Talk:Deep-fried Mars bar

1980 origin assertion
"It is known that the deep-fried Mars Bar was preceded by the deep-fried pizza. It was common practice in Angus to deep fry frozen pizza from as early as 1980." This was changed on 21 February 2006 by Mais oui! to Angus from the previous "east of dundee". It was originally posted by an anonymous user on 18 July 2005. It's been on here for 4 years now, uncited, and is now being copied all over the Internet. It's prolly well time that the assertion be backed up, or dropped. It's already been disputed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Deep-fried_Mars_Bar#Odd.2C_possibly_illogical_sentence

But I'll leave it to someone more intimately involved with this piece to make the call as to which way to go. My instinct is to flee whenever a sentence starts with, "it is known" :} Randal Oulton (talk) 16:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've removed it. As well as being long term uncited, its relevance is unclear.  Lots of different food gets deep-fried in lots of different countries, dating to lots of different dates.  What's especially significant about Pizzas in relation to Mars Bars?  Apart from that, it was in a section listing foods "influenced".  If we take the claim at its word it precedes Mars Bars, so could hardly have been influenced by them.  -- Escape Orbit  (Talk) 14:36, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Recipe
I noticed that the recipe only calls for one tablespoon of oil... Wouldn't deep frying a chocolate bar require a lot more oil, enough to completely submerge it? --Arteitle 09:54, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)

Proposed move
This should be moved to Deep fried Mars Bar with a capital B. Exploding Boy June 29, 2005 22:23 (UTC)

Rarity
It should be noted that very few people in Scotland have ever tried one and, apart from the Royal Mile in Edinburgh where they are sold to gullible tourists, you would be hard pressed to find a fish and chip shop that actually sells them (the danger is it will melt and spoil the oil). The Lancet 'study' quoted on the article is probably apocryphal (click on the link and it takes you to the Lancet wiki page, not the 'study' itself). It's largely an urban myth that these are a delicacy north of the border. Now deep fried pizza, that's a different matter altogether... MyThoughtsExactly (talk) 20:22, 16 September 2010 (UTC)       There is a mention of this at bondisurfseafood.com.au, where they say Mars actually authorised them to sell these after satisfactory tests, and I recall it was reported in the local newspaper. SignedJohnsonL623 (talk) 12:16, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Recipe
The recipe is already on wikibooks cookbook, shouldn't we remove it from here? - Joolz 11:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Origin

 * The practice originates from Brian MacDonald who lives in Stonehaven.

Sorry, but we're going to need to see a citation on this. Remember, no original research. ProhibitOnions 00:42, 20 February 2006 (UTC) (Yes, I have eaten one, in Birmingham, not in Scotland.)

I'll put the tag here for now:

unreferenced

For a possible origin, check Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator. There's a mention there of cooking Mars bars, but I can't remember whether the cook recommends frying or baking. The mention is toward the end, when the president decides to invite the characters to the White House. Gazpacho 09:46, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Gazpacho, I don't have that book, and being in Germany I'm unlikely to find it easily; sounds like something that ought to be mentioned, so if you can find it, please do so. However, I placed the unverified tag here not because we don't know where fried Mars bars came from (I suspect what the article says is probably true), but because there aren't any sources specifically backing up what is asserted in the article. The news articles linked at the end don't really conclude anything. ProhibitOnions 18:07, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * It's searchable on Google Books, and it turns out that it's just a throwaway gag ("What do men from Mars eat for lunch?" "Mars Bars." "Baked or boiled?" "Oh, baked, of course, Monsieur le President. You will ruin a Mars Bar by boiling!"). --McGeddon (talk) 13:47, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, I don't know Brian MacDoanld, but I have met the girl who was working in the chipper who actually deep-fried the thing for him. It's fairly common knowledge in Stonehaven. Maybe if someone emailed a local history association or something a citation could be got hold of. 195.62.204.75 11:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

There's a lot of annecdotal evidence that casts doubt on the Scottish claim. Personally, I distinctly remember that when I moved to Leeds (West Yorkshire), my mother (who was already living there) pointed out a fish and chip that did DFMBs the first time we went round the city centre together. This was in April 1984. There are claims that it originated in Hull, but the trick would be finding a printed reference to them pre-dating the 1995 Scottish ones. Nick Cooper 16:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Sadly I have no written proof of DFMB, but the first and only time I came across them was when working In Edinburgh in the mid 1980's (1982..1987). A colleague of mine came from Glasgow, and knew all about them, had them when he was a child (late 60's & 70's) but claimed that they (Graham and his wife) preferred a microwaved mars bar sandwich. The date would probably be around 1983..4. Another colleague from Ayrshire confirmed that the DFMB was popular where she came from.

