Talk:Decompression sickness

Preparation for GAN
This article should be capable of becoming a Good Article. I'm going to do some minor copyediting and clean up the references as best as I can. Any suggestions for improvements would be most welcome. --RexxS (talk) 14:37, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

POV
I've reverted the removal of text from Prevention, as the reason given was "removed pov". The section may be poorly-written, less than exact, and uncited, but it does contain useful information. As far as I can see, it's not pov. The answer to stylistic concerns, imprecisions and lack of references is to fix it, not delete it. I'll find some references and copyedit. --RexxS (talk) 20:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

"To Do" list
I'll just put some ideas for development of the article here while they are fresh in my mind: Any other suggestions are much appreciated. --RexxS (talk) 13:16, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Epidemiology – use the ref above to make the paragraph more relevant
 * Alt text – images need good alt text
 * Prose – a good copyedit is needed to remove any remaining repetition and improve readability
 * New sections:
 * Research
 * Other animals
 * Update: Epidemiology and Alt text done, although alt text is always capable of improvement. --RexxS (talk) 17:50, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

2011 Lancet review

 * let me know if you need help with a copy. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 07:24, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Other species?
Should the article mention the phenomenon as it applies to, for instance, ultra-deep-sea species like the anglerfish which die when brought to the surface? (leaving aside the point that not all anglerfish are ultra-deep species) DS (talk) 23:22, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Reader feedback: How long do they need to sta...
65.25.181.201 posted this comment on 23 June 2013 (view all feedback).

"How long do they need to stay in the hyperbaric chamber as a treatment."

Any thoughts? Subsection of treatment?

&bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 15:49, 12 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I say neither... It is worth mentioning a range of times and that various treatment tables can be used but that could be a VERY long subsection if done right. I have been working on some images of the tables to do something similar to what I did when I re-wrote In-water recompression but I have not had much time finish it yet. Here is a good reference to use though:
 * Just my 2c! Thanks! --Gene Hobbs (talk) 01:22, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Just my 2c! Thanks! --Gene Hobbs (talk) 01:22, 13 July 2013 (UTC)


 * You are right. Too much for a subsection. I will start an article Therapeutic recompression when I find the time. That reference will be useful. IWR will be a useful link. Let me know what tables you have done so I don't duplicate them. I use Inkscape. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 16:53, 13 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I had only done the USN and Comex tables so far. A few of the other international tables that are not really used any longer have been harder to come up with and getting copyright permission on a few of these "company" tables have been a bear (This includes Comex). It should not be a recompression article since treatment tables are used for much more than just diving. Whatever we end up with, it needs to be enough to be nominated for a DYK so the diving/ hyperbaric articles can get more exposure. If you much more than a stub, that becomes impossible since it would require a 5x expansion to meet requirements. --Gene Hobbs (talk) 17:27, 13 July 2013 (UTC)


 * What then? I would have thought Hyperbaric medicine is too general to go into detail on treatment tables and it is already an adequate article. How many of the tables are used for anything other than decompression sickness and the occasional gas embolism? &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 18:40, 13 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The obvious I was drafting was "hyperbaric treatment tables". The last I counted there was about five other tables and several of the normal diving tables being used for other things as well. This one question was addressed here. Why not wait until we have enough assembled for a real article rather than adding another one that will need a bunch of attention? --Gene Hobbs (talk) 18:53, 13 July 2013 (UTC)


