Talk:Deford, Michigan

False Information
There are a lot of false information on this page. I don't want to be mean or anything but this page needs to be redone or deleted because this page is not trustful and can not be taken at face value at all. I have made some minor edits but this page needs certifiable evidence to prove that it is true. I have been through Deford many times on my way to Caro and there is a downtown area (in other words a Main Street with a stoplight in town) Though some of the pictures posted by the previous contributor where not of the town. I hope that this problem can be solved. Best of Wishes Bernette! — Preceding undated comment added 23:19, June 24, 2009

I have said the same thing!! This person, Avery_player2011, is posting a ton of false information about this town on here. I have tried to contact them on their talk page but they seem to think they are correct. I live right down the road from Deford and I see the town on a regular basis. This person needs to check their facts. I have verified with current Census Bureau estimates that the 48729 ZIP code (for Deford, Michigan) is at 1,611. I do not know where the 4,000-some is coming from. Since Deford, Michigan is in fact a hamlet, the Census Bureau does not take population of the "hamlet proper" into account. I have also visited the MHSAA website and I have verified that Cass City is a Class C school district. The high school only has about 460 students as of 2009 making it Class C status. Also, Deford has absolutely no downtown area to speak of except a gas station and a township hall and no stoplight. I really think this person is trying to turn Deford into Cass City. The picture that Avery_player2011 is using for "Main Street Deford" is actually a picture of Main Street in Cass City if I'm not mistaken. If this person wants to write an article about Cass City, please do so. This is about Deford, Michigan. A small hamlet just down the road from where I live. This user has also posted false information about Deford being eligible for money from Governor Granholm, when in fact Deford cannot receive these funds because it is only a hamlet and is not recognized in the state's eyes. Only a city, village, township, or county is eligible for state appropriated funds. Michael herc (talk) 03:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Not to be mean but sadly it was on your page that I have founded wrong information. His page did too but his page was cited more and had the most truth about it. Bernette 04:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Reading on what you have written, Caro or Scottsville can not either because they are villages but they too also received a similar reward. I find you lack of information about such simple things funny. not to be mean but just mentioning that. best if wises Bernette 04:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I would really like to work to get this sorted out, but seeing as there is another article about Deford, this is going to get even harder! I have found that the sources used for Deford have no basis or backup for what Emily Bernette are trying to say. To reply to the previous post above me, I have said that villages are government entities and are therefore eligible for government money. Hamlets are not. The source you have used about the Blueprints for Downtown is faulty. Nowhere in the article is Deford mentioned even one time. Mrhercli89 (talk) 18:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Toddst1 for reverting the edit on the false information posted. I would really like to see more of this information removed because much of it is unverified. The picture, for instance, is not of Deford and should be removed. Mrhercli89 (talk) 18:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Deford Michigan!
I belive with all this commotion about this page and dispute has gone log enough. I say we delet this page once and for all! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Emily Bernette (talk • contribs) 06:42, 25 June 2009
 * No, that would be against policy. We resolve our disuptes here on Wikipedia and seek consensus through the use of WP:Reliable Sources to ensure verifiability. Toddst1 (talk) 06:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you really believe the page should be deleted, you can always nominate it at Articles for deletion; however, I can see no reasonable grounds for doing so. Even if the information is wrong, you will probably just be asked to correct it, rather than gaining consensus for deletion. Anaxial (talk) 19:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:AFD wouldn't serve much value. This article is not going to be deleted. It's a town, which, unless under very special circumstances, means that article is of a notable subject. I think Bernette's request is from a misunderstanding of policies dealing with deletion. As Toddst1 said, that usage of deletion is against policy; taking it to AfD would be fruitless. Better advice, I think, would be to ask Emily Bernette to read over revelant guidelines. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 19:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Edit war: Strong suggestion
Before anyone involved in this edit war makes any further changes to this article, I strongly suggest you Failure to do so will be considered dsruption. Toddst1 (talk) 06:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) discuss it here first and achieve consensus and
 * 2) be sure you have reliable sources that you will cite.

Moving unsourced sections to talk
I am moving several sections here as they are completely unsourced and appear to be WP:OR. Please do not restore them without adding citations with reliable sources. Toddst1 (talk) 19:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC) {{quotation|

Geography
Deford is located 3 miles the south of Cass City, 6 miles north for Kingston, and 5.7 miles east of Caro. Deford is located on Deckerville Rd. and Cemetery Rd and expands out to Kingston Rd. where Main St. turns into Bruce St, and back into Deckerville Rd. west of the community. The community is near the Cass River and is home to a library, which was the old Deford High School, and several successful local businesses.

Notable landmarks
To the north of the community is the Deford Community Park, where a statue of Elmer Bruce. The Park was dedicated to Bruce, who was the man who made Deford a notable residence during it's early history. His passion has resulted in the expansion of the community as it is continues to grow. During the early to late 1900s, Deford had 3 schools but money and support ran out for the school district and in 1986 all 3 school buildings were shut down and it merged with Cass City School District. Today, the High School is open again and is in use as a library for the community. Cass City is a Class C.