I'm sure they are an Australian invention. In 1981 there was an Australian TV series "Ratbags" and John Derum presented a regular "Cooking with Mars Bars" segment. As an aside, the main article states 'Rod Quantock's cooking segment parody "How to cook a Mars Bar" on the Australian sketch comedy series Australia You're Standing In It'; this series dates from 1983. Quantock was the host of the earlier "Ratbags" series; why not recycle a great sketch in a later series? I have recordings of 6 of the 13 episodes of "Ratbags" and each features a "Cooking with Mars Bars" segment but sadly no deep fried ones. I watched the series when it first went to air and I'm sure I rememer a deep fried segment. --TrogWoolley 17:17, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I have now located episodes 7 & 8 of "Ratbags", and episode 7 features fried Mars Bars. John Derum frys them in a fry pan, with onions and serves them as you would eat eggs and bacon.  This is shallow frying; my quest for the rest of the series continues.  --TrogWoolley (talk) 11:01, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Wow! Do you know if this might be referred to in reliable sources? -- Trevj (talk) 12:55, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * So personal experience with deep-fried Mars bars in the early '80s is not considered a reliable source? Our local Fish & Chip shop in rural Victoria, Australia, was selling them in the '70s but I can't vouch for any earlier than that on account of only being born in '69.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwazimoto69 (talk • contribs) 13:33, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, Wikipedia relies on verifiable facts rather than personal experiences. If deep-fried Mars bars were around in Australia in the 1970s, though, it should be possible to track down a reliable source (a cookbook, a biography, a newspaper clipping or something) that backs this up. --McGeddon (talk) 13:41, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the clarification, McGeddon (& for signing my comment for me ;). Having completed my research I have verified that Wiki User TrogWoolley (above) is correct in that fried Mars bars appeared as early as 1981, in Rod Quantock's short-lived series as"Ratbags. A video of the relevant segment can be seen on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgcZYPR19pg#t=1m25s with the fried Mars bars making their appearance at the 1:25 mark, as Mars Bar Fingers. While the cooking segment is clearly a spoof, the Mars Bar Finger has clearly been battered prior to pan frying, which is in keeping with the more conventionally deep-fried Mars bar.


 * A review of this first episode of Ratbags appeared on page 54 of the June 14, 1981, issue of The Sun-Herald. Titled "Ratbag satire rates poorly", the review specifically mentions Derum's "...woefully-unfunny attempts to make culinary catastrophes with Mars bars," and an archived copy can be seen here: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=LoZWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=n-YDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1174%2C4381749


 * As this clearly refutes the claim that the Havon Chip Bar invented the Deep-fried Mars bars in 1995, I will amend the History section of the article itself to reflect this, giving credit to Ratbags not as the inventor, but as the first known appearance of the deep-fried Mars bar. Kwazimoto69 (talk) 18:30, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * We've been around this loop before, at least once (mid March). What is abundantly clear from the clip is that deep-frying is not being employed. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:35, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What is also abundantly clear is that the deep-fried Mars bar was not invented in Scotland in 1995. It's possible it was invented in Scotland, but if so it happened at least 20 years prior to the Haven Chip Bar's spurious claim to fame. Last input on this issue and that's it for me. A 2006 entry on a Sydney Morning Herald (newspaper) Blog as seen here: http://blogs.smh.com.au/sit/archives/2006/10/achievements_fa.html states that "George Dimitrios [the owner] of Bondi Surf Seafoods has been dishing up deep fried Mars Bars since 1994. He told us yesterday he sells about 80 a day, especially to Asian tourists. He had a provisional patent for the concept, consisting of a Mars Bar fried in coconut batter. "The recipe is a secret," said Dimitrios, because the deep-fried snack food market is "very competitive". Signing off. Kwazimoto69 (talk) 01:43, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Possibly so but it was hardly "abundantly clear", this being the first time you've mentioned this new source. I was simply addressing the dud clip you posted before, which was abundantly clearly not of deep-frying. This ain't a competition.Mutt Lunker (talk) 06:36, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, the 1995 Stonehaven version had contemporary coverage in the press. This new citation, while potentially worthy of mention, is from 2006, relying only on the word of the claimant inventor for the 1994 origin, interstingly the very year before the other possible origin. 12 years later the patenting is just at a provisional stage, a non-examined application prior to the potential continuance to application for patent protection within 12 months (do we know if he then pursued this?). Dimitrios may have an earlier claim but he also may be retrospectively cashing in on the hype. Mutt Lunker (talk) 07:15, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Odd, possibly illogical sentence

 * "It is known that the deep-fried Mars bar was preceded by the deep-fried pizza. It was common practice in Angus to deep fry frozen pizza from as early as 1980.


