Talk:Deaths in October 2013

Herman Wallace
Herman Wallace of the Angola Three passed away on the fourth of October. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/05/us/herman-wallace-held-41-years-in-solitary-dies-at-71.html 198.85.228.129 (talk) 18:49, 7 October 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅. Thanks for the heads up! –  Wylie pedia  19:59, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Mats Olsson
See comment on Talk:Mats Olsson (musician). Seems like the date is set when then obit was published. --J. P. Fagerback (talk) 09:38, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This is the correct place to discuss whether Olsson's DOD should be fixed to October 13 2013, or returned to "death announced on", which I believe was October 14 2013 using the original reference. Given the comment on Olsson's article talk page (where the editor has posted to say that he has seen it in a Swedish paper publication, even giving the page number), I would tend to disbelieve the accuracy of the current reference, discount it, and revert to any one of a plethora of similar Swedish-language sources which "announced" the death, variously on October 13 or October 14 2013. When something comes along which 'cast-iron' confirms the exact DOD, then the information can be updated. Let's not try to be too tidy just for the sake of being tidy. No-one likes 'loose ends', but sometimes it can't be helped. If there's a vote, I'd therefore say remove that reference. Ref (chew) (do) 23:38, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hurrah! Someone's diligence has paid off (not mine). An internet reference to support the September 11 2013 DOD has been found, and the entry now moved to that page. Good work. Ref (chew) (do) 10:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Frank Landry
This guy's link ain't doing so well on notability. The only source which refers to his death is from the "Encyclopedia Metallum", which I think has been criticised in the past for not being a reliable source (though exactly when and for why escapes me at the moment). Furthermore, the band links featured recently led to incorrect pages, were then redlinked and subsequently removed. General internet searches (on which I wasted far too much time) came up with one extra band, 'Shades of Blood', whose roster contains/contained a Frank Landry on drums (one of his established instruments). However, that band prove as elusive as his other three, and I even find myself wondering if it is even the same Landry. So, as far as trying to even establish an age, I think this is a waste of time, and a relatively minor name in the genre. I'm done with it personally. How about you? Ref (chew) (do) 16:19, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Deleted. WWGB (talk) 07:00, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Alvin Gottlieb
Alvin Gottlieb, who ran the Gottlieb arcade game company (and was the son of David Gottlieb, the founder), passed away on October 14th. Source: Pinball News. http://www.pinballnews.com/news/alvingottlieb.html (I don't know if that is a credible source or not, but a memorial service was held at Pinball Expo on October 17th.) Ron Stoppable (talk) 18:28, 18 October 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅ with a different source. Thanks for heads-up! —  Wylie pedia  19:08, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Joe Montgomery
I added this entry recently, only to see it responded to with, with the following in the edit summary: "Montgomery: a school sup is not a notable job". First, some data: I dug up various editions of the Alaska Educational Directory, which was published annually by the territorial and state departments of education for over three-quarters of a century. I don't know of its current status, but a lot of publications of this sort migrated into becoming databases on the state website over the past 15 years. From the available editions, numbers associated with the Anchorage School District when Montgomery was superintendent:

Teachers were referred to in various editions as both "teachers" and "professional personnel". That number does not include support staff. A recent ratio of ASD employment shows roughly one support person for every two teachers. Census data from 2008 shows that firms ("firms" being the Census Bureau's term, for what exactly I didn't spend the time to figure out) with 2,000 or more employees make up only about 7,000 out of the nearly 6,000,000 firms which provide employment.

