Talk:Delbarton School

Unnecessary Information
This page has been filled with unnecessary and unsourced opinions. Please keep the page clear of biased statements. Wikipedia is a site for encyclopedic information only. NJDevilsFan22 18:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC) I partially agree to this. Some UNNECESSARY, RUDE, HORRIBLE opinions have been posted about this school. Please refrain from making useless and annoying comments. Anonymous P.S. Positive comments about this school should be correct and factual, too.

[User: RK]I deleted the section called Accusations. Outside of an alumnus being involved, I see no relation to the history of the Delbarton School, let alone a reason for an entire section to be devoted this issue.

[User: RK]I see a section called alumni in the news was added on this bogus Duke Rape case. All charges have no been dropped so I don't think this is a very relevant to the school's history, there are alumni playing division 1 lacrosse all over the country so unless we want to include all of their infomration this no longer serves a purpose.

Ned Eng?
Someone added that some guy named Ned Eng, apparently a pro skateboarder in an adio skate video, went to Delbarton. If he is a real person, why does googling him not bring up anything?
 * I don't think there's anything wrong in putting in a "famous" grad who acts in a commercial who is otherwise unknown. I agree with your implied criticism that there probably should be no article named "Ned Eng"! Student7 02:36, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Robert Tappan Morris
This fellow, for having invented the computer virus seems more notorious, than famous. I think you should have a new category or mentioned he served time for his felony. Student7 02:36, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Famous, as defined by Merrium Webster, is "widely known", and does not specificially well known for things good or bad. Additionally, the invention of the Morris Worm was actually a mistake not an intentional or malicious bug. 68.193.253.147 (talk) 04:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

History
One of the facts from ancient times that seems to have been lost is the fact that "German" nuns worked in the kitchen at the mansion, cooking for students, 3 meals a day during the 40s. There was a secluded convent down the road from the Abbey where they lived. They were very amiable and friendly, and doubtless provided some maternal oversight for the boys who were there for the first time and homesick.

The boarding school was quite useful during WWII when gas was at a premium (rationed,actually). People couldn't have driven their boys there every day had they wanted to!

The first gym burnt in 1946 or so, the result of arson by one of the boys, as I recall. The Record should have uh, a record of that.

In the 1970s, the Morristown Record reported that a Bernini was discovered next to the mansion. It had been standing there since the Luther Kountze put it there. No one had any idea of its value before that!

There was a lake next to the road known as the "old lake." Presumable the "new" lake was constructed for the school when purchased by the Benedictines. Boy scouts from the area had an annual campout up the hill from that lake.

The Kountze mansion had Italian gardens out back, which are still there I imagine. However, the monks were able to keep them up to the original standard with labor furnished by brothers back when brothers were available for such tasks. When the brothers stopped, the gardens could no longer be maintained to that high standard.

As the school expanded, they needed space for a chemistry laboratory. They took over an old chapel that was near the Jockey Hollow Road exit. Students were driven there in a car or cars.

Continuing the 1900s rich Americans experiment with agriculture, the Abbey/School attempted to keep up their own milk production. The milk was used both at the school and the Abbey. Of course, it was most likely unpasturized! They also had some nice orchards which produced all sorts of fruit, though apples were in abundance.

When the school was small enough, graduation exercises took place in the Italian Gardens, weather permitting. I can't quote from anything except memory because I have no written information. I hope someone else can.Student7 02:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

A lot of the history section is not needed. Wikipedia is for factual and encyclopedic information. "Aimiable and friendly" are adjectives that would not be seen on wikipedia. Also, the history section that was added is inaccurate. It has already been stated that it was formerly the Kountze estate. It was not an agricultural "model", it was simply an estate with a small farm; not uncommon, and not noteworthy. This is not an example of a Vanderbilt Mansion. The Vanderbilts were a family, not architects or builders. In fact, the homes that they had built for them were designed in all different styles by different architects. As for the Bernini statue, Delbarton owns a famous statue, not necessarily the statue that you are describing, that has been moved to the MOMA in New York on loan. However, this is not documented. NJDevilsFan22 06:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC) (There are two Bernini statues, however, they are not at the MOMA, they are at the Metropolitan Museum in New York. They have been there since the 1970s.205.234.12.14 (talk) 19:11, 25 February 2008 (UTC))


 * Maybe there should be a separate Kountze estate since part of it became the National Park.


