Talk:Deliverance/Archive 1

Cast
Seamon Glass - First Griner Randall Deal - Second Griner

Please, what is a Griner? - Gillean666 19:35, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Griner is the last name of two of the characters in the movie. They are not given first names. Acantha1979 21:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)Acantha1979


 * Thank you. :) Gillean666 19:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Citation
Looking for the citation for the "more than 30 people have drowned" in the Chattooga River, and everyone has exactly the same sentence (copying from Wikipedia or Wikipedia copied from them). The closest I can find is here at the IMDb. It cites 31 people died the year after the movie came out. Obviously many more have died since then-- inexperienced paddlers and rafter die regularly. Anyone else have better luck?Gaviidae 14:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

A citation can be found here: http://www.thesylvaherald.com/042204/html/author_to_discuss_chattooga__d.html

There's also a reference here: http://www.chattoogariver.org/index.php?req=chattooga&quart=Sp2004

I've rafted the Chattooga before. It's a fairly technical river at the very end (the Five Fall rapids in particular has some Class V stuff), but all can be surmounted with preparation (whether with a tour group as I was) or if you are an experienced kayaker with good skills (probably best in a group). When I went on the tour, I remember something to the effect that they said that at least some of the deaths could be attributed to people chosing a technical river while being ill-prepared -- even to the point of floating down rapids on mattresses and the like.

--Soundwave106 02:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

long, non-notable "in popular culture" section
That list is really crufty. I say slash it. Anyone want to argue for its preservation? Dybryd 22:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's been axed at the moment, but I'd say just take the most famous three and say "There are many other references in pop culture" about the rest. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.243.210.61 (talk) 23:00, 28 December 2006 (UTC).
 * How do we decide the "most famous three" Deliverance references? THough I know a comprehensive list of pop cultur references may be cumbersome...COME ON! This is DELIVERANCE! THe most scary movie known to man! -Northridge09:48, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I say ditch it or move it to its own page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blue Tie (talk • contribs) 00:32, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

Amusing... I was just reading this section, tried to correct a quote within, and then noticed that the section had been completely removed! Why not just move it to its own page if it doesn't properly fit as a subsection of the Deliverance page?


 * I think that is a good idea. Do you know how to do it?--Blue Tie 02:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

For the time being, I think it should just be moved to it's own page. It would make me feel better since I organized the list into categories. :P Eratticus 18:38, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

moved out of main article into talk page
The following was cut and pasted from the article, whoever added it to the article, this is the place to put such content. Thanks. dr.ef.tymac 16:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * When Ed shoots the arrow at the hillman who simultaneously fires at Ed, they are facing one another, yet when the man falls down dead, the arrow entered the back of his neck first.

When Ed shoots the arrow at the hillman-they are facing one another-yet when the man falls down dead, the arrow point in his neck is from back to front.(NOTE: Worth reviewing this scene- it does look as though the tail feathers are near the man's throat, meaning the arrow has gone from front to back. Anyone else want to offer an opinion?)).

