Talk:Decemberunderground

Genre
This album is Alternative Rock with heavy influences of Synth rock, classic Hardcore Punk, and especially Post-Punk. It does contain mild Cold Wave elements, in terms of the genre Cold Wave being the French answer to The Cure's album Pornography (dark Post-Punk, almost borderline Gothic Rock). Besides, Ronan Harris of the Futurepop group VNV Nation had a hand at mixing this album. Speaking of Futurepop, Love Like Winter is based on said genre (was originally a track for the Futurepop/Synthpop side-project of Davey Havok and Jade Puget, Blaqk Audio). NineInchNailed 22:45, July 30, 2009.

I would describe this album as Synthrock because it is completly different to the others and if you listen to prelude 12/1, Miss Murder, Summer Shudder, Love Like Winter, 3mm, and endlessley she said it has the electronica theme in but it also has elecments of post hardcore, maybe gothic rock, hardcore punk, and alternative rock.

Glam punk? No. Hell no. I'm changing it. 75.73.139.144 (talk) 23:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Track titled "(unlisted)"
The 13th track on many bootlegged and torrented versions of decemberunderground is titled "(unlisted)". It's time is 1:46, and I'm not sure what it is. Any clue as to which of the bonus songs it is? Xephyrwing 22:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * It is actually part of affliction. I won't bother reminding you that those copies of Decemberunderground are illegally owned/downloaded. Flash8806 05:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Main Discussion
There's no proof that On The Arrow, Jack The Ripper, Fallen like the Sky, and Don't Change were recorded during the Decemberunderground Sessions. Hunter confirmed Fallen Like the Sky was recorded separately, the credits on Don't Change from the Miss Murder single are different than that of DU. Most likely these songs are all demos recorded before the DU sessions.

Hunter said he hadn't heard of half the tracks on that track listing on the AFI OMB. So I thought I should nip that in the bud. Unless he was lying, in which case I'll eat my hat. ====

The AFI wikipedia lists AFI as just Punk Rock, so I changed the album genre to that too. There isn't really any need for having 5 genres trying to describe AFI's unique sound. It just doesn't work. "Punk rock" is what they started off as, and is the "official" genre, so I think that's what it should stay as.


 * Well, having listened to the album, I got to say it is as far from punk rock as it could be. I think just "Rock" will suffice.  Grue   07:55, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * There's a difference between "punk" and "punk rock" that you haven't done the reading on, my friend. I'd call Decemberunderground alternative rock, with a helping of punk structure and a dash of pop (the structural kind, not the n'sync kind).  [enzo]

Is it me, or do we not need the giant freaking banner on the bottom of the page? Exactly!

According to wikipedia policy for albums, aren't compilations and live albums usually left out of the chronology? In that case, the previous album should be "Sing the Sorrow" rather than "AFI".

Where did "Davey's descriptions" of the album come from? I've pasted several of the sentences into Google and there are no hits.


 * It was out of Karrang! (sp?) magazine, man. Someone typed out the article. [enzo]

the info on all the songs is in an article in i think a magazine called kerrang. the easiest way i think to find it is by going to http://afireinside.net/gallery/press/ 205.188.116.195 19:54, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, whoever says that the May 20th leak is terrible quality is in error. That leak was studio quality. 68.108.221.119 01:22, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * True, it is a verified transcode but its a good one. And FFS people...sign your comments on talk pages.  Theres no excuse to not sign them...the button is right there on the toolbar.--Lwieise -=- Talk to Me 06:18, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Miss Murder was studio quality for the may 20th leak, the rest of the album was not. Dbizz 22:13, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Is there a source/comfirmation for "The Decision- Secret Track? 68.108.221.119 00:12, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Not yet. I've removed this. I haven't gone out yet to buy the album, I will later today, I will confirm this if possible. --Exthuse 11:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I bought the CD; there isn't a secret track for it, unfortunately.--Lothlin 19:49, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that I can play 19 seconds before Prelude 12/21 actually "starts" at the 0:00 time position. Can anybody else confirm this? --Flash8806 04:27, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Its actually 20 seconds