 * As far as the statue goes, the Record did mention only one statue which seems to agree with your statement and my recollection. The prestigious JSTOR[jstor.org], which footnote you deleted, mentioned two. They could be wrong of course, but their weight as a reference is far beyond anything else so far in this article. Do you have a reference for your claim besides the Morristown Record?


 * Confining Delbarton history to the last few years in sports seems to trivialize the place. I presume that is not your intent.Student7 00:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Just created the section on history. Although it's only one source, I consider it reliable (Delbarton's website). Lvb314 (talk) 02:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Basketball deletions
Someone deleted basketball stars from the list citing "Wikipedia Standards." I suggest adding them back, if these people exist and if you can cite a reference instead of memory. Generally when someone cites "Wikipedia Standards," without citing a specific reference, and without helping to take the same information and improve the article to the so-called standard that they are supposely following, that they are just making it up! I won't try to guess their motivation because that would not be charitable! IMO if the players cited are real people, I think they should be mentioned for their prominence in school athletic history.Student7 12:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

If the players are distinguished enough, they should go under famous alumni, as Troy Murphy does. Otherwise the article would grow to ridiculous lengths with everybody's favorite sports memory. If a player is a Division I athlete, it's probably fair to add him under the alumni section. The athletics section should be focused on team accomplishments and, possibly, coaches, as you can see from the other sports. We should list every year the basketball team won the county tournament. Jyardley 16:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable.Student7 17:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Gold Standard for High School articles?
Just went looking for a Wikipedia article that is highly rated for high schools. There weren't many! Anyway, one is Stuyvesant High School in NYC. They are a huge school. Nevertheless, maybe we can get some ideas from it.

It shows a lot of work. They have gobs of footnotes. They aren't perfect. Their first footnote refers to the "prestigious" universities their students go to. This is not substantiated by their reference. Sounds POV to me, but I wasn't about to mess with one of the few FA articles on schools in the world!

Another article is Hopkins School. They are smaller. Incredibly old. They have a tiny athletics subarticle. They discuss cost which seems reasonable. (The cost doesn't seem reasonable! The discussion seems reasonable!) Not a lot of footnotes.

The last is Plano Senior High School, another large scbool. Like most Texas schools, they are big on sports. Data is well organized and presented. Lots of footnotes again.

All have histories.

See what you think. More than one of you! Student7 00:02, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Alumni in the news
Ryan McFadyen and Reade Seligman would both qualify as noted alumni. I think affecting American history for the past year is not temporary, and therefore both names should always remain on this article. NJDevilsFan22 21:09, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * No, I don't believe so. Let's not put the standards so low that everyone winds up on the list! People with parking infractions? DUIs? BTW, none of them are even that bad-no indictment! If they are good, what was it that they did good?


 * People will forget all about this with the next transition of American Idol. They've mostly forgotten them already and moved on to other stuff. I don't mind leaving them on transient notables, but I really don't see the point of even that. Had they been indicted, there might be some point. They weren't news before it happened, they aren't really news now. Maybe if they turn professional....:) They simply aren't bad enough or good enough to be with the other people on the list who have achieved permanent fame or infamy. Student7 01:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I believe that people will not forget about this. This simply made American history and they are noted Alumni.  Who said noted alumni had to be good?  I've seen alumni on other articles with murderers and serial killers listed.  I think a murder would also qualify as an over-and-done event that people will "forget about".  So no, I disagree.  NJDevilsFan22 12:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think we agree in principle. Notable alumni don't have to be good. What is it that these folks have done that is that bad? They weren't indicted. Parking tickets maybe? Student7 16:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[User:RK] So Ryan McFadden is on the alumni in the news list for sending an email more than a year ago in a case where the local DA is likely lookling at disbarment and possibly criminal charges for his actions? His name has not been in the news for quite sometime. People have already forgotten about Ryan McFadden... perhaps not people with a bias against the school.


