 01:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Old age is merely a function of heredity, lifestyle and statistical variation." And so is being the oldest person in a particular group or nation, so I would prefer that unless someone is notable for some other reason (as was Jeanne Calmont) that the lists aren't clogged up by 'oldest person' entries. After all, there will always be another one.Be best (talk) 00:23, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

if your gonna use that logic then we should only list people who have articles. 74.226.189.195 (talk) 15:59, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Omar Bongo
He was reported as being alive by Reuters, but now they are reporting he has passed away... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.202.248.92 (talk) 15:10, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Olivia Munn
Olivia Munn was reported dead on CNN's bottom feeder today. Confirmations? Scarletspeedster7 (talk) 19:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Until you get an actual source, don't add her name to Deaths in 2009. Google reveals nothing.  freshacconci  talk talk  19:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * One blog has reported her death. Nothing substantial as of yet.  freshacconci  talk talk  19:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems like that's a joke site. This is probably all a hoax.  freshacconci  talk talk  20:16, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Wrong dude? The link for "John Crellin" links to the wrong John Crellin. I'd fix it, but I have no idea how. 69.76.238.37 (talk) 20:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Ramses Shaffy
The article supposedly supporting the singers death, does not do so. In fact, it stipulates that Shaffy is NOT dead, and goes on to tell a story about an ex politician trying to sell stock photos of celebrities (including Ramses Shaffy) under the guise that it was a better photo "than the horrible one she recently saw in the papers" (Shaffy is indeed terminally ill). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.59.236.84 (talk) 00:30, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Hortensia Bussi
Why would anyone change what I wrote for Hortensia Bussi (Chilean First Lady, widow of Salvador Allende) to what it said before I changed it and what it says again now (Chilean widow of Salvador Allende)? She WAS, in fact, the First Lady, and "Chilean widow of Salvador Allende" sounds like he had widows of different nationalities, e.g., American widow, Canadian widow, etc.


 * Since finding the article First Ladies of Chile I am happy to revert my deletion. WWGB (talk) 02:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!!! :)
 * Yes. Hortensia Bussi is notable. Salvador Allende is our Götzenbild. --Paukrus (talk) 13:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * i don't think there was any question of whether she is notable, but rather exactly how she should be described. cheers,  tomasz.  13:32, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Neda Soltani
I changed her description from "student" to "student protestor" on the basis that she was protesting at the time of her death; had she not been a protestor, she would be neither dead nor notable. It is for her activism that she seems to have become a figurehead, so I felt this page should acknowledge that. Happy to be overruled though. EJBH (talk) 21:53, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no consensus that she was a protestor, but rather an observer of the event. WWGB (talk) 00:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I would agree the news reports I heard say she was an observer and although she supported the protesters it is unknown where that line lies re :Observer/Protester.

I do not know if I am posting my concern to the correct place, or if it matters. As I type I see others have raised the same concern, that Neda was an observer and not a protestor or activist at the rally in Iran where she was killed. I believe this matters because it highlights further the cruelty of Ahmadi's regime, and heightens the injustice of her killing even more if she was merely an onlooker. I believe this point also plays a role in determining the overall historical meaning of her death. Linda Redmond (talk) 20:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Linda Redmond (talk • contribs) 20:42, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Farrah Fawcett's cancer death
While it's been reported in various outlets that Fawcett died following a three-year battle with anal cancer, there seems to be some editing controversy in mentioning that it was specifically anal cancer, due to the "embarrassing" or "humiliating" nature of the disease. Let's acknowledge that there is nothing disparaging in specifying the type of cancer; that is, colon and rectal cancers are not more "dignified" than anal cancer (and, as a side note, are entirely different from the cancer that ailed Fawcett). As far as Wikipedia is concerned, the fact is that Fawcett suffered from anal cancer, and mentioning this fact should not be interpreted as an insult to her. Peace. 70.182.222.209 (talk) 20:35, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

My concern, aside from the lack of dignity, is that it has been reported in reliable sources that the cancer metastasized and went to her liver. Which one killed her?


 * Fawcett's death is likely to increase public awareness and early detection . It should not be hidden away for reasons of modesty. WWGB (talk) 06:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored; it provides relevant facts. Cancers are described by their organ of origin. She died of anal cancer metastasised to her liver, hence anal cancer is the cause, and what will be written on her death certificate, without an autopsy. Whether death is caused by the primary neoplasm or a secondary is immaterial to that. Information yes (talk) 12:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Steven Wells
There is, unfortunately, no doubt that Steven Wells is dead. What is in dispute is the date of his death, with the main page at the moment listing him both for 23 June and 25 June. His biography states he died on 24 June. Now a certain amount of mystery and uncertainty undoubtedly befits his memory but can we get the information accurate? Sam Blacketer (talk) 21:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm confused when did he die? Because we got three dates going on at the moment and if there is no confirmation I think they all need to be removed. User:Stevencho (talk) 22:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nobody knows, that's why it's in dispute. We should add a date uncertain note pending more solid confirmation. It would be pretty inappropriate to remove the listing of the death of a notable because of a minor dating discrepancy.  tomasz. 

Amnon Kapeliouk
At Amnon Kapeliouk, an anon made this comment:
 * "If this person was 78 at the time of his death he could not have been "Israeli-born" since no such state existed at the time of his birth."

I tried to rephrase the listing here, but was reverted because "Place-born" is apparently standard format. I can't say I really care, but this issue does look like it needs addressing.  Rami R  12:30, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Holy carp... And I try to keep off the whole damn Israel situation. Circeus (talk) 18:05, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Matthew Smith
Gladys Schuster Carter, a member of the Army's 6888th Central Postal Directory Battalion during WWII, one of the first African American WAC's to be posted overseas, has died. URL is http://hamptonroads.com/2009/07/first-black-woman-serve-overseas-wwii-dies-87. Can someone please post for me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.18.144.210 (talk) 23:01, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Rim Shaigalimov
Rim Shaigalimov, a Russian activist, has died in prison the last few days as indicated at http://www.rferl.org/content/Russian_Opposition_Activist_Dies_In_Prison/1766232.html. His death appears noteworthy enough to include, but it would appear that there's quite a bit of a dispute on how he died (falling, suffocated, committing suicide, etc.). What is the preferred annotation used in situations like this? Cascadiance (talk) 23:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jackson/Cause of death
The coroner's office has declared the cause of death to be of a lethal injection of Propofol and the case is now a homicide. Also, I'm pretty sure almost every article I read about Michael's death said it was BELIEVED to be a cardiac arrest (but his death certificate never had a cause of death on it) that killed him, but it obviously isn't anymore. So... Shouldn't this be changed?

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/jackson-died-from-lethal-levels-of-propofol/ Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's TMZ. It's got the search warrant and whatnot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.57.173.124 (talk) 10:10, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand why "it obviously isn't anymore"? No-one is saying that he did not die of cardiac arrest. It's just that the arrest may have been precipitated by an illegal act. That in no way changes the cause of death. WWGB (talk) 12:26, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

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