Talk:Delayed puberty/Archive 1

Reference
This article needs some type of reference, added tag. --FloNight 22:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Height

 * Adult height reached 14.5y

I doubt that's true. My sister was 5'1" 1/2 at 15, now she's 19 and 5'3". Uhhhh? ― LADY GALAXY ★彡 Refill/lol 21:02, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I don’t trust those statements ether. In Sweden there is a misconception that a girl’s body is fully grown at menarche. I think this factoid is relic from the time before Industrialisation when most North European girls got their menarche around the age of 17. Since they did not grew noticably after the event people misunderstood it as a signal that the body was fully grown. Today Swedish girls typically get their menarche around the age of 12 – 13 years. I think people continue to grown until the age of 18 but more and more slowly after pubery. Provided it is not so delayed that the process is not compleated until the age of 18, that is.

2009-08-01 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Health effects?
Could the article go into whether or not this would be considered healthier or less healthy? Obviously abnormal but sometimes abnormalities can be beneficial. Obviously there are mechanical advantages to growth and maturation but they are not as important in a society that values mental qualities. I am wondering if you compare someone who took longer to mature to someone who took normal (or faster) how their health would compare, how it would compare to metabolism and lifespan and so forth. I know aging and maturation are separate processes occuring over time but even so there are no doubt metabolic alterations inherant to maturation which do affect the metabolic contributors to aging entropy. Tyciol 07:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Response In response to this statement I would like to state that this has been studied in the following study: Gender-related psychological and behavioural correlates of pubertal timing in a national sample of Swiss adolescents� P.-A. Michaud ∗, J.-C. Suris, A. Deppen Multidisciplinary Unit for Adolescent Health and Research group on Adolescent Health, University Hospital, Lausanne, Switzerland

The conclusion was that with regards to girls the only consequence with regards to psychological problems and risk behaviour was a statistically significant lower onset or occurence with regards to being sexually active when compared to normal or early onset of maturation. Boys on the other hand would be statistically more likely to have a dissatisfaction with their own body, be prone to binge drinking and are also less sexualy active then compared to their peers who did have a average onset of maturity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.120.3.216 (talk) 12:31, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Merge with sexual infantilism
I think it would be beneficial to merge the sexual_infantilism article with the more established delayed puberty article. The former article starts by describing sexual infantilism as delayed puberty ("Sexual infantilism ... i.e., delayed puberty"). The delayed puberty article has a four year history; has had multiple, substantial contributors; and is actively improving. BitterGrey (talk) 03:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see any problem with that. It doesn't seem clinically different. I say go ahead and merge.  Graymornings (talk) 01:05, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm new to this
For the following:

"For North American, Indo-Iranian (India, Iran) and European girls

* Thelarche 10y5m (8y–13y) * Pubarche 11y (8.5–13.5y) * Growth spurt 10–12.5y * Menarche 12.5y (10.5–14.5) * Adult height reached 14.5y

For North American, Indo-Iranian (India, Iran) and European boys

* Testicular enlargement 11.5y (9.5–13.5y) * Pubic hair 12y (10–14y) * Growth spurt 12–14y * Completion of growth 16.0y"

Should not "Pubic hair" in boys be also "Pubarche" with the link? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.56.129.47 (talk) 16:30, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

When teenagers stop to grow
Why does the table say that girls stop to grew at the age of 14 and boys at 16? Does not people normally continue to grow until the age of 18?

2009-08-01 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.


 * By grow, you mean puberty? Puberty is varied, though it occurs at about the same time for people on average. Don't confuse legal adulthood with biological adulthood. A girl may already be completely done with puberty by age 16, and a biological adult, but not a legal adult. Yes, most countries do not consider people legal adults until the age of 18, but it does not take until 18 years of age for everyone (especially in the case of girls) to finish puberty. Flyer22 (talk) 18:34, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

When I write “stop to grow” about humans I mean “stop to increase in height”. I thought my expression was clear enough.