 * Feel free to remove the "story", such as it is. Lord knows I've tried! :)  Student7 14:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Under Wikipedia's rules located here, both alumnists are considered notable. Under the bullets of "Wide name recognition" and "Multiple features in credible news media", there is no reason as to why both names have been deleted. I have no bias, but those who are trying to rid Delbarton of alumnists whom, for a while, seemed to have been negative alumnists, may be considered biased. If you walked up to anyone who watches the news, the names Ryan McFadden and Reade Seligman would be recognized. I stand by my argument that they changed history by appearing on Sixty Minutes multiple times and have gone through one of the most controversial scandals in American history. NJDevilsFan22 9:54, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Notability is not time dependent and does not disappear. Both McFadyen and Seligman have been discussed at length in the media, and their notability and connection to the school have been well established. Alansohn 23:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

It is pointless and unnecessary to mention these individuals, when trying to accurately portray a SCHOOL. There is no relevance for putting people who were wrongly accused and abused by the legal system on the Delbarton school wikipedia page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.158.221 (talk) 18:37, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Cross Country
Reverted good faith edits because achievements, as noted, were not that significant. County placement is insufficient for long term notability for Delbarton, a high achieving school sportswise. Sorry. The attainments of an individual must not be allowed to eclipse the fact that the article is about the school, not an individual per se. Student7 (talk) 22:51, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Student7- I am very sorry for the perceived lack of respect for your edit and subsequent undoing of said edit without comment. I attempted to explain to a friend of mine that if he chooses to undo the edit he must discuss it. I have since read your comments and agree totally with your critique. The cross country blurb has no right to be on the page. I am very sorry for any misunderstanding; as I mentioned, my overzealous friend neglected to followed the standard procedure. -Stanli121

I think the Cross Country section needs to be added now. Not only has the team had two successful seasons in a row but the program has produced two of the last three Parochial A state champion runners. If this is not a significant achievement [outright winning the hardest group in NJ cross country]then I am unsure what is. Opinions? Stanli121 —Preceding undated comment was added at 01:07, 21 November 2008 (UTC).

People
There are places for people in the article. Notables for example. The article should not be about coaches, individual athletes, nor individual students, nor anyone but the school's presidents should even be recorded. The article should be about the school not people. I had left this imbedded remark which editors had followed until recently. An editor deleted it in order to insert pr for coaches. I don't think this is a good idea. Student7 (talk) 12:11, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Original assessment
This is a very good page. It is well referenced. I think it just needs some pictures to make it a firm B. Contact schools project when you have them or Victuallers 10:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Re-assessment
I am assessing this article for WikiProject Schools following a request. I have decided to leave this article at the existing ratings, these being B / Mid. This school could possibly be high-importance, with the Wall Street Journal Rank impressive, though the standards for high-importance are high, and I don't think the evidence in the article is quite there to justify it yet. On improving the article, firstly the article has major gaps in referencing, with almost no refs at all in the 'International Focus' part of the article and some of the sports sub-sections. Ideally for GA all refs should use citation templates, see WP:CITET, and as many fields as possible should be filled in. Also refs should not be in section headings. Further expansion may also be needed, see WP:WPSCH/AG for ideas. The lead seems a bit fragmented and needs to summarise the article better, see WP:LEAD. The logo in the infobox is good, but the resolution is too high to comply with WP:NFCC and I have tagged it accordingly. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 15:37, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Delbarton
I thought that Delbarton was also a boarding school or it used to be. But I don't see that mentioned here. Am I off-base? Newjerseyliz (talk) 20:28, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

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