Talk:Dell/Archive 2

"Excellent support"
I'm not speaking for or against Dell Support, but doesn't Dell has an excellent support system seem like a bit much editorializing rather than objectivism. Correct me if I'm wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.190.136.65 (talk • contribs) 02:17, December 26, 2004.
 * You're right. The entire article is pretty bad considering the enormity of this company.  This probably doesn't belong on the article unless there's a respected 3rd-party report on this, but dell's support is actually the crappiest I've dealt with...ever. -Frazzydee|&#9997; 20:38, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

This should be removed, it's not factual information. --86.143.233.62 18:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Alienware Purchase
This article needs to be updated, Dell has purchased Alienware. http://today.reuters.com/business/newsArticle.aspx?type=ousiv&storyID=2006-03-23T003844Z_01_WEN3184_RTRIDST_0_BUSINESSPRO-DELL-ALIENWARE-DC.XML --71.50.168.42 01:42, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * This appears to be addressed.Jvandyke 13:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Do we really care what the tech support script is
What is reported here is pretty much standard operating procedure for a lot of call centers. Is this supposed to be an example of improved customer service? If so please reword to be clearer and above all briefer. Elinruby 13:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)elinruby

Vertical Tying
The use of non standard internal connectors by dell is not vertical tying. If it were, AMD would be accused of tying also because AMD cpus can't be inserted into intel cpu sockets (intel being the dominant standard, like ATX). The example linked to in the tying page, being required to purchase proprietary gas from a car manufacturer,is an example because you are being forced to purchas a RELATED part. It makes no mention of it being anti-competitive for only the car manufacturer to make replacement parts for the car itself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.219.60.216 (talk • contribs).
 * Actually that would only be true if AMD didn't allow anyone else to make motherboards which could take an AMD CPU. However many companies make motherboards which take AMD CPUs. The difference here is unless you want to replace both items, you can only get a replacement motherboard or powersupply from Dell. Though the current criticism needs to be updated. If an almost 6 year old source is the only source for this it begins to look a bit like undue weight under WP:NPOV. Its also dated by starting the article with "currently" I believe its still the case, but what may have been the case 6 years ago may not be the case now.--Crossmr 20:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I've read a few recent reviews of the Dell XPS 720 H2C, and they indicate that the system used a propitarty BTX formfactor motherboard, and that the power supply was pinned different from the industry standard. The most recent (I think October 2007) issue of Maximum PC magazine even indicated that the power cord was propitary. Anyway, I know this is with regards to one specific PC but this tells me that with at least some of their PC's, they still follow this practice and thus it's "current". 76.178.105.2 05:26, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * it tells you 1 is, not some. If 1 of several dozen models is using a proprietary connector it certainly not a majority and a single model. A citation would be required.--Crossmr 12:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Why is there a photo...
of a burnt Dell laptop on the bottom of the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.176.36 (talk) 02:23, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Criticism Section
Granted while some of this is Dell specific... it mostly applies to the entire industry at this point.

"For example, they have accused its customer service of helping businesses faster than individual customers." -- You can apply that to just about any computer company today, and consumer groups have accused HP and IBM of the same thing.

"Customer service critics target Dell Inc.'s outsourcing practices, specifically involving India, claiming they contribute to communication problems between the company and its customers." -- Again the whole industry is doing this

This section really needs to be rewritten. We really should reference some of these problems of broader industry concerns rather than Dell specific. Also it seems rather biased to have a section like this for Dell but not for HP, IBM, Gateway, or any other major computer company... --Pboyd04 04:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Also in the Software section

"On Dell's Windows machines, the manufacturer bundles a large quantity of software. Some have accused Dell of shipping spyware and claim that its technical support team have instructions not to support its de-installation." -- shouldn't this be moved to the critism section? --Pboyd04 05:24, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I know from experience the frustration of speaking to outsourced operators and having to send in my laptop for a second HD replacement because the first replacement simply didn't work - Philip Kinscherf