 * OK. You lead on this one. Let me know if there is anything I can do. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 10:14, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Bump: Any progress? &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 06:27, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Bump: Any progress? If you are currently unable to spare the time, please let me know. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:51, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Grecian bends
As Peter has pointed out, a search through the cited source: doesn't find any evidence of the attribution to "Greek or anal sex". The text was added on 3 October 2008 by whose last edit was well over a year ago. Consequently, I'll remove that text and reference the term from where it's discussed on page 446. --RexxS (talk) 17:07, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Comex 30
Should there be reference to Heliox 50 as a treatment gas? see http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/2133/8329941.pdf?sequence=1 &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 06:30, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 7 one external links on Decompression sickness. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110728035438/http://www.skin-diver.com/departments/gearingup/accessories/may00_computer.asp?theid=1212 to http://www.skin-diver.com/departments/gearingup/accessories/may00_computer.asp?theid=1212✅
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100726022451/http://www.diversalertnetwork.org:80/insurance/index.asp to http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/insurance/index.asp Probably good, provides relevant information. ✅
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090721182306/http://www.geoffreylandis.com:80/vacuum.html to http://www.geoffreylandis.com/vacuum.html✅
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110721002319/http://www.londonhyperbaric.com:80/decompression-illness/nhs-funded-treatment to http://www.londonhyperbaric.com/decompression-illness/nhs-funded-treatment Looks plausible ✅
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110717210438/http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/uptodate/critical%20care/embolic%20disease/air%20embolism.htm to http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/uptodate/critical%20care/embolic%20disease/air%20embolism.htm Looks right. ✅
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100613061501/http://diversalertnetwork.org/research/projects/pde/overview.asp to http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/research/projects/pde/overview.asp ✅
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100613064055/http://diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/article.asp?articleid=65 to http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/article.asp?articleid=65 ✅

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IP edit-warring
I've twice reverted the same two changes made by an anon IP, from somewhere near Delhi. The first change alters the title of the infobox from Decompression sickness, the consensus article title, to Decompression sickness/Caissons disease, adding an antiquated alternative name, mainly only of historical interest. Conventionally, we don't list multiple alternate names in the infobox title, and there's no reason to pick one from the list of alternatives. The second change links the mention of DCS in second sentence of the lead to DCS, a disambiguation page – an edit which makes the article worse. As this is the second time I've had to revert, I'm treating this and any further similar edits from the IP as vandalism - i.e. edits made with the deliberate intent to damage the encyclopedia. If anybody believes the IP's edits to be useful, please feel free to make a case here. --RexxS (talk) 17:54, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree that these edits do not improve the article and could be managed as vandalism due to persistent failure to provide a reason or engage in discussion, though the editor probably will not agree. Not sure how an admin would see it if someone complained, but leave the next revert to me just in case. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 06:32, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

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 * Added tag to http://www.jbjs.org.uk/cgi/content/abstract/56-B/1/3
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110305032723/http://www.supsalv.org/pdf/DiveMan_rev6.pdf to http://supsalv.org/pdf/DiveMan_rev6.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110305032723/http://www.supsalv.org/pdf/DiveMan_rev6.pdf to http://supsalv.org/pdf/DiveMan_rev6.pdf
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Physiological effects - missing?
I visited this article to find out about the effects of this condition on the human body, but found very little. I feel the article needs a separate section on this perhaps. Asgrrr (talk) 19:46, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree. There should be a section on pathophysiology. I have been sent a copy of a review article which will be useful for a start, but it is a bit dated (Calder 1986). Any additional references welcome. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 05:49, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * , New section Decompression sickness created. Now open for comment and improvement. Is this the sort of thing you were looking for? &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 11:12, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, this is a step in the right direction. I take it this is verbatim from a medical/scientific paper? I feel the text is a bit too technical for an encyclopedic entry. Either a complete rewrite/simplification (dumbing down???), or an additional summary of resulting physiological effects in layman's language is required I think. Asgrrr (talk) 01:54, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * , This is a bit late, but I feel I should respond anyway. The text is in no way verbatim from anything, that is expressly forbidden as plagiarism. It is a summarisation of at least eight different sources, each cited in the text, though the terminology is common to the field of study, and is likely to be found in any reasonably competent text on the subject. To rewrite in a simplified form would be possible, but either some information will be lost, or the text would have to be significantly longer. If you could be more specific about what you do not follow, I will try to make it more comprehensible. Please ping me with your reply or I may miss it again. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:22, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6458077/Desperate-battle-save-newly-qualified-scuba-diver-38-died-horrific-accident.html
86.171.69.69 (talk) 12:36, 4 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately nothing useful in this article. Not even the proximate cause of death has been reported. I can read between the lines a bit, but any conclusions I might reach are not admissible for Wikipedia. All we can be reasonably sure of is that it was not decompression sickness that killed this diver as the reported depth/time profile was not enough to require decompression, so not appropriate for this article anyway. Furthermore the report appears to be unreliable in other details. The British Swimming Coaches Association does not train divers. The organisation was probably BSAC, the British Sub-Aqua Club, which does train divers, and does has a certification level "Ocean Diver". The reporter does not seem to have checked the facts very well. I can see why Wikipedia does not consider the Daily Mail to be a reliable source. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 14:01, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Other animals
The usual heading is "Other animals", not "Other species" and that has been stable for the last two years. The IP is fixated with changing "animals" to "species" and is now edit-warring to force their version into the article. Their latest edit summary, "Undid revision 912966153 by RexxS (talk) because humans are not animals (why can't you people understand that?) and this can also happen in non animals species like bacteria and insects" demonstrates their lack of understanding. Humans are animals, as are insects, and any organism that is susceptible to decompression sickness is almost certainly an animal. I'd be grateful for any fresh eyes on this issue. --RexxS (talk) 16:23, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with RexxS. E x nihil (talk) : Ex nihil (talk) 17:18, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Definition too complicated to understand
"dissolved gases coming out of solution into bubbles inside the body on depressurization"