After the gunman collapses, there's a camera shot of the sky overhead. This shot seems to suggest that, in the chaotic instant where Ed and the gunman shoot simultaneously, Ed ends up shooting his arrow nearly straight up into the air. As the gunman then approaches and leans forward to aim at Ed (who's lying below him), the descending arrow strikes the gunman through the back of the neck or the upper portion of the back. This would explain the entry of the arrow from the rear. The shot of the sunlit sky also suggests that a provident God may have been watching over Ed and assisting a bit with the ballistics of such a one-in-a-million shot. If this is what the director intended, the scene is not done very convincingly, as it's hard to see from Ed's motions how he could have managed to shoot the arrow vertically; also, the flight of the rising and falling arrow would had to have taken a long, long time. I fail to see, though, how the gunman could have been struck with a horizontal shot, jog over to Ed's position showing no apparent sign of distress, begin to take aim, and then suddenly and unexplainedly fall dead. A descending arrow piercing his spine could explain a sudden collapse, but a conventionally-shot arrow passing through less vital regions of the neck, upper chest and back, or a shoulder would seem likely to leave the gunman partially disabled with respect to aiming and cause a much slower demise through simple blood loss and shock. 87.53.192.49 11:05, 26 May 2007 (UTC) Actually, there's some confusion here. Ed shoots the hillbilly in the neck luckily with his first shot, but in the panic falls over the bow, which holds at least one spare arrow. When this happens, the bow snaps and the one remaining arrow on the clip goes through the skin on his side. You could see there were only two arrows when he was climbing the cliff and nearly dropped the bow. He pulls out the arrow whilst the mountain-man is staggering towards him, but from the angle you can't see the arrow through his neck. The mountain-man raises his gun to fire, but at that moment his body gives up, he can't raise the shotgun and he collapses forwards, where you can clearly see the fletching of the arrow sticking out of his throat where it has entered the front of his neck point first. Ed makes no attempt to have a second shot since the bow is broken. He cowers and puts his arms over his head defensively.--The voices made me do it 23:41, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Knife, and pipe, and cucumber ...
"Ed is tied to a tree with his own belt and cut by one of the hillbillies' knives." I just watched the movie last night and I could have sworn that took the knife from Ed, so it would have been his own knife. I remember they talked about "how sharp" it was.--Azslande 01:30, 15 June 2007 (UTC) "You got a good eye : the knife ( a bowie-knife, a model well known & used by hunters ) is in fact Ed's knife , he even whetted it some time ago on the grindstone in his home-garage ( souvenir from the book "Delivrance" ..."Why are not the movie & the film separated..."cf supra...). With the bowie , the hill-billy shaves some of Ed's breast-fur , making blood trickle , & tells his teeth-less mate : "He aint got no fur in his mouth ..." . By the way , he also snatched away the bowed pipe Ed had mecanically fumbled out of his pocket and put in his mouth ...Let it be known that here in France a blow-job his homely called " a pipe"...Add it some other hints , like the " darndest looking cuncumber" on the table of the familial guest-house , and you'll think there was a sharply allusive spirit by the side of Boorman . Or was it Dickeys himself ? He plays a sheriff at the end of the movie , maybe he followed the film-taking ...Someone in " DVD revew2007" ( cf link at the end of the article ) seems to think that Dickey was a severe pervert...Arapaima 07Dec2007 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.164.93.95 (talk • contribs) 13:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Lonny: autistic? and Billy Reden banjo-virtuoso or extra ?
Is it possible that Lonny is supposed to be autistic? I'm not familiar with the film or book, but I've seen the part where he shies away from the touch of the guitar-player after the duelling banjos, then later he doesn't acknowledge the four men. His banjo-skills might be regarded as an idiot-savant skill, maybe? TrulyBlue 16:52, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Possibly, but nothing you've pointed out or was mentioned in the movie (or novel) is specifically autistic. It would be original research to claim that without actual substantiation aside from speculation. --76.214.199.83 (talk) 08:44, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I dont understand what User76.214 ...83 means, but I see what you're thinking about, Truly blue: could Lonny ( Billy Reden) be an idiot-savant like autistic "Rainman" ? ...Too mishaped for that, I think. Years ago, I had thought that Lonny was a deeply dumb hydrocephalic albinos pin-head , degenerate product of inbreeding ( cf low implantation of ears , slitted eyes , empty drum brow ..) , but now the notion of foetal alcoolisation has spread , as well as that of rubeolic or toxoplasmosis encephalopathy ...Billy Reden personnality puzzles me : the jubilatory glint edging through his slitted eyes ,and his glee-full smile during the guitar-banjo duel made me think that there was a lot of intelligence under that awesome look ... I have learned on the net that he has worked in the back-kitchen of a lorry-joint in Georgia for thirty-one years , before being discovered again. By Tim Burton, who hired him to play the banjo-man ( again !)in his film "Bigfish" ( 2003). And I complained about the injustice of fate, who let Glenn Gould play his life along , and kept Billy Reden in front of a sink ...So I was sadly stunned when I learned that Billy had not actually played the banjo in the movie , but a player behind him did , with his arms through a contraption shirt , a fake movie gadget ...But how could have Billy , as it is said , have performed on the local stages during sometimes after the movie spread ? What did he do on the stage if he could not play banjo ? Show off a local freak ? Is it for that reason he stopped ( or was urged to stop )performing ? I wonder ...If somebody can enlighten me, thank you very much from France ( I came on the English site of Wiki because the French article on "Deliverance" is despairingly poor...) Arapaima 07 Dec. 2007 I have just viewed Tim Burton's "Big Fish", and made stop-on-the-image examination of the Banjo Man. Among the jumble of freaks ( acromegalic tottering giant ; siamese transformist sisters ; well-known atrabilious quasi-dwarf actor impersonating a werewolf ; big fish hybrid of cat-fish and bass, etc...), Billy Reden looked rather decent. A plain elderly man, with some brain and feet-soles problems ( everybody is bare-footed in that ghost-town ), who kept the enigmatical smile of his youth .But unfortunately , and the shooting of the grand square- dance scene shows it obviously , with no gift whatever for music .One more of my illusions deleted !Or may some-one from Georgia who knows Billy Reden restore it? User Arapaima 15 Dec 2007 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.164.93.95 (talk • contribs) 13:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Bloodhound Gang/C.N.N. reference
To quote: The Bloodhound Gang song I Hope You Die includes the verse "I hope your cell mate thinks he's God." Nonetheless, C.N.N. refers to him as "Bowling Ball Bag Bob.” Serving time again for abuse of a corpse, only this time the victim is a Clydesdale horse. He masturbates to photos of livestock. He does the "Silence of the Lambs" dance to Christian Rock, eats feces and quotes from Deliverance, and fights with his imaginary playmate Vince.