I think many of us do. But I've had the frustration of speaking to outsourced technicians for HP and IBM servers, desktops, laptops and printers. While Dell does have many critisms I think that we either need to add a section like this to all major computer vendors or remove it. There is a definate bias here. --Pboyd04 18:02, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Guys, I have used the Indian call centres for several firms (including Dell) and I find the people there to be very good. I sometimes have a little difficulty with their accent, but no worse than the Geordies at another call centre I deal with.  Some (e.g. Veritas) are exceptional.  They use a follow-the-sun system; I almost always get an indian tech but sometimes late in the day it transfers to the US.  I would say that these are generic comments about Indian call centres (or rather, about call centres in general) and should not be gon into in such detail here.  The reasons for using call centres are well understood, after all.  Caveat: I think my firm spent $4m with Dell last year, so we get quite good service :-) - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] AfD? 10:54, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok guys, we have a potential for a revert war here. We need to decide some kind of policy either we include a crisism section for all major computer companies or we don't. We can't just pick on the biggest company and say that we have a NPOV. So it either needs to go or be added to other companies. (Oh and it would be nice if people would discuss this on here before making drastic changes to the page) --Pboyd04 17:23, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Just a thought is there a way we could do a section for deletion discussion similar to a AfD? --Pboyd04 17:25, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't see what everyone is moaning about - Other computer company articles such as Apple Computer and Microsoft have criticism sections. If someone thinks its unfair 'picking' on Dell, then just write a criticism for articles such as HP as well instead of removing good information from the Dell article. I hardly think its POV having info on the Dell article that other articles don't - It's more a case of the need of expansion for articles that are missing the Criticism section. — Wackymacs 17:29, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I guess the main problem is that there are 2 Dell specific critisms the rest are really critisms of the entire industry. Call centers in India, Consumer groups being upset that large corporate accounts (that usually have expensive service contracts) get better service, and hardware failures are not Dell specific and should either be removed or copied to every single computer companies page. The stuff on Apple's and Microsoft's pages actually are specific (for the most part) critisms. These aren't. --Pboyd04 17:37, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Even the Dell-specific claims are not uniquely applicable to Dell, but actually I think that it is entirely fair to include component compatibility and "Intel-only". Other issues such as the Maxtor failures and GX270 power capacitor issues are specific but debatable as I've seen similar batch faults with IBM, HP and Apple before now.  Call centre grouses are wholly generic.  No reason these should not be included, in the form "Dell also receives generic PC industry complaints of blah, blah and blah".  In general Dell are highly regarded, and their onsite service package (consumer and business) is the most user-friendly of any I've had to deal with in recent years. - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] AfD? 17:49, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Here are some numbers I pulled off the Better Business Bureau's web site www.bbb.org


 * Number of Complaints in the last 36 months:
 * Apple Computer - 584
 * Hewlett Packard - 1833
 * Microsoft - 2809
 * Dell - 13,133
 * H2O 07:56, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * If a criticism is valid it doesn't matter if it applies uniquely to Dell or the entire industry. If it is valid for the entire industry it should be in the articles of every company in the industry.--Onesloth 09:16, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

"Dell claims that by purchasing a non-Dell part, you validate the Windows End User License Agreement and therefore must purchase a new copy of Windows." - Should this say invalidate?
 * Probably but I almost want to remove that without a citation. Sounds like something a confused tech support guy said at one point and the customer that recieved the load of BS has passed it around. I can't see that being Dell's actual stance on the issue. --Pboyd04 23:35, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * This is John, a member of the Online Community Outreach team at Dell headquarters. I noticed that the blurb of the battery recall makes only a passing mention of other manufacturers who were affected by the Sony battery failures, such as Apple and Lenovo, but that the articles for those other manufacturers do not include this information. I am not sure why this would be considered a "criticism" of Dell. It could be argued that Dell, being the first to step up and issue a recall, was doing the right thing "first". The article's presentation leads readers to believe that this was a Dell problem, when in fact it was an industry-wide problem. I am uncertain why this would be included in Dell's article but completely absent from the article of Dell competitors, since it isn't really a criticism of Dell per se. Any thoughts? 143.166.255.57 20:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

ihatedell.net
I restored the external link to ihatedell.net - I feel that this site is notable due to the fact that it has over 3000 registered users - if you can get past the juvenile front page you'll find it contains a significant amount of information about the company's culture and inner workings H2O 07:35, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Appearantly somebody has since removed it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shyranis (talk • contribs) 21:13, February 12, 2006.

Yes, someone deleted the ihatedell link again, so i will restore it one more time. I can't quite remeber the description for it, but anyone can edit that as they see fit.

