Talk:Deaths in November 2011

Dorothy Howell Rodham
If ever there was an example of notability through association then this is it. I have already noted on her discussion page that apart from being her daughter's mother her sole claims to fame are being a homemaker, moving house several times and failing in her studies. Should she be here? Should she even have an article about her as it appears to be nothing but a list of trivia as is the case for her husband's article? Before you reply please read the article. Williamgeorgefraser 16:51, 1 November 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Williamgeorgefraser (talk • contribs)


 * I agree with you, but AfD has been tried unsuccessfully before: Articles for deletion/Dorothy Howell Rodham. WWGB (talk) 00:11, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced of any individual notability either, but the place to discuss it is on the talk page at her article. Here we just list people if they have an article - until such time as it may be deleted, she makes the list here. Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:58, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Peter Roebuck
He is described on this page as "English-born Australian cricketer and columnist." In this report http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-13/roebuck-death-not-suspicious-police/3663634 the police statement describes him as a British national and I can't find any reliable source that says he ever took up Australian citizenship. Anyone object to him being described as "English cricketer, cricket writer and commentator" instead? Capey (talk) 11:15, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * How hard did you look? There are literally dozens of references to his citizenship status. "Peter Roebuck, who has Australian citizenship" . "Roebuck, who holds Australian citizenship" . "PROUD as he is of his Australian citizenship, English-born cricket commentator Peter Roebuck..." Hack (talk) 11:31, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * And now it says "British-born Australian cricketer and columnist". It needs to change because he was never an Australian cricketer. Maybe just stick a comma after "Australian"? Or how about "British/Australian" to show his dual nationality? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Capey (talk • contribs) 09:25, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I changed it to British-Australian as it sounds more in line with WP policy. He's Gone Mental 09:38, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Basil D'Oliveira age
Concerning his age - according to most record books he would have been 80 when he died. However according to Basil via his official biographer he was born in 1928 and lied about his age to get a professional contract. Which date should we trust? Topcardi (talk) 01:03, 20 November 2011 (UTC)


 * On the article talk page it looks as if the three year lowering was in stating his birth year was 1934 not 1931. I think there must have been birth registration in Cape Town at this time so there must be an authoritative answer available for someone to find. Sam Blacketer (talk) 18:03, 20 November 2011 (UTC)


 * There may well be, but if no media outlet has discovered it since the issue first arose I think we'd struggle to find it. The discussion on his talkpage has now decided to acknowledge both dates, so I've edited his entry here to "80 or 83". EJBH (talk) 16:49, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Ludwig Hirsch
I have removed the term 'suicide by defenestration' as it implies that he was thrown from the window rather than jumping. Please see the defenestration for details of the word. AndrewJFulker (talk) 09:03, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I placed it back. If you disagree, change the main Wiki article. The article on defenestration clearly states "Although defenestrations can be fatal due to the height of the window through which a person is THROWN OR THROWS ONESELF or due to lacerations from broken glass, the act of defenestration need not carry the intent or result of death." There are also several examples given in the events section that were solo defenestrations.

Additionally, the suicide part should give it away. If it was a murder, it would be a homicide. Now one could argue whether suicides should be further detailed as is commonplace on this site (eg suicide by gunshot, suicide by poison, suicide by jumping etc.). But I have always erred in the way of more details as opposed to less.

The other part of this argument is whether this is suicide by jumping or suicide by defenestration. The article says he jumped out of a window, which is the definition of defenestration (doesnt matter if the glass or the height kills you, its the act of doing it). The act of jumping implies you jump off of something like a building or a bridge (But if he jumped off a bridge, would it be suicide by jumping or suicide by bridge?). But you cant jump off a window- you have to go through it, which is defenestration.

Or another good example is suicide by cop. The bullet kills you and normally it would be a homicide because it was fired from a gun not held by you, but is listed as suicide by cop because of intention. Clearly his intention here was to throw himself out of the window to his death and such should be listed as defenestration. Sunnydoo (talk) 12:03, 26 November 2011 (UTC)


 * It's the second time in recent days the term has come up, it was used for Peter Roebuck too. I have no great opinion on the semantics of pushing and jumping, but I don't like the term anyway. Partly because it seems over-detailed, and partly because it's not the act of exiting via a window that kills people, it's the act of falling from a great height. I'd rather see them as "suicide(s) by jumping", that's what kills them. EJBH (talk) 17:08, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * PS just seen that Sunnydoo touched on this too. Firstly, yes you can jump off a window, most buildings have windowsills and ledges; and secondly, does it matter whether you're jumping "off" the window? You're jumping, that's the important thing. If it has to be "off" something, it can be off the building proper. EJBH (talk) 17:12, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

If you use Google Chrome, you can highlight the part you want translated and it will do the translation for you. It says he threw himself from the window in the hospital after talking to his wife. That is defenestration not jumping. Sunnydoo (talk) 01:26, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Dane Searls
Dane Searls, 23, Australian BMX rider, diving accident. [7] 3 lines about him, 2 of which is about how he died. Don't think he is in anyway notable as his sole claim to fame is a obscure biking event. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.204.194.133 (talk) 13:02, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You can discuss this on the Talk:Dane Searls page. Racklever (talk) 13:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Eithne Kenny

 * Eithne Kenny, 93, mother of Taoiseach Enda Kenny and husband of Gaelic footballer Henry Kenny (1936 All-Ireland winner).
 * , appears to fail WP:NOTINHERITED. WWGB (talk) 00:53, 27 November 2011 (UTC)


 * What! This is the Taoiseach! I suppose the same'd be said about Obama's mother. The entire first official visit by Nick Clegg has been cancelled and the British–Irish Council's summit postponed.
 * Cancelled, per the above; if you wish to pursue it, ask on WP:DRN.  Chzz  ►

Chester McGlockton
Former Los Angeles Raiders player Chester McGlockton died today, but is not on the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.202.108 (talk) 18:07, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Patrice Oneal
He died on the 29th not the 28th of November. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.252.99.2 (talk) 09:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I suggest you discuss this on Talk:Patrice O'Neal Racklever (talk) 10:15, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's true. It's on his own website, patriceoneal.com, and other sources. He did die on November 29. Please move his entry to November 29. B-Machine (talk) 16:49, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

✅. WWGB (talk) 01:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111201180830/http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-23/us/us_obit-cnn-stan-case_1_cnn-worldwide-car-crash-colleague?_s=PM%3AUS to http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-23/us/us_obit-cnn-stan-case_1_cnn-worldwide-car-crash-colleague?_s=PM%3AUS
 * Added tag to http://english.samaylive.com/nation-news/676496808/renowned-writer-indira-goswami-dies.html

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Deaths in November 2011. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111125202454/http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45383682/ns/world_news-europe/ to http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45383682/ns/world_news-europe/

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