lowercase?
If they wanted to name the album in lowercase, why would they write it in ALL CAPS on cover art? Allmusic and other sites use capital D in description. I'm reverting it back.  Grue  18:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Amazon, Sony Connect, MTV, aritstdirect.com, and 411mania.com have it in lowercase, "decemberunderground". On the band's website, everything is uppercase ("DECEMBERUNDERGROUND"), so I don't think the band's website is a reliable source for the casing of the title. Their blog lists two different spellings: DECEMBERUNDERGROUND and Decemberunderground. Many other sites list it as "Decemberunderground", but I think those sites are also unsure as to what the title should be, just like us. Seeing as how the band mostly uses DECEMBERUNDERGROUND, I vote for a move to that.Copysan 19:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * iTunes also uses "DECEMBERUNDERGROUND". Xephyrwing 22:45, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * iTunes used "December Underground" when I ripped my CD to it. That was weird. Flash8806 05:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I think I read somewhere that Manual of style says that long words shouldn't be uppercased even if it is the correct way to write them.  Grue  05:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Just read up on my MoS, and that is true. Looks like it is staying at Decemberunderground Copysan 08:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

A little off topic, but I was just wondering if this happened to anyone else-I put my CD onto iTunes and it spelled the album name as Decemeberunderground (an extra e). Just curious. =)-Liz 7/16/06
 * iTunes spelled it as "Decmeberunderground" when I ripped it (with an e in the wrong spot). It was weird. (Bishusui 01:37, 27 October 2006 (UTC))

I believe that the title should be lowercase as well. On the official AFI page it is either spelled in all capitals or all lowercase, as can be seen on the biography page at http://www.afireinside.net/bio/. It is also spelled with all lowercase in the album liner notes. Also, on http://www.musicbrainz.org/ it has been agreed that all lowercase is the proper spelling. Mtrolley 14:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I also agree that decemberunderground should be in all lowercase, as can be seen on the official merch site.chowski 04:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

The blog from March 28, 2006 announcing the album title spells it as Decemberunderground. You can read it at blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=24138033&blogID=103457844 (can't link it, myspace blogs are blacklisted). I'm pretty sure that Jade knows what he's talking about, and I'm pretty sure they would make sure to spell it right for the official announcement. --Hotdoglives 08:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Then again I could be wrong... I'll try asking in the Ask AFI thread on the official message board. --Hotdoglives 09:19, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

How about the fact that it's written decemberunderground in the lyrics booklet under "The Interview," the song from which the album title is taken? ( he says, half-heartedly wondering if anyone will even see it ) --Blue Dream 21:00, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Target
Target currently links to a dab page. Which Target is the Target in this article referring to: the US chain of stores or the Australian chain of stores? I'm betting its US, but I duno Copysan 08:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Limited edition artwork
According to a message posted on the official AFI message board and an email message sent to members of the AFI mailing list, lead singer Davey Havok said each album from the first pressing contains a "limited edition artwork" of a single portrait of one of the members of AFI.[citation needed]

Can we edit that since I, among others, purchased a copy which had a red "LIMITED STICKER" sticker on the wrapping and inside was, indeed, a portrait of one of the band members - as in, we don't need a source, we don't need "According to Davey" and etc etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.198.45 (talk • contribs)


 * I don't think you can because from WP:RS, "We may not use primary sources whose information has not been made available by a reliable publisher. [...] When reporting facts, Wikipedia articles should cite sources." And from WP:V, we are looking for "verifiability, not truth". Also, WP:NOR might apply here. Can you try finding the link to the message board where he said that? Or maybe you can take a picture of the limited edition CD with the poster inside, then stick it in the article, thus killing two birds with one stone: a nice illustration and a reliable source (unless of course there are claims of doctoring and what nto). Copysan 18:20, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

The best "source" I can find that can be linked within the article is here: http://www.afireinside.net/news/default.aspx/nid/1989 If someone would like to take care of that, feel free. --4.231.2.206 05:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Mystery Section
That section needs lots work and most importantly references. Copysan 03:05, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm removing it for the time being. If Clandestine is going to be documented on wikipedia, it needs it's own article.  Anyone looking to write such an article needs to keep in mind that information available on Clandestine online is largely inaccurate, due to confusion on the validity of various hoaxes. - Enzo Dragon 08:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. We need some real verifiable information on it, not random myspaces or websites. But be sure to watch for 3RR when all the anons come and try to re-add the mystery stuff. IF you need, I guess you can try Administrators_noticeboard/Incidents or Requests_for_page_protection Copysan 09:58, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh that was beautiful Enzo. Good job Copysan 01:28, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Vinyl Release
AFI is releasing a special edition boxset on vinyl, as seen http://www.cinderblock.com/wc.dll?WebStore%7ERViewItem%7EAFI%7EAFI-BOX1%7ESID=11 here]. It should be added.