Please do not add that link here again. I do not seen anything interesting in there. I just want to ask what are you going to get for hating?. DO you gain anything out of it?. If in future this links are added it will be deleted. Thank You. --SkyWalker 08:07, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I have re-added the link per WP:EL and WP:NPOV. GreenJoe 22:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Tech Support
In my numerous calls to Dell TS in the past year, I've noticed that the names of the people answering have changed (they've become American/Eurpeanized). The accents of the speakers, however, have not. I think it would be an interesting addition to the tech support section if I could get a reference on it. 06/07/06

Revamped support section entirely due to largely incorrect information. Provided links to support revisions. Anable

Some of the information in the support section is now wrong. As a former Dell employee I happen to know that many Dell support engineers aren't scripted at all and none of Dell's silver, gold or platinum call centres are in India. The article also neglects to mention the EMEA area call centres in places such as Cherrywood (Dublin) and Glasgow. Gs83 03:42, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Merge from Service tag
See box above. Any objections to implementing the merge consensus? I'm trying to help reduce the Merge backlog. --Boson 18:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Did no one pick up on the obvious that many companies beyond Dell use service tags? 96k results.--Crossmr 20:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The service tag is unique to Dell. Other companies use serial numbers. Not a big difference maybe but it is a difference. --wraithfivefa 04:12, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

False statement?
''Dell currently ships Microsoft Windows XP (soon Windows Vista) as the default operating system for most of its new computers but also offers Red Hat and SUSE Linux for servers as well as "bare-bones" computers without pre-installed software (N series by default and XPS as well as Inspiron notebooks upon request) at significantly lower prices. Due to Dell's licensing contract with Microsoft, Dell cannot offer those systems on their website and customers have to request them explicitly. Dell has to ship such systems with a FreeDOS disk included in the box and must issue a so-called "Windows refund" or a merchandise credit after sale of the system at the "regular" retail price.''

I called Dell sales representative and he claimed that he had never been aware of such a policy. I asked him to go ask for his manager twice, and the manager confirms that there is no such policy and each dell desktop computers will always preinstalled with windows XP or better.

Can someone clarify this issue? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.50.91.70 (talk) 17:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

Sure, but it's a multipart answer. I am a long-time Dell enterprise customer who primarily uses Linux. (1) Globally, Dell supplies and supports the option of Dell-supplied Red Hat Enterprise Linux across its range of PowerEdge servers. (2) Globally, Dell certifies to customers that Red Hat Enterprise Linux will run with listed caveats on OptiPlex desktops. The customer needs participate in the factory disk image program, to provide Dell with the disk image, to arrange their own licensing, and to meet the minumum order numbers for the factory disk image program. (3) In the USA and selected countries, Dell supplies and supports selected desktops packaged with FreeDOS (the "N series"). Dell does not certify or support these machines to work with any other operating system, although it is open to Linux distributors to do their own certification and software support. This range has been somewhat surrounded by conspiracy theories: mainly that Dell make them difficult to find so as not to antagonise Microsoft. There are some Microsoft documents discovered during the US's anti-trust investigation that support this view. Also, this range has not sold well, so the better-selling Windows equivalents are often better or cheaper. From the current N series specifications, they seem to have been left to wither on the vine and are being run out at low prices to clear old inventory. (4) In the USA and selected countries, Dell has announced (and thus must ship within months due to US mail order laws) that it will supply and support Ubuntu 7.04 on a small number of selected computers in the Dell range. Gdt 11:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Remove Picture
I strongly suggest that we remove the following picture from the dell article:



This picture does not even focus on just the Dell equipment. Anyone else have any opinion?

Eric 00:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I'm going to thumb that just so its not so large on scroll down. As far as removing it. I don't particularly see any major value, and its making a pov statement about what a "typical" workstation is.--Crossmr 22:22, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no particular opinion, but I will just point out that the picture was a GNU Free license replacement for a fair use image. MortimerCat 00:32, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

About the reversions
Recently I've seen a spree of vandalism "trolling" the Dell brand for no reason other than fun. Placing comments like what I have seen in vandalized edits is considered damaging other peoples' works and will be reverted back to the last known good edit. If you have nothing contructive to contribute on this article, do not touch it.

