Talk:Defensive driving

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2020 and 17 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Thomas Leonard96. Peer reviewers: Alex Oeser, Tyler Kelso.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:13, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Title
This is an article detailing US Interactive's start of the "Alternative Delivery Method" for defensive driving courses: http://www.stp.uh.edu/vol62/130/Campusan/Camp3/Camp3.html This company is the one that opened the door for online defensive driving sites. Mhoskins 16:29, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Also found: http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2003/10/13/smallb1.html (more details about US Interactive) Mhoskins 16:35, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Avoiding collisions with bicyclists?
I wonder what, if anything, defensive driving classes teach about avoiding collisions specifically with bicyclists. If anyone could summarize what that is, I think it would be useful to have a section on it in this article. --Serge 05:51, 16 November 2005 (UTC) ≥ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.36.40.182 (talk) 07:36, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Drive in the outer lane on freeways?
Does defensive driving training really teach to "Drive in the outer lane on freeways"? Is there any basis for this (like a link to defensive driving website that says this)? I've always heard that the outside lane on a freeway is where collisions are most likely because that is where all the merging between entering and exiting traffic is occuring, and that the safest lane is one lane out from the innermost lane (furthest away from all the merging and still allowing one more lane for passing you). --Serge 19:22, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Serge, This item as I read it is to warn against the obvious danger of vehicles in both the right and left (motorway and not) lanes; merging to the centre lane at the same time!!

HOWEVER, in lane-use practice as relating to freeway/motorway class roads with INTERCHANGES, as opposed to lengths of roads with INTERSECTIONS, effectively 'keeping middle' on such a road with three or more lanes is NOT encouraged by road authorities in any case, particularly in those jurisdictions that have higher speed limits or a speed derestriction allowance so signaled by the UN Conventions - C,17a; "End of all local prohibitions on moving vehicles" sign (//). Here, such 'lane discipline' and 'driver behaviours' are not accepted, and typically-legally imparted in 'driver road code training manuals' and the like as being necessary for efficient and safe traffic flow.

It is not intended to in any way 'force' you to do so when you have traffic entering the motorway, here - you indicate from that lane well in advance to allow that traffic to merge safely, IF it is necessary to do so. Sometimes it is best simply to drop off the accelerator a moment. Traffic leaving the motorway is required to be in that lane in any case, so speed variation conflict should not be a wide problem.

NOW, That some might speed and 'cut-in' to exit abruptly is not a negative reflection of this lane discipline, rather its a reflection on that driver requiring highway patrol attention.

This motorway traffic lane-use item is taught in various places, - such as in EU jurisdictional driver training manuals, in NSW Australia and now China/Hong Kong R.O.C. The United Nations Convention (1968) on Road Traffic, Road Signs and Signals in effect states much the same.

These links are 'state' driver training examples of this practice:

NSW Australia: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/downloads/2005_12ruh_english.pdf '''Page 93 of this English language edition "Driving on the Motorway". Pdf 2.92Mb'''

This page shows the above handbook in other languages:http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/downloads/gettitestsdrivieduca_dl1.html?plid=3

Hong Kong & China: http://www.td.gov.hk/road_safety/road_users_code/index/chapter_5_for_all_drivers/dual_carriageways_/index.htm

'''United Kingdom. See Rule 238.''' http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.htm#227

26 March 2006. JHP Mot Adv-NSW

Crash and vehicle break-down scenes
I have added this header above. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kungfuadam had previously deleted this, and other edits, citing the WA Drife Safe manual and a copyright issue.

I write text for state motor driving handbooks on this subject in Australia and indeed wrote that specific text for that WA application you highlighted.

It will be used in other AUS jurisdictional handbooks and is freely edited by each agency as it desires, without legal issue. State transport service agencies outside Australia are free to adopt the exact same text or similar tutorial, and I encourage them to do so.

Warning triangle placement and the vest tutorial is harmonised with UN equipment regulations/specifications and transport road safety policy. Other text is based on US and AUS emergency services procedure, also recognised and used around the world in respective domestic context.