This is too complicated to understand. Too many conjunctures. Gases coming out of solution; fine. Into bubbles? Solution into bubble? or gases are present in the form of bubbles in solution? Again, it is followed by "inside the body on depressurization" What is inside the body? Solution? Or bubbles? Sorry it makes me totally lost. Can we please make it more clear. May be by dividing in shorter and simpler sentences? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.220.148.63 (talk) 15:27, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Inside body tissues there are gasses dissolved in solution. Sometimes there are also tiny bubbles of gas in the tissues as well.
 * When the pressure is lowered, these gases may come out of solution.
 * The molecules of these gases may move from the solution into an existing bubble, or form a new bubble.
 * That's what happens. The lead is meant to provide a concise description of the subject, so we shouldn't be writing four sentences when one will do. I'm not sure what you're finding difficult about "out of solution into bubbles". As pressure increases, gases will dissolve into a liquid and it's called a solution – is that the part that's missing for you? When the pressure is released, they can no longer be dissolved, and they then form bubbles in the liquid. You see that every time you open the top of a fresh bottle of fizzy drink. I'll have a think about how it could be written more clearly. --RexxS (talk) 16:18, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I have to agree the opening made little sense to me. Particularly, the lack of definition of "solution" confuses the issue. What solution? Blood? Cerebrospinal fluid? Any liquids/bodily fluids inside the body? This line in the body "... a reduction in ambient pressure that results in the formation of bubbles of inert gases within tissues of the body..." is more understandable and readable to me. Macktheknifeau (talk) 19:17, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Solution in pretty much any perfused tissue, and any unperfused tissue close enough for diffusion. Definitions available through wikilinks in the article, or if that fails, a search. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 11:33, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Solution in pretty much any perfused tissue, and any unperfused tissue close enough for diffusion. Definitions available through wikilinks in the article, or if that fails, a search. &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 11:33, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

It's not the responsibility of any encyclopedia to reteach information taught in grammar school in every article that refers to a principal. CO2 gas dissolved in soda pop comes out of solution, and forms bubbles when you shake it. Even if you weren't taught in school that's not the only place you come across that principle. As used in this article points out the same principal applies here. 2600:8807:5400:28F0:D56:83F3:7C70:DBAC (talk) 08:39, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Decompression sickness
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Decompression sickness's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "pmid1249001": From History of decompression research and development:  From Underwater diving:  From History of underwater diving:  From Decompression (diving):  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 23:12, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Source of the term The Bends not mentioned
Intestinal gas trapped in a tight place in the intestines that expands causes extreme abdominal pain causing the victim to bend over. That has been referred to in many writings about divers for centuries before any artificial compression caused bubbles in the blood decompression illness or diagnosis of same was even possible. The article has no mention of that. 2600:8807:5400:28F0:D56:83F3:7C70:DBAC (talk) 08:56, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Probably because none of the editors have come across a reliable source making that claim. Please cite or link to your sources so that we can assess their quality. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 17:11, 24 January 2024 (UTC)