The rules and regulations clearly state out what you can do and what you can't do here, so please familiarize yourself with that if you haven't done so yet. &mdash; Vesther (U * T/R * CTD) 02:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Addendum: I should also point out that content must be verifiable as well. This "Dell guy" who got fired for substance abuse only was arrested for marijuana use and not for heroin use. Please ensure that all content can be verified all over the internet before making assumptions. &mdash; Vesther (U * T/R * CTD) 03:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Semi-Protection necessary
This article has been hit with a good history of vandalism and I have to recommend at this point one of the Wikipedia experts request a semi-protection for this article. If, after I arrive back at my dwelling, no one requests semi-protection, I will request the semi-protection myself. It has become a necessity to protect this article from vandalism by semi-protection at this point of time. &mdash; Vesther (U * T/R * CTD) 21:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The vandalism here isn't significant enough to warrant protection; it is easily being caught by editors. See eg Angels and Airwaves for which semi-protection was declined yesterday for exactly that reason. --Pak21 09:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I think you should change the picture back to DELL!!!


 * I am a Dell representative. We have noticed that your Dell Dimension article has been vandalized and also contains what I purport to be biased language. No one has seen or replied to my comments on that page.

John 143.166.226.40 15:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Pioneer days...
I swear that DELL was started around the days of the pioneers, their version of a computer was a calculator like big board. No inernet of course. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Andokool12 (talk • contribs) 17:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC). ...The point is? Ball of pain 01:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, the point is that there should be something on when it started back then. I donn't really know everything about that though so I can't help you there (sorry).

"originally developed by Microsoft"???
This statement from the opening section:

"Originally developed by Microsoft, Dell computers were planned to be the only desktop machine to run Windows; However after Microsoft's 1994 "Preperation Consideration Gala", prior to the release of Windows 95, Microsoft determined it would be best to allow multiple desktop systems to support the Windows family of operating systems."

Sounds completely untrue. Many platforms supported Windows prior to 1994. I can't believe that Dell computers were "originally developed by Microsoft." The citation isn't a web page so it's impossible to verify.

Scrutchfield 14:30, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Restructure of dell organisation62.194.88.141 20:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

You are correct. This statement is untrue and have been removed. Dell was founded by Michael Dell in 1984 under a different name (the name eludes me at the moment). Dell computers were sold well before Windows 95 and since Windows existed and shipped on many other systems prior to 1994 I have removed this statement. I also could find no record anywhere of any "Preperation [sic]Consideration Gala".

wraithfivefa 13:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

What happen to Dell brand?
Today, I thought of buying a new Dell laptop and did a small market survey and found some alarming facts. I found that the customers' response for Dell computers has drastically come down. HP and Toshiba are playing good in the market. Further found HP is maintaining a good rapo with possible clients. Nirvanatoday 08:25, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Ubuntu & Dell
In case you wanna use it, here's a screenshot (fair use) of Dell's homepage with Ubuntu featuring: http://www.flickr.com/photos/towsonu2003/512646534/ Towsonu2003 03:37, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Dell's green recycling program
I remember hearing about Dell's commitment to being more green, and they included a recycling program launched by Dell quite a long while ago. I'm wondering why the Dell page doesn't mention this at all, while the Apple Inc. page gets a big mention of their green policies. So it seems a bit unfair to me. I found Dell's recycling site if anyone is interested. Here's the link : http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/dell_recycling?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

Quikboy--Quikboy 03:21, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Removed statement regarding manufacturing
I have removed the (as of yet not cited) statement in this article saying:

"Dell plans to consolidate manufacturing to Malaysia and China in 2007 and has also decided to enlarge its plant in Malaysia."