It, 'the text', forms part of my Signature by way of weblink on many motor discussion forums I frequent. I also write such tutorials for EU application, and in the future - middle eastern jurisdictions, do so now for NYS, NZ, PNG and so on. The WA text, as indeed all text relating to this subject are invariably similar, owing in particular, legislation governing same.

NO, copyright infringement exists in this text whatsoever, I am certainly responsible for it.

Jeremy H. Pritchard, Motorist's Advocate-NSW. BALCOLYN NSW 2264. AUSTRALIA

Email: mot.adv@internode.on.net

WP:NOT a collection of advice/suggestions
As others have rightly pointed out, the long list of advice doesn't really belong in Wikipedia. Per WP:NOT, Wikipedia isn't the appropriate place for advice/suggestions/how-to's. The long list of suggestions should probably be moved somewhere under Category:Cars on Wikibooks. However, parts of the article should remain here and should be expanded... the "Training and Courses" section is definitely encyclopedic. And I'm sure a little more non-advice prose (eg. the article needs fewer bulleted lists) could be written about the general topic. --Interiot 20:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed, a 'link' could then be issued here. Might have play around with this prospect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.167.0.27 (talk) 23:06, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Keep getting deleted
I put under defensive driving some history of one of the pioneers of defensive driving. I mentioned one of the original companies and what they did for the industry and was deleted as advertising when in fact it is in fact historical. That company does not exist any longer but historically is factual as to how some of the industry was developed.Publicsafety2012 (talk) 00:56, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The material being added was written in a promotional tone (see WP:NPOV), made claims that were not supported by reliable third party sources (see WP:RS), and added an external link that fails our external link guideline (see WP:EL). --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 01:01, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

A review of the article with proposed changes
After reviewing the defensive driving Wikipedia article I have spotted some areas that I think deserve some expanding or revising. I would like to start by saying I am not sure at this moment exactly what to do with the lead section. I think it is pretty well written and touches on just about all the topics but at the same time think it could possibly use a minor rewrite. The quote at the end seem a bit out of place to me. The general principles section is also a grey area for me that I don’t have any solid ideas on. While I certainly feel this article should cover what exactly the general principles of defensive driving are, this does not feel like the best way to do so but I don’t have any better ideas. The history section is very short consisting of only two sentences. It seems very unfair for a topic so closely related to such an important part of the modern world have such a small history section. With whole cities literally being designed around the roads in which vehicles ride on and with how deadly vehicles can actually be, this article deserves be expanded on. To improve on the history section I believe adding additional information such as when more states had defensive driving courses available as well as when and how the courses transitioned on to the internet would be a big improvement. I am also looking for information on when courts started issuing mandated course completion as this is a common reason people complete defensive driving courses. I have some of the mentioned information already but finding reliable sources for this has proven to be a bit difficult. This would take the history section from the inception of the concept up until the modern day while adding some important information on how it developed overtime. The training and courses section, while much more informative, could still use some additional information as well as some citations. The amount of time required and exactly how the courses are taken could also be added to this section. While talking about this section I also would consider moving the mentions of reduced auto insurance and dismissal of tickets to the benefits section, which I will now discuss. The “benefits of roadcraft” section can be transformed into a benefits of defensive driving or benefits of secondary driver education section. In doing so the section would require a rewrite for it to make more sense in the context of the heading using the provided citation to back up the claims. My thought process behind this is to be able to provide any information regarding the actual effectiveness that defensive driving has as I feel that is lacking in the current version of the article. This is important information that I believe people should be able to see when coming to this article. With so many people dying from car accidents annually, any information that could help reduce the problem should be mentioned. As I have researched into the effectiveness of defensive driving courses I have found that there are a few promising studies. At the moment I have found two studies that show drivers who have taken any kind of secondary driver education such as a defensive driving course are less likely to be involved in accidents or traffic violations. I am still currently looking for more studies, possibly from different countries to give the article more global representation. I am looking forward to improving this article; let me know how my plans sound! Here are some sources that might be of use to anyone else who wants to work on improving this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Thomas%20Leonard96/Defensive_driving/Bibliography- Thomas Leonard96 (talk) 21:52, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

=international== It seems to be mostly about the USA 2A01:CB08:8BE:AA00:C0AD:659A:8BAD:3281 (talk) 05:27, 19 February 2022 (UTC)