Talk:Dee Palmer

Pronoun confusion
Wikipedia has an utterly idiotic policy that transsexuals have amazing retroactive sex changes, so 'she' met with Terry Ellis in the 1960s 35 years before becoming a 'she'. Every time I have seen her perform on stage, 'she' was a he and just another member of Tull.

I think we should adopt common sense, otherwise you have a [someone] who [was] with a bunch of male band members on tour for decades without marrying any of them.

The discussion up above looks at different ways to obfuscate the simple reality. The reality is really easy, so let's adopt reality here.

My understanding is that encyclopedias are about facts, not lies.

Varlaam (talk) 16:13, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * With regard to pronouns, MOS:IDENTITY is standard practice and a Wikipedia guideline, and as a result should be followed here. If you feel differently, it would be appropriate to gain WP:CONSENSUS to change that there, not here, first.  --joe deckertalk to me 17:03, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Page protection
I've protected the page for a week. There seems to have been a dispute for some time about adding the date of birth and birth name. Several anons kept adding it, then did the same. Another anon, 86.163.4.137 (who may be the subject) complained and removed it, but was reverted by. I reverted to 86.163's version before protecting.

WP:DOB suggests adding only the year when there's an objection to the whole birth date. Does anyone object to adding the year? As for the name, suggestions as to whether it should be included, and if so where, should be discussed here, rather than continuing to restore it. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:04, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * adding only the Year of birth seems reasonable, we don't know if the IP is the subject, but my spidey senses tell me it's possible and perhaps even probable, given details they revealed that aren't in the article for example. That said we should restore the old name to the info box and the lede since the gender transition happened long after they were in the public eye and they are noted as such on the official jethro tull website as well as oodles of other sources, so it's not someone who transitioned before entering the public eye, I see no privacy implications for restoring and there are benefits for the reader.-Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 02:07, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd support adding year, not including DOB, and, I'm afraid, including a single mention of the subject's birth name. I think my record of support for upholding MOS:IDENTITY is clear, I was the original author of the MOS-TM/MOS-TW templates, and I've argued in many cases that honoring it has BLP implications. However, we are an encyclopedia, and people can and do search for the birth name in question based on discographies, liner notes and histories of Jethro Tull. Google Books lists 400+ publications that aren't going away that contain the birth name, and when people come here for more information about "whatever happened to that musician Palmer from Jethro Tull?" it is our mission to give them an answer.  This means this biography should contain be pulled up when the name is searched, and the birth name in some respect needs to be mentioned once, and no more.
 * 86.163.4.137: If you are reading this, and you are in fact Dee, consider contacting Wikipedia's Volunteer Response Team, contact instructions are available through the link. While this will not give you particular privileges, it may be enough to allow someone to verify your identity, and more importantly, for you to have the contact with a volunteer knowledgable in Wikipedia policies regarding living people, and who may be able help you navigate our bureaucracy and to effectively advocate for your views here.They are a good group of people. I wish you the best. --j⚛e deckertalk 02:48, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Date and place of birth
Both date and place of birth appear to be unsourced. I have made the first line consistent with the infobox by changing "London" to "Wolverhampton, West Midlands", but without any indication of which might be correct. There is nothing about early life at personal bio. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:33, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * IMDb has 2 July 1937 for date. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:48, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * last.fm has "Dee Palmer (born David Victor Palmer, 2 July 1937, in Hendon, North West, London) is an English arranger and keyboardist best known for having been a member of the rock group Jethro Tull." So I intend to update to that. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:52, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Curiously FreeBMD returns no David V. Palmer born in that quarter. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:58, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * last.fm is NOT a source. If you look at the article date and compare it with the contemporary version of this article, you can easily see that the last.fm editor simply copied the Wikipedia article in its then state. I know this is a problem because last.fm is user-generated like Wikipedia. So, you can either find a better source or I'll put a template on the article.Jules TH 16 (talk) 20:49, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we can agree with Wikipedia policy that AllMusic is generally regarded as a 'reliable source' (WP:RSP). As such, I have added the relevant notation to it to support both the date, and place of birth, that was already stated in the article. At the very least AllMusic is a source and should suffice until a more reliable one is unearthed.  As a complete aside, Wikipedia's policy over reliable sources is such that virtually all online details for music related matters are not deemed sufficiently robust.  Bonkers. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:06, 18 April 2024 (UTC)