As an employee of their manufacturing facility in Limerick, Ireland, I have heard nothing of the sort. Dell have no immediate plans to scale down manufacturing in Ireland, and as I have added to the article a plant is currently being built in Poland. --Zilog Jones 23:44, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Please provide a source for that. Regardless of whether or not you're an employee, information has to be independently verifiable. I'm also sure that Dell makes lots of decisions and plans without telling you, so whether or not you've heard something isn't proof of anything. Please see WP:V for further information on verifying information.--Crossmr 13:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Well there is no information I can find suggesting the removed sentence is true anywhere, and it was already marked as being not cited. It's not like Dell are going to publicly deny some comment with no basis on their Wikipedia article. Surely OR or whatever my own knowledge is considered as warrants the removal of a comment with absolutely no backing? Just try googling "dell lodz" and you'll get sufficient proof that they are in the process of starting production there (i.e. a place that is not Malaysia or China) - I didn't cite that statement as I did not know what would be the most appropriate source to use and am sure someone more experienced with that kind of stuff would add a reference eventually. --Zilog Jones 01:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * If there is a reliable source then add it to the article. No, this isn't harsh or mean spirited, but your personal knowledge, unless you're a verifiable subject matter expert or professional researcher, isn't particularly interesting or useful in deciding what unsourced information should and shouldn't be in the article. Hence the reason for WP:V. You claim to be an employee (the validity of which is immaterial), I could claim to be an employee. We could sit around having a big party where we all claim to be employees with personal information about the validity of a statement here. None of those opinions belongs in the article. What happens in 6 months if an editor questions the validity of a statement? Our response? "Oh well we had some guy here like 6 months ago, said he was some employee, said it was a bunch of baloney, so we removed it". I'm not sure but I don't think WP:CITE covers how to cite that appropriately. So the moral of the story is, if citations are so readily available please provide them. The policy puts the burden of evidence on the editor who wishes the material to be included to do so.--Crossmr 03:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * OK I understand your points. However, the statement in question is absurd. It is already half-way through 2007 and Dell have not announced the closure of any of their plants outside Malaysia and China - they are doing the complete opposite by opening another plant in Europe, and they are still advertising vacancies in their other facilities (e.g. here). Why would they abandon their current business model of assembling computers regionally to reduce costs? I'm certain despite the cheaper work available in these East Asian countries, the logistics involved of shipping all their computers around the world from two places would be prohibitively expensive, especially in the case of servers and desktops which can be quite large and heavy. According to this, the expansion in Malaysia is only for a support centre, i.e. the manufacturing facility there is still only for the Asia-Pacific market. I hope this is enough evidence to disprove said statement. --Zilog Jones 19:55, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Removing information and adding it are two different things, even if its done in the same edit. All I am saying is that if you're going to add information (especially about announcements) add sources. I certainly wasn't complaining about the removal of the old material.--Crossmr 23:31, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I did that yesterday as well. --Zilog Jones 20:56, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Criticism NPOV
Some of the language used in the criticism section seems unfairly biased against dell. While it is the criticism section and is going to expose faults, but language like "Dell did not disclose this transition to third parties, lessening any doubt that this was an underhanded move." is inappropriately biased against dell and should be remedied. -Dekkanar 20:58, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Headquarter moved out of US
Can somebody shed a little more light on the claim that Dell moved its headquarter from Texas to outside of U.S.? If it's correct can he maybe also fix the entry in the info panel on the right side in the article? Thanks. Source of information 24.81.130.107 18:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I just checked on a Routers ProVestor Plus Company Report on Dell, which states, as of July 13, 2007, that their corporate HQ is still in Texas. I would assume that this report is more myth then substance since a publically traded company would be required to report this sort of information, and a reliable source such as Routers would report it accurately. Tiggerjay 05:10, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clarifying it. You made a small typo in your answer - it's Reuters, not Routers. 24.81.130.107 21:35, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Dell and Linux Prior to 2007
As the article currently stands, it gives the impression that Linux is new to Dell as of 2007. This is not the case however. There is an excellent timeline with references that mentions some very interesting points:


 * Ralph Nader asked Dell (and 5 other major OEMs) in 1998 to offer alternate OSs to Windows, including Linux specifically for which "there is clearly a growing interest"
 * Dell started offering Linux notebook systems which "cost no more than their Windows 98 counterparts" in 2000, which soon expanded, with Dell becoming "the first major manufacturer to offer Linux across its full product line"
 * In late 2000:

Microsoft executive Joachim Kempin described his plan of retaliation and coercion to shut down competition from Linux: "I am thinking of hitting the OEM harder than in the past with anti-Linux actions" and will "further try to restrict source code deliveries where possible and be less gracious when interpreting agreements - again without being obvious about it," continuing "this will be a delicate dance"


 * "Dell disbanded its Linux business unit in early 2001"
 * In a 2003 interview Michael Dell denied that MS pressured them into doing an about-face with regard to desktop Linux, stating that it was for lack of sales: "unfortunately the desktop Linux market didn't develop in volume." but adding "We continue to offer Linux on the desktop and there is nothing else to say."


 * However, as was mentioned in 2004:

''So what does it mean "factory installed Linux"? If you want Dell to install Linux for you, first add on $119. But here is the annoying part. They won't send you a computer with Linux pre-installed. They sell you the computer and the boxes of software on the side, and then they make an appointment to send you someone who comes to your house or business and installs it there.''

I'll just clean that up a bit and add it into the article; a bridge to the part about Dell selling systems in 2007 might be a good idea, but for now I'll break it up into two subsections. -- Limulus 10:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)