Talk:Deference/Archives/2013

Contradiction
As of 20:28, 10 February 2011 the section "Sociology", kind of, contradicts itself by saying: "According to Goffman, a person with a poor demeanor will be held in lower esteem in the eyes of society. The same is true for people who behave in a good demeanor, however: society will hold them in a higher esteem."

It does not make sense to say "the same is true"! Without having read Goffman's text, I am unable to infer the intended meaning. It would be great if someone would correct this rather than just delete the whole inconsistency. 178.232.55.237 (talk) 09:09, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Deference may be Submission and Passivity, but the inverse...
Deference implies willingness, assent (agreeing, approving) or acknowledgment of the "right" to or the legitimacy of somebody else to impose their will upon oneself. On the other hand: Unwilling, reluctant compliance (or any submission) resulting from fear alone, is not deference!


 * 1) Submission is not the same as deference:
 * 2) *While all instances of deference is the submission to the will (rule) of somebody else, the inverse is not true!
 * 3) *In other words: there may be many instances of submission that in no way implies, nor is a result of, any agreeing, approving or acknowledgement, by the submissive person, of other peoples' right to rule or in any way enforce their decisions upon anyone.
 * 4) *Silence does not imply acquiescence!
 * 5) Passivity is definitely not the same as deference:
 * 6) To refrain from active opposition against something (i.e. passivity) does not, in it self, imply neither agreeing nor approving (assent)! Instead the reason may be lacking awareness of what is happening (or is about to happen) or lacking strenght or lacking willpower or otherwise lacking ability to do anything to stop or change the course of what is happening.
 * 7) Even more importantly: passivity does not necessarily have to relate to situations involving other people's will at all (while deference does). For example passivity may be the thing that keeps a person from taking any action while looking at his/her now dry laundry, hanging at the outdoors clothes line, while the person is being fully aware that it is about to start raining heavily.

Therefore: Deference may be Submission and Passivity, but the other way around may not always be the case. Hence:
 * 1) The wikipedia (stub) article: "Passivity (behavior)" should not be redirected to "Deference", as it is done  by User:Neelix.
 * 2) The lead section should be rewritten to explain why using the purported "synonymes": "submission" and "passivity" is somewhat erroneous. --Seren-dipper (talk) 21:42, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Goffman
The section on Erving Goffman is some of the most incomprehensible babble I've ever read. I recommend it for deletion and humbly request that you defer to my authority on this as a person with basic critical thinking abilities, unlike the contributor who pasted it in there from their 101 level sociology discussion board conversation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.13.207.69 (talk) 12:41, 26 December 2012 (UTC)