I can not find any intelligible meaning in this paragraph. Who is "C.N.N.", and what is that piece about masturbating to photos of livstock and such? Is that the verse of the Bloodhoung Gang song? Is anyone here to enlighten me, please? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Florian Prischl (talk • contribs) 23:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC).


 * I believe the entire quote above is from the Bloodhound Gang song "I hope you die". CNN is a 24 hour Cable news network at least in the USA (probably elsewhere). I believe the point of the quote above is translatable to "I hope your cell mate is the scary person ever." This would be inline with the title, "I hope you die." Now, aside from the fact that the song makes a brief reference to Deliverance which is entirely unnecessary, I don't get why this is here. I think, if this information were to be included in the article, a more tactful way to include it would be as follows:
 * The bloodhound gang song "I hope you die" includes a reference in a verse hoping that "your cellmate" among others things "quotes from Deliverance." The cellmate is described as doing many awful and terrible things.

Dachande (talk) 21:35, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Plot summary
We do have some pretty long and useless plot summaries, but I don't think the summary on this article was one of them. I think this edit was inappropriate and if there are no objections I'll revert it tomorrow. --Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 00:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps it should also be mentioned that they inspect Drew's body for bullet entry wounds/marks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashley Blackmore (talk • contribs) 14:01, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Copycats
apparently after the movie came out there were as much as nineteen deaths in that very river where the movie was shot, mostly men trying to recreate the adventure in the movie. maybe this would be worth mentioning on this page, as trivia or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.55.216.197 (talk) 01:28, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Deliverance should redirect to Deliverance (disambiguation) and this page should redirect to Deliverance (1972 film)
The 1972 movie is based on the successful and famous 1970 novel of the same name. The is alo a 1919 silent film of the same name about the story of Helen Keller and many other references to Deliverence.