Agriculture
Deford is a rural community that supports many cash-crop farms just outside the community. Local farmers harvest crops that include sugar-beets, corn, wheat, dry beans and soy beans. Recently, the agriculture of the area has seen an increase in the number of organically grown crops. Most of the farms are family-owned and operated and vary in size from 2 acre to over 3000 acre.

Media
Deford is home to 2 radio stations, hosted by Tuscola County. Caro and Sandusky hold most of the media connections in the region. Deford is one of 2 communities to have its own radio station, Marlette being the other.

History
During the early 1900s, Deford became a major center of work as it convenient location played part in its growing economy. The town expanded until 1933 when the poor economy destroyed local businesses. The town bounced back in the 1980s but support for the Class B Deford School District ran out. Ever since then Deford has been underestimated as big part of the area.

Changes in the community
The Blueprints for Downtowns award was also received by the Cities of Clio, Ypsilanti, and the Village of Caro. Scottville received a similar award to take part in the Cool Cities Michigan Main Street program. Deford Urban Development, or DUDB, was set up to help boost the program. The Community has begun new building projects to the North, West, and South of the community. Deford is home to 3 restaurants, 2 car garages, a convince store with a tanning parlor, and a barber's. in downtown, where over 29 businesses are located. The community has, since 2005, set up Board of local citizens to better manage the limited financial support that the community uses for new projects. Another factor that plays apart in the economy of the community is that fact that it is located around 3 major villages. Most of the people who live in Deford work outside the community with few who work inside the community limits. }}

Proper references and WP:OR
For the last few minutes, I've been looking for sources, but as the case with most small towns, I get a ton of hits that are only ads with the subject changed from such and such to "Deford, Michigan"; that being said, I have found a couple sources that may prove of use:
 * This looks like it might help.
 * This has a wealth of information that will provide what the .gov census could not. (I removed those references after having an error along the lines of "Could not find data for the search you have requested."

I'm sure deeper digging will find more. News search returned nothing of value I could see.

That being said, I think it would be of value at this point to work backwards. Strike out anything in the sections that Toddst1 moved over here that cannot be referenced or is clearly WP:OR, and then reference what is left. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 19:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Lәo. I have also tried to Google anything and everything about Deford, but there is nothing. I believe much of this is because Deford is so small. It does not even have a website of it's own nor does Novesta Township (which it is a part of). As your source has indeed shown, the population of the Deford ZIP is indeed 1,611. I believe that this information should be put into the article (I will not seeing as it will probably be deleted again.) I also believe you should strike out the part of the Blueprint for Downtown part seeing as it does not reference Deford in the entire article. Just because Bernette references something doesn't make it automatically true. Also, there is no way to prove that the picture being used is in fact Deford (as it is not) and should be taken out as well. Mrhercli89 (talk) 19:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * First and foremost, I hope that no one in this dispute resorts to personal attacks, so let's try and remain civil. Comments such as "Just because Bernette references something doesn't make it automatically true" could be misinterpreted.


 * Yes, finding sources is a bit difficult. Still, deeper digging, as I said previously, will probably yeild some nice results. Finding an image shouldn't be too hard, and we remove the questionable one in place of one we can agree is Deford. It will just take a little bit of time 'til we clear this all out. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 20:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks folks. I've added a template to the top of the page that could help. Good luck. There's progress being made here!  Toddst1 (talk) 19:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * For morality, it's a bit of a boost, however, News and Scholar return nothing, and Book only looks to return what I posted above. But it's the thought that counts! Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 20:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I found a link to a page, not sure how much help this is or where it can be used, but it is a website to Deford's one and only store. That way we can remove the picture currently in place, which is of Cass City, Michigan. [] Mrhercli89 (talk) 20:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * We can probably find a use for it. I don't know if it will work as a reference, but I can look into it. It will probably turn up as an external link. Right now I'm referencing things within the infobox with the census information. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 20:15, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

New (possible) sources:
 * Some public health thing
 * Normally I wouldn't buy this crap, but who knows; maybe it'll come in handy
 * Google linked it, but I can't see any reference to Deford (But I'm also being really lazy.)

