Talk:Del Pilar-class offshore patrol vessel

Ship Armaments
Phichanad

I'm doubtful about the listing of the following armaments because the cited link (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/11559/navy-flagship-sheds-us-identity-videoke-onboard) only says and I quote "The Navy plans to install 25mm chain guns in the ship’s rear, six mounted 50-caliber guns and two 20mm canons":


 * 1 × Mk. 38 Mod 0 chain gun
 * 2 × Mark 16 20mm guns

So I did research and found an article (http://ptvnews.ph/bottom-news-life2/11-11-nation-submenu/23914-defense-department-to-acquire-new-frigates-more-capable-than-hamilton-class-cutters#sthash.KtlynqQi.dpuf) that says "At present, the Hamilton-class cutters in service are only armed with a 76-mm main gun which can fire 60 to 80 rounds per minute." It is possible though that at least 4 machine guns are already installed with BRP Geregorio del Pilar as with its sister ship BRP Ramon Alcaraz (http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2012/10/29/861346/navy-ship-get-new-weapons-systems). So, I'm updating all the info regarding the armament.

You've overwritten my changes citing blog sites and a forum. But based on the rules of WP:Verifiability, you cannot choose blog sites and forums as sources over a reputable news website. I'm reverting your changes.

-- Israformales (talk) 23:48, 16 July 2014 (UTC)


 * You have forgotten this very important point: "Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it. When reliable sources disagree, present what the various sources say, give each side its due weight, and maintain a neutral point of view".


 * The information provided is verifiable, and even have photos for you to look at, expect if you do not know how to identify a certain weapons platform. For clarity, see the photos provided on the links below:
 * http://adroth.ph/afpmodern/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/5p2jy.jpg & http://adroth.ph/afpmodern/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/387414_10150444305452956_190479452955_8471955_129291081_n.jpg - these shows the 20mm Mk. 16 guns, one more is found on the starboard side.


 * http://blog.yimg.com/2/ksoF3jN7s585_QDHN8wE3jaQbXIJZ3.dRN2vzMxw_eOg1KCnIJHADg--/63/l/oUYB8ZnhQqK0jAmD66JHFg.jpg & http://blog.yimg.com/2/ksoF3jN7s585_QDHN8wE3jaQbXIJZ3.dRN2vzMxw_eOg1KCnIJHADg--/64/l/llcQKQwutGM86kgohVmtvQ.jpg - these photos show the aft Mk. 38 Mod. 0 gun.


 * I could post a lot more verifiable information for you to see for yourself, but that is already called spoonfeeding.

Phichanad (talk) 02:55, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

I think you have missed out the most important point. The reason why you are placing a citation link is to point the reader where he/she can verify the information you have stated. Now, you can "spoonfeed" me any image you might want to show but they don't mean anything if you cannot tie them with the citation links you have placed on the article page. Now, maybe you can stop being sensitive about your work and start being collaborative. Please properly do your citation because again the images you have just sputtered about are not on the citation links you have added on the page. Israformales (talk) 11:06, 20 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Israformales, FYI citation is now provided. This is not about sensitivity of the work, but of accuracy. Even if the citation was provided but the citation itself is wrong, it doesn't help either.
 * Phichanad (talk) 13:21, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Phichanad I just found time to look closer at the pictures you've posted. It seems to me that those new installations are just M2 Browning 50 caliber machine guns. The one at the aft though (shown at http://blog.yimg.com/2/ksoF3jN7s585_QDHN8wE3jaQbXIJZ3.dRN2vzMxw_eOg1KCnIJHADg--/63/l/oUYB8ZnhQqK0jAmD66JHFg.jpg) might indeed be a Bushmaster Chain Gun side by side with an M2 Browning. Please find more solid information because I think those pictures do not verify anything. Close-up pictures maybe. Israformales (talk) 14:53, 24 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Israformales, the need for "more solid information" other than the photos provided depends on how well you look at the photos. Obviously you cannot determine the difference between an Oerlikon 20mm gun and a 12.7mm heavy machine gun. The aft gun in place of the Phalanx is a Mk.38 Mod.0 gun coming from one of the Andrada-class boats. There are 6 50-cal machine guns in the entire ship: 2 aft near the helideck, 2 midships on both sides, and 2 more forward near the main gun. These guns are not mounted all the time. Also, I already provided another souce - Jane's FIghting Ships 2013-2014. There is no available online version of this book so the ISBN and other information are there for your reference.
 * Phichanad (talk) 11:07, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

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