Are there any objections? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.52.142.243 (talk) 16:25, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I moved the 1972 film back to the base name based on the incoming wikilinks, which indicate a primary topic. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * (same as first person) But the wikilinks can redirect to a disambiguation page without a problem.--189.62.170.155 (talk) 18:42, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Bobby Buttrill or Bobby Trippe? Lonnie?
I always though Bobby's last name was Trippe. Where did "Buttrill" come from? Likewise, "Lonnie" is never referred to by name in the film. This must be from the novel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.176.153.55 (talk) 01:56, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Ed O'Neill
I removed the reference to Ed O'Neill making an uncredited appearance as the Deputy in the hospital scene. It doesn't look like him anyway (or talk like him), but in the new DVD commentary, Boorman notes that the Deputy was played by his driver, a Georgia local. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.136.124.67 (talk) 00:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I know as far back as 1996--and probably further back, but that's the oldest I have--Leonard Maltin's movie guide has claimed that O'Neill appears at the end of "Deliverance" (1972). This is simply not Ed O'Neill. http://s294.photobucket.com/albums/mm119/badger60/?action=view&current=IMG_5738.jpg There are three deputies credited in the film. Macom McCalman is the deputy seen arguing with Ned Beatty the first time we see James Dickey as the Sheriff. The only time two deputies appear is in the scene where Jon Voight is being placed in the ambulance, where they are speaking to Ned Beatty. The shorter deputy on the left, probably "First Deputy" has his head down, so he can't clearly be seen. The taller deputy is a little clearer, but doesn't look like the deputy at the hospital. Also, if you have Blu-Ray, and zoom in on the name of the deputy, it says "Crone." The "First Deputy" is played by Lewis Crone, and as the deputy at the hospital is somewhat short, comparable in height to Ned Beatty, I think that he is Lewis Crone. I found a death notice for a Lewis Crone in the Jacksonville FL area with vital dates (as I recall) of 1938-1988, who I think might be the same person.Stembark (talk) 14:03, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

plot appears to be almost word by word identical to imdb synopsis
Compare with http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068473/synopsis

Is this normal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.25.79.189 (talk) 09:55, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

The wikipedia page concerning imdb suggests that it might be a violation of wikipedia's terms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Movie_Database#Copyright.2C_vandalism.2C_and_error_issues] (krautsk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krautsk (talk • contribs) 00:01, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Plot hole

 * When Drew's body is found the others check his right temple for a gunshot wound-yet if he had been shot, a bullet would have hit his left temple! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.53.145.37 (talk) 19:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Entrance wound could be over looked - but an exit wound is a clear sign.

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.53.98 (talk) 01:35, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

At the end when the man's hand comes out of the lake-who is it supposed to be? The two men shot by Lewis and Ed or that of Drew? Or was it just part of Ed's nightmare? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.242.65 (talk) 14:30, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:39, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Stunts
The article claims both that the actors did their own stunts and later on there is a reference to Jon Voight's stunt double. So did the actors do most but not all of their own stunts?--178.203.152.74 (talk) 00:44, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

More references in popular culture
I think this list is too big already. Anyway, there are at least three references to Deliverance in the first two seasons of The King Of Queens. If somebody is interested, I'm trying to find the episodes. Please excuse my English. --84.148.161.67 13:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * While watching TV, Arthur (Jerry Stiller) remarks: "Ah. Nobody squeals like Ned Beatty". (unknown episode)
 * Doug (Kevin James) learns that Arthur may marry his aunt. When he realizes that this would also mean that Arthur becomes his uncle and so on, he says "Oh my god. I hear banjo music.". (unknown episode)
 * Arthur and Spence (Patton Oswalt) are going on a vacation with an RV. In the last scene of the episode we see the RV in the wilderness in wide shot. A voice from the off: "Hey, check out that old man and that funny-lookin' boy by the camper. The boy's got an awful pretty mouth.". Banjo music starts. (episode 25: Whine Country).


 * Re: While watching TV, Arthur (Jerry Stiller) remarks: "Ah. Nobody squeals like Ned Beatty". (unknown episode).  The episode is: "Head First" (1998).  You can see the full script of that episode at this website: The King of Queens Episode Scripts.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:52, 17 May 2015 (UTC)


 * There is NEVER enough pop culture references to Deliverance! Besides, how do you decide which references stay or go? -Northridge00:27, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The Mad TV Sketch was actually from a Far Side comic.

I have no way of verifying, but the last Trivia thing about Pres. Carter simply cannot be true.