2010-05-13 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.247.167.71 (talk) 17:24, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought so too. However, in English finish growing, stop growing, reach adult height are all equivalent, but "stop to do something" usually means "pause in order to do something" and perhaps confused Flyer. As it explains in the article adult height is reached after several years of rising estrogen levels in the blood. Since girls start making estrogen earlier (around 10 on average) and make more than boys, girls finish growing sooner. Average age for reaching adult height for European and American girls is about 14 to 15 years, or about 2-3 years after menarche. Average age for reaching adult height for European and American boys is about 17 to 18 years. Obviously, some people mature earlier or later than others, but for most, all aspects of growth and puberty are shifted about the same number of years ahead or behind. Is that clearer? alteripse (talk) 22:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

My point is that humans normally reach full height at the age of 18. But they may grow significantly slower after the end of puberty.

2010-05-15 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.146.16 (talk) 08:45, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, now it's my turn to be confused by you. What you just said makes no sense to me. Both boys and girls may reach full height at 18, but the mean or average age for reaching full height is closer to 15.5 for girls and 18.5 for boys. Only a few very late-developing girls are still growing between 17 and 18. The "end of puberty" is often defined by the twin criteria of achievement of reproductive capability and the achievement of adult height. By that definition, no one grows after the end of puberty. On the other hand, if you define "end of puberty" solely as the achievement of potential fertility, then it is accurate to say that "humans grow slower after the end of puberty." It may be accurate, but achievement of reproductive capability is not a practical criterion for end of puberty in real life, since there are no clear physical indicators of reproductive capability except complex testing or simply getting pregnant or impregnating. Exact numbers depend on sources used. The above numbers come from the most widely used height prediction tables (Bayley-Pinneau): 15.5 and 18.5 for girls and boys at which not even a couple of millimeters of additional growth remains. By those tables, the growth in the last year is less than a cm. I have seen some more recent European growth curves suggesting a slightly later age to maximal height. alteripse (talk) 19:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Alteripse. When I stated "By grow, you mean puberty?," I was speaking of the "end of puberty." As Alteripse stated, "The 'end of puberty' is often defined by the twin criteria of achievement of reproductive capability and the achievement of adult height. By that definition, no one grows after the end of puberty." Flyer22 (talk) 15:00, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * As a note to other readers of this discussion, the chart was changed some time ago (before my response) regarding when North American, Indo-Iranian (India, Iran) and European boys complete puberty (as in "finish growing"); it now has 17 years as the typical set age, rather than 16. Alteripse might want to change it to 17.5 or 18.5. For the girls part, I am thinking it should be changed to what Alteripse cites above (15.5); that change would also correspond with the Puberty article and the Puberty section of the Adolescence article (which both give a general range of 15-17 years for girls). Flyer22 (talk) 20:51, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree the article could be clearer about its criteria. It is based on cessation of limb growth and, the apparent age of near leveling of the growth curves, which are commonly used for clinical purposes but are somewhat of an oversimplification. For one of the best discussions of the complexities of determining "age at which adult height is reached", see by one of the best auxologists in the business. alteripse (talk) 02:49, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, Alteripse. Thanks for the link. That should definitely come in handy for this article. Flyer22 (talk) 17:00, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

I thought puberty ended when secondary sex characteristics was fully developed. Think about a girl who gets menace at the age of nine! At the age of twelve she will not have the body proportions of an adult woman. She may have all the secondary sex characteristics of a woman but she is still increasing in height and probably the circumference of her hips as well. Yet she grows slower than other girls of her age and will end up significantly shorter than normal. Similarly, a boy who can get an erection at the age of eleven may have all the secondary sex characteristics of a man at the age of 14 but does still increase in height. Unless puberty is delayed there will be a couple of years between fully developed secondary sex characteristics and no further increase in height. The later will typically happened at the age of 16 – 18 years. At least this is how I have understood it.

2010-05-21 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.247.167.71 (talk) 18:36, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Kallmann syndrome
I have added Kallmann syndrome under the "See also" box on the page as a condition that can cause delayed or absent puberty but is often overlooked. I know it is mentioned earlier in the article but I think it warrents another mention as it is not the most widely known about condition and a delay in diagnosis can cause both physical and pyschological problems for patients with it. Neilsmith38 (talk) 12:21, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

wording of the chart
Northamerican girls/boys is very generic, considering that north americans could be indigenous, black , south asians, east asians, pacific islanders or white? If White (caucasian as Americans call it on their census) is meant maybe that should be clarified. If it doesnt matter maybe that should be stated too (From my own experience there isnt any difference world wide in puberty ranges)also the table doesnt have a source quoted anywhere does it?77.188.67.67 (talk) 19:02, 11 April 2017 (UTC)