Contrast this was being a state representative, which is how it appears other editors wish to exclusively portray him, from the looks of this and other editing activity regarding him. Montgomery served as one of forty members of the Alaska House of Representatives. Based upon when he served, it was from a district whose composition was determined by the 1970 Census. Based upon that data, this means that each member of the House represented an average of 7,510 people. Montgomery served in a two-member district (elected at-large), which means that it was deemed to contain as near to 15,019 people as practical at the time it was created. Here are some other population figures from the time Montgomery served, from various census reports and the Alaska Population Overview published annually beginning the in late 1970s by the state department of labor:

Just the numbers alone makes this appear suspicious. I don't see how you can further explore the shifts in population without venturing into OR territory, but any way you cut it, he still effectively represented no more than about 10,000 people, double that if you take the two-member district into account. Then, there's the other aspect. Where you come from, maybe you celebrate lifelong professional politicians such as Phil English and Jerrold Nadler as being model politicians. Just perhaps, you buy into the notion that the bumper crop of full-time politicians which have appeared in every state legislature in recent generations are reflective of the way it's always been. Or maybe you just don't realize that someone collecting a legislative salary who earns no other income is the sort of person to have plenty of time to write themselves up on Wikipedia as a conquering hero, earning "respect" from the uninitiated.

Here in Alaska, and I'm certain in many other places as well, we have a tradition of citizen politicians. I realize that trying to make sense of events which happened in the 1970s may be difficult for many editors, but it's absolutely necessary to at least try and employ a proper historical perspective. Montgomery was notable in Anchorage for being school superintendent, and this notability is what allowed him to be elected to the state house, not the other way around. During his two terms, he served in a two-member district. The other member was Joe Hayes, who was notable for founding a major civil engineering firm in Anchorage. This notability led to him being elected to office. Same for Ed Dankworth, who served as the state senator from the senate district coterminous with this house district. Dankworth was notable for being head of the Alaska State Troopers when he was elected. Now, it just so happens that Dankworth and Hayes both became notable as politicians in their own right, irrespective of prior notability. Of course, looking at the lack of articles on either, contrasted with this newly-created article which says little other than pointing out that he was a former politician who died recently, makes me wonder where our priorities are at in terms of covering political biography on Wikipedia. I'm pretty tired of pointing out that the various WikiProjects which cover these things have a blatant bias towards covering only topics pertaining to current legislatures.

I'd rather go get dinner right than continue to belabor this. This is far from the only instance I've seen of what appears to me to be an aggressive effort to paint those who have held elected office strictly in that light, no matter how notable any of their other activities may have been. It's really more a series of black-and-white assumptions based upon job titles than anything else. That's a subject for another talk page, however. Also, the recent controversy over Theresa Obermeyer proved an astounding amount of ignorance regarding the scope of the Anchorage School District as a political entity. Looking at various Alaska Educational Directory editions, I see that the Anchorage School Board consisted more of political players than of PTA moms back in the 1960s and 1970s. Guess what? It's still the same way today. Do you think that Eric Croft and Bettye Davis are currently serving on the board because they are concerned parents, or because they may have problems with getting elected to other offices? Really, think about it. RadioKAOS –&#32; Talk to me, Billy  04:41, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I met you halfway and left in the "school administrator" part. The goal on this page is to be as concise as possible. Histories belong in the bios. —  Wylie pedia  05:17, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed. The Governor noted State Flags Lowered for Fmr. Rep. Montgomery. As an independent source, it suggests to me that his political career was the most notable aspect of his life. WWGB (talk) 06:16, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Dionicio Loya Plancarte
This person died on March 15th of this year. B-Machine (talk) 19:16, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * "Reportedly", says the only source found announcing the "death". It needs confirming with a reliable reference before it reaches the Wikipedia page, and, anyway, if or when you find that reliable source confirming actual death, please take it to Deaths in March 2013, not here. Thanks. Ref (chew) (do) 23:16, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Lou Reed
He has no cause of death listed, but the announcement on NPR included the following: "Reed died Sunday morning on Long Island of complications from a liver transplant earlier this year, his literary agent, Andrew Wylie, said." http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2013/10/25/240819314/lou-reed-beloved-contrarian-has-died Challenger l (talk) 21:02, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅ ... NYT reports "liver disease". WWGB (talk) 23:15, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Antonia Bird age of death
There seems to be some confusion over Ms. Bird's age when she died this year. Most sources are saying she was 54 and/or she was born in 1959. However, at least two reliable sources and her Wikipedia page, say she was 62. I'm also going to raise this at the WP:BLPN for help. -- Jprg1966  (talk)  01:06, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

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