Wasn't there a SUV commercial with friends camping out at night only to pack up and leave after hearing Dueling Banjos coming from the woods? --Freddie1988 21 January 2007


 * Yes, there was. It was a Saturn VUE commercial. I was the one who added that trivia to this wiki, but someone removed it. Lost the link. -Northridge06:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * An epsiode of Rocko's Modern Life has Rocko playing a virtual reality game which suddenly turns into "Deliverance"!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.53.145.171 (talk) 23:55, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Seperation of book and movie
Why arent the book and the movie seperated like any other film based on a movie?

re adding - and retaining - some key plot details
What is the purpose of having a plot synopsis if it isn't to inform and interest the reader? This is precisely what my edits do, which is why they are "critical" and should be retained. They briefly flesh out a crucial plot element in the movie - Ed's perilous ascent and descent of a rock face, and his encounter with a would-be killer - that was not satisfactorily detailed in the prior version. My edit concisely adds crucial details of interest to anyone wanting to learn about this movie, without adding unnecessary length. Even the revised version with my edits is about the same length as other synopses of movies of the same period and length (see The Getaway and What's Up, Doc? for examples), so one wonders why there should be an issue with these edits.

You could summarize the plot of Citizen Kane in one sentence if you wanted to, but that would not exactly be helpful or get the point across, would it? My edits retain a happy balance between giving pertinent details and offering a blow-by-blow account.

Finally, the edit that adds the identification of James Dickey as the sheriff is plainly within Wikipedia norms and guidelines, and really need not be defended further.Porterhse (talk) 23:21, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Wrong Claude Terry
in the section at the bottom, the claude terry linked to is a basketball player. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.164.79.11 (talk) 00:44, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Done, removed link --DavidAnstiss (talk) 10:39, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Incorrect plot summary - misunderstands movie
The mountain man rapist who initially gets away, he had no teeth and no ring on his finger. The mountain man who is killed with an arrow on top of the mountain, he has teeth and a ring on his finger. The point is, they are unsure if they killed an innocent man, opening up a moral delima over the choice to kill a possibly innocent man who just happened to be up there hunting for deer. This is explained and source-able in Ronny Cox's book Dueling Banjos (2018). -- Green  C  16:13, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks! -- Green  C  04:02, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Screenplay Uncredited?
I'm curious why there is a parenthetical "(uncredited)" following reference to the screenplay by James Dickey in the opening paragraph of this article. I just watched the movie and he is given credit as the screenwriter in the opening credits (in addition to credit for the novel by him of the same name). In addition, the movie poster shown shows Dickey as screenwriter. Mdarrenbailey (talk) 18:05, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Stunt double?
The third bullet point in the 'Influence of the film' section mentions "John Voight's stunt double", but the 'Stunts' subsection only mentions the actors performing their own stunts whilst uninsured. Which version is correct? JezGrove (talk) 10:04, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Based on real or unreal events
my history of this movie and my history in the state goes back many centuries and some are in disagreement as to the movie being based on true events or is pure imagination about the AR families depicted in the film. Several arguments of the family that owned the country store where dueling banjos takes place and the appearance of the young man being the product of the sexual inbreeding that's sadly a common place in many southern states, not just here but is including AR No names to be my need to submit for any reasons whether it be well documented or not, it's just not important nor would it contribute to anything, it serves no real purpose to use names of any fellow Arkansans. My take on this is that both sides have credible sources for the events happening and being known as such very well could and long back has occured in referring to the rape scene, no police reports of such violence found but are well dated as not commonly to have been more than a one time occurences and was called as more of a drunken nonconsensual attack which is vague and resulted in restitution and jail time, offender was later said to have lived out life in seclusion to avoid the backlash on the family. No other repeated attacks were mentioned. The second occurrence was well documented by a consensual secret affair being accidentally exposed from a scorned break up when one was married and gave the jilted partner up as one sided unwanted attention on canoe and hunting trips within the family of both sides, there was a show of support for the newlyweds as being the more valued over the advances being nothing more than an overdone prank.

in nature

joking. We as the time shows have gave tolerance for the lgbt communimany fould rthe of sny a showing more accaaAr is the more diverse and understanding people from humble beginnings with the insight to be fair in a very unfair time when the world was cruel often punishing brutally even from the gossi of such things. Ir rumor mill, id lithks thought; ie to end with if it,s true so be it if its not severbe it, fear allow this to rule our good sense for judgment and our ability to keep using kind and fair to all who feel the desire to tell the story t,han Thank you for allowing me to share this with you. Visit and Enjoy Our Natural State of Arkansas B4WeAR4told2old (talk) 17:13, 17 April 2024 (UTC)