Concept Album
Hi, this statement disturbs me:

"Some believe that, like AFI's previous album, Sing the Sorrow, Decemberunderground is a concept album chronicling a tragic love story that may or may not tie into the chronicle of a man's death presented in Sing The Sorrow"

This sounds just like Weasel Words to me! I added the template... Also, I am wondering if this album really is a concept album... Having not listened to the album or read any serious reviews about it, I do not know... Someone please enlighten me! --Zouavman Le Zouave 01:08, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, like the article says, some people say it is a concept album, meaning any fan who pulls it out of their ass. None of the band members themselves have said this album is a concept album. There is no reason to believe it's true. 71.116.198.126 13:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it weasel words as such. Weasel words are trying to disguise something that forces a belief on someonje as general opinion, eg "some people say that davey havok is the best frontman in rock history and is also very sexy", whereas this is just stating the fact that some fans do believe it's a concept album, albeit, it could be phrased better. --Gpmuscillo 21:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

It looks like the cover art is a reference to Watership Down --24.94.251.19 (talk) 22:34, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

The Missing Frame
I deleted the following sentence:

"The next single from the album will be The Missing Frame."

I checked the official website and myspace, and nothing says that The Missing Frame will be the next single. In fact, the source that the above statement references is another wikipedia page with no sources that just says

"The Missing Frame" is to be the third single from AFI's seventh studio album, Decemberunderground''. It is the eighth track on the album with a length of 4 minutes and 40 seconds. It will be released in early 2007.''

Just because a radio station decides to play a song, that doesn't make it a single. Just because a song sounds like it would be a single, that doesn't make it a single. It's only a single when it's announced and released. So I deleted it from this page, and added citation needed tags to The Missing Frame article. 71.116.198.126 13:16, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Decemberunderground Cover.jpg
Image:Decemberunderground Cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 00:21, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Trivia Section
1. A lot of the information on the trivia section is completely worthless and should be taken down (why rabbits? why not? stupidity) 2. It should be noted then when using the actual cd, if you play track 1 and immediately rewind, there's an added 20 seconds or so of the song, indicating that it does indeed have a hidden track of sorts... Jgrizzy89 (talk) 18:40, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Decemberunderground
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Decemberunderground's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "billboard": From Blaqk Audio:  From Miss Murder:  From Billboard 200: Chart Beat Thursday: Eminem, Jason Derulo, Cyndi Lauper Billboard. Retrieved February 20, 2012 From Beautiful Thieves:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 06:10, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130322142732/http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=16771 to http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=16771
 * Added tag to http://www.aversion.com/news/news_article.cfm?news_id=6399
 * Added tag to http://www.blender.com/guide/new/54058/decemberunderground.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100201131620/http://stylusmagazine.com/reviews/afi/decemberunderground.htm to http://www.stylusmagazine.com/reviews/afi/decemberunderground.htm
 * Added tag to http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?resultpage=1&table=SEARCH_RESULTS&action=&title=Decemberunderground&artist=afi&format=&debutLP=&category=&sex=&releaseDate=&requestNo=&type=&level=&label=&company=&certificationDate=&awardDescription=&catalogNo=&aSex=&rec_id=&charField=&gold=&platinum=&multiPlat=&level2=&certDate=&album=&id=&after=&before=&startMonth=1&endMonth=1&startYear=1958&endYear=2009&sort=Artist&perPage=25
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110515024406/http://www.aria.com.au/pages/ARIACharts-Accreditations-2006Albums.htm to http://www.aria.com.au/pages/ARIACharts-Accreditations-2006Albums.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150904024728/http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php to http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?&artist=%22AFI%22

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