That's all I could find on 27 pages of Google seaches. Hm. Leonard^Bloom( Public account ) 02:35, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Question
There's apparently been a heck of a lot of interest in this little town that seems to be halfway between nowhere and fugawe (intended to be humorous). Are all of you folks from there? Do you all know each other? Toddst1 (talk) 23:48, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I live near Deford, I'm actually from a larger town about 6 miles west (Caro, Michigan). I happened across this article a couple days ago and was taken aback by what I saw on it. Deford is incredibly small. Like, there is only one business there that doubles as a gas station. There are no stoplights, no major roads. Nada. I was just very upset to see somebody that lives in the Thumb of Michigan to believe Deford to be something that it is not. However, I believe since they are not from my area, they may be confusing it with another town (I'm guessing Cass City). I guess that's what I'm hoping. LOL. And, no, I do not believe I know these users. Mrhercli89 (talk) 00:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Unrelated bystander/mediator of sorts. Oregon, with no relation. Leonard^Bloom( Public account ) 02:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Since a lot is going on with trying to fix this page, I was wondering if a few of you could hop on over to the Cass City High School page and see what is going on there. Unfortunately, Emily Bernette has been reversing my edits that have been verified by sources. This user continues to change the student population data with nothing to back it up with and also is contradicting themselves with student to teacher ratios. Also, I have verified the Class C status of the school and unfortunately again, this user continues to say that it is Class A with no backing whatsoever. Lastly, I would like you all to take a look at Deford Area because it appears that Emily Bernette has created another page identical to this page. I'm not sure if that's allowed on WIkipedia? Thank you very much for your time. Mrhercli89 (talk) 01:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * See the talk page on the Cass City High article. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 01:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, I have already tried contacting this user about this, but they choose not to respond. That is why I was wondering if I could have some help from some of the administrators with that page because none of this users facts are being verified and mine are. And they just choose to delete mine. Mrhercli89 (talk) 01:29, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Again, see the talk page of the relevant article. I'm almost done, and keep refreshing; it will be posted soon. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 01:30, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Requesting Proper References
I was wondering if it was possible to request proper references for this page as well. Much of the information provided, even if they seem to have a reference, are not actually proper references or do not back up the statements being said. For instance, the Blueprints for Downtown reference does not even reference Deford in the entire article. Thank you. Mrhercli89 (talk) 05:43, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * There's a thread to this same effect above a bit. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 06:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

If I may, is it possible to remove the blueprints to downtown section. it shows no relevance to this article. DanRother (talk) 23:35, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * No relevance? It deals with a) the town (which is the subject of the article) and b) an aspect of the town that is unique to Michigan (though this could be false; w/o refs, who's to say?). Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 04:22, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * But, what I believe what he is saying is, as I have said earlier, if you actually read the reference, Deford is not even mentioned one time. To me, this is a faulty reference. Mrhercli89 (talk) 04:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * If that's the case, then it is a faulty reference. However, the content of the article, involving the blueprints, is relevant. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 04:26, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * But, is unreferenced information allowed? Because I can almost guarantee you that you will not find anything to back up what is being said in that section, because it is simply untrue. Deford does not even have a downtown. Mrhercli89 (talk) 04:28, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Blueprints for downtown
On July 23, 2007 Governor Jennifer Granholm announced Deford was a community chosen by the Michigan State Housing Development Authority (MSHDA) to take part in the Blueprints for Downtowns program. The community is the only unincorporated community to receive this in the state of Michigan. Deford will receive a comprehensive, market-driven strategy toward developing an action-oriented downtown that will result in economic growth, job creation and private investments.

If Deford doesn't have a downtown, then the information is untrue. I have moved it here until it can be (dis)proven. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 04:29, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Would a Google Maps view of Deford be enough to show it doesn't have a downtown (and thus the blueprints section to be false)? Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 04:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure. I've asked the same question somewhere, I'm not quite sure. If you turn on satellite view and zoom in as far as you can, you can see that the "main drag" of Deford only extends for two tenths of a mile and there is nothing much there. Unless you consider a gas station, a church, and a library to be a "downtown". There happens to be no stoplight either. This "town" is pretty much just a hindrance to passersby as they must slow down to 35 MPH for about a minute and then continue on their drive. Mrhercli89 (talk) 04:43, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think Michigan would choose this one small collection of related buildings to be the only recipient of a program that revitalizes the area. Of course, this is only an assumption. However, I don't see anything to show that Deford was involved in this program. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 04:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if you're referring to the picture that was previously posted on here as being "Main Street Deford" but that was not Deford. That was of another town 7 miles north of Deford, Cass City. With that said, even Cass City was not involved in this program, it was Caro, which is about 10 miles west of Deford. Mrhercli89 (talk) 05:37, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Not Deford? Oh well.


 * I think google has pretty much proven Deford was not in the program. Nothing relevant containing the program and deford together is found. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 05:52, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Removed sections
Thanks for adding a reference to the page; proper, valid references is something page is heavily lacking, and any and all help. Thanks. However, your edit removed a lot of text, that your added reference doesn't seem to support removal of (i.e., invalidate). Could you explain your edit in a bit more detail? Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 18:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure my reason given, no legal/definitive boundaries, supports removal of the sections.   The only definitive Deford area is that which is platted. Education removed as a whole article should exist for the School District and none of them are in Deford.  A simple sentence stating that Deford is served by the Cass School District should suffice.  Deford Community Park doesn't come up in GNIS and Evergreen Park  per the delete section is in (Sanilac County) hardly even near Deford. Only Deckerville Road (as Bruce Road) goes through the platted area.  The surrounding municipality is Novesta Township. Spshu (talk) 14:14, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

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