 * This is factually incorrect, deep fried pizza has been on most chip shop menues, in the Paisley area at least, since well before the 1980's. I practically lived on them through the 80's and they certainly weren't new then.


 * This practice has found its way into Canadian culture. Canadians often serve this deep fried treat with ice cream, and large quanities of beer. Deep-fried Mars bars are also available in Sydney, Australia at a few local beaches predominately at the famous Bondi Beach."

The bold section is the strange one; is the 'treat' deep fried pizza (as mentioned in the previous paragraph and supported by the 'large quantities of beer'), or is it DFMB as mentioned in the subsequent sentence, and supported by the 'ice cream'?--Anchoress 14:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Mars Bar and Snickers are not the same
This has come up occassionally during the history of this article, that Snickers and Mars Bar are the same thing. They are not. A Mars Bar is caramel over a nougaty chocolaty base all covered in chocolate. A Snickers bar is a nougat base, with peanut butter and peanut caramel topping covered in chocolate. Not the same thing. Ben W Bell  talk  14:58, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

According to a Marcdh 2003 article in Time for Kids, they are the same Zbl 15:09, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well it's wrong. Just look at the Wikipedia articles or the chocolate bar's websites. Ben W Bell   talk  15:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I want to include what the article said, but say that the article was wrong. Zbl 15:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * But it's completely irrelevant to the article on Wikipedia. Some newspaper made a mistake, it's nothing to do with Wikipedia and the mistake isn't in any way relevant to this article.  Ben W Bell   talk  15:43, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

If the article itself is relevant, isn't the article's mistake relevant? Zbl 15:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * No not really as that is a small part of the article. The mistake isn't calling the rest of the article into question (or maybe it is, I haven't seen the article so cannot comment). Ben W Bell   talk  15:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The article itself is not in question, only the one statement. However, including the article's mistakes would make people who read the article know that there is a difference. Zbl 15:56, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Snickers is the same everywhere in the world; the article writers should have figured this out. The Mars bar is the same everywhere in the world, except for the United States, where the name is currently not in use (it was previously applied to an almond bar), and the worldwide Mars bar is known instead as Milky Way. (The international Milky Way bar is known in the U.S. as the Three Musketeers bar.) The mistake in the article regarding this point is not relevant to this article, and should not be mentioned here. Pro hib it O ni o ns  (T) 10:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Also note that in the UK, Snickers was originally called Marathon. --ukexpat 21:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Apropos of nothing, there's an episode of M*A*S*H in which Potter asks Radar to get him a Snickers.
 * "With peanuts?"
 * "No!"
 * (mutters) "Ah, Milky Way".Deke42 (talk) 14:12, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Okay lets discuss this line that User:Zbl insists on adding to the article. "The article also stated that Mars-Bars and the American candy bar Snickers are one and the same, although some dispute this fact." This line has no encyclopaedic content relevant to this article, the fact that a magazine made a mistake isn't encyclopaedic. The article hasn't even been referenced to show that A: a mistake was made, or even that B: it produced such an article in the first place. Even if it did make a mistake and did write an article it really has no place in this article. It's pointless trivia at best, and completely unenyclopaedic. Ben W Bell  talk  22:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Battered mars.jpg
Image:Battered mars.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 09:15, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Other bars
I don't completely disagree with the reason for the revert (not relevant to topic) of my recent edit (regarding deep fried Moro bars in New Zealand), however it seems to me that this article probably should be expanded to include other deep fried chocolate bars, and (where appropriate) their relationship to Deep Fried Mars Bars (in my edit about Moro bars, I had mentioned the "Scottish connection" in the areas of New Zealand that it is popular). I see in this discussion people have mentioned Snickers, and the "Deep Fried Moro Bar" is something of an icon in much of New Zealand (I'd say, at least as much as the Deep Fried Mars Bar in Scotland). It doesn't make much sense to me to create new articles for "Deep Fried Moro Bar" and "Deep Fried Snickers Bar" and whatever else. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by YttriumOx (talk • contribs) 15:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Would anyone else like to comment here? I still think that mention of other deep friend chocolate bars (especially those that are very similar to Mars Bars) IS relevant here, as it adds perspective to the article.  Without it, someone is likely to make the incorrect assumption that Deep Fried Mars Bars being eaten in Scotland is the only place in the world where this culinary delight is enjoyed.  The information is therefore suitable as encyclopaedic material as it gives the reader an extra perspective on the article (on topic) that wasn't previously there.  I'm very tempted to just add my edit back in to the article, but I don't want to start an edit war.  Someone back me up, please? YttriumOx (talk) 04:42, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Personally, I don't think it would be an error to mention them under the "Culinary influence" section. :) Bilby (talk) 09:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Type of Batter
CarterBar, you've replaced the information on the type of batter used. Can you explain why this information belongs here please. Is this batter different than batter used outside the British Isles? Do French and Spanish people use different batter? Is it relevant that batter is also used for haggis? Most importantly, have you any references for these irrelevant pieces of trivia? Thank you. --Bardcom (talk) 11:24, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I must say I have to agree with Bardcom on this one, seems irrelevant information. Canterbury Tail   talk  11:33, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm more inclined to agree with CarterBar for adding it back in. The type of batter is relevant not because it's different to what is used in other countries for the same thing, but because it IS different to what is used for deep frying many other things in other parts of the world.  If the type of batter were not specified, then the natural assumption by people outside of the British Isles would be for another kind, thereby giving them a false understanding of the topic.  And, for people within the British Isles, it would be a case of "probably this, maybe something else", simply leaving it as a question in their minds.  I'd say it's definitely suitable information from an encyclopaedic viewpoint because it removes the assumption or question.  When considering the relevance of information added, I like to work with the general idea of saying to myself, "If I wanted to know everything about this topic, and currently knew nothing, does this help me?".  In the case of the type of batter, the answer is definitely yes. YttriumOx (talk) 04:42, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Your response lacks detail and has too much vagueness. It does not address any of the questions posed above and introduces new assumptions.  For example, it implies that there are different types of batter in different parts of the world for deep frying?  Please provide a reference or citation for this - batter is simply flour and water.  Your response splits the world of deep-fat frying into two.  Outside and inside the British Isles, which implies that the British Isles is unique in some way with regards to deep-fat frying, and some editors might wonder "Oh, I wonder should I use British Isles Batter type-A or some other batter".  Can you provide references or citations for this please.  Can you also provide references as to why the British Isles is unique when it comes to deep fat frying.  Thank you. --Bardcom (talk) 09:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The batter doesn't particularly have to be unique to the British Isles, though it may be (I'm not an expert here). The fact is, it is used in the British Isles, and that's good enough for it to be reported here. Remember that it doesn't have to be used in every nook and cranny of the British Ises either; use in just part of the BI will do. CarterBar (talk) 17:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Please explain the relevance of talking about batter to this article. --Bardcom (talk) 18:31, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Pardon? If we remove the batter what are we left with? A) a Mars Bar. Please also bear in mind WP:PRESERVE before you and Crispness (no less) remove every last reference to "British Isles" on Wikipedia. We are going to go to some very bizarre places together aren't we. Oh I can't wait. --Matt Lewis (talk) 00:46, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Age of Consumers
It may be that the alleged youth of the consumers may be due to the drastic shortening of life expectancy amongst them subsequent to consumption --Streona (talk) 02:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Name
Aren't they more commonly called battered mars bars rather the deep-fried mars bars? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.123.201 (talk) 03:55, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * In Glasgow, at least, they're called 'Stoners'. All I have on this is memory, but maybe someone who resides in the area could get a pic of a menu or something.--Deke42 (talk) 14:19, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

deep fried mars bars
sorry i'm somewhat computer illiterate every date in the article refers to mid 1990's i worked at the hilton hotel in toronto in 1981 with a scot which is the first time i heard 0f a deepfried mars bar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.74.213.110 (talk) 17:13, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That would of course be very interesting if it were true, but personal memories are notoriously unreliable, which is why they are not allowed as sources on Wikipedia. Very often, witnesses simply misremember things – long-standing experience in criminal investigation. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 13:16, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I was at university in Glasgow in the late 80s and early 90s, and they were already being sold by then (1989-90) in the Blue Lagoon chip shops. As well as deep fried pizza - that had been a staple in chip shops for years by that point. I know this is uncitable, but I also know that this chip shop's claim is utter rubbish. Etrigan (talk) 11:31, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Merge?
Could we merge this wit the page for Mars bar?Mr.Magik-Pants (talk) 02:54, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose per WP:GNG, WP:UNDUE. This topic seems to have independent notability, further confirmed by another news item today, now added as a ref. -- Trevj (talk) 09:59, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Possible ref?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4564482.stm

-- Bananasoldier  (talk) 18:35, 22 May 2015 (UTC)