Talk:Delta Upsilon/Archive 1

Oldest continual chapter
Our Hamilton chapter isn't the oldest chapter in fraternal existence. The Gamma Chapter of Beta Theta Pi at Washington and Jefferson college was installed in 1842 and is still active. It sucks that we don't hold that title but we need to give credit where credit is due. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.162.117.29 (talk) 20:12, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Forth oldest active chapter
I removed that following the 6th oldest international fraternity, (fourth oldest still active). the 5 other fraternities before are still active and functioning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.222.131.129 (talk) 22:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Alumni Lists
As of now, DU has two alumni lists on wikipedia - one that is a part of the main article, and another that is linked to the main article. The main article list should only be used for the most "significant" alumni, as in alumni that are important enough to be household names, have substantial articles on wikipedia, just common sense "significance." Yes, all DU's are equally important, just acknowledge that some are more important in the eyes of the general population. If there is an alumni who is lesser recognized, but still somewhat significant, please only place him on the LINKED list, the one that is SEPARATE from the main article. Having a bunch of dead links on the main Delta Upsilon page looks trashy, so don't do it.75.82.126.191 21:30, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, try to keep the list on the main page current to what IHQ lists on www.deltau.org. While I realize that there are many alumni worth mention, IHQ compiles the list that they recognize as "notable" I believe we should trust their judgment when it comes to the main page.DUKyleXY 19:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I have removed Senator Justin Smith Morrill from the list of members of your fine fraternal order. I am on the Board of Directors at the Justin Smith Morrill Homestead. I have also worked for the State of Vermont giving guided tours of the Homestead. I have read the two biographies of Senator Morrill and have consulted with the Strafford, Vermont historical society. There is no evidence that Senator Morrill was ever a member of the Delta Upsilon fraternity--or any other. In fact, he never attended any college or university and only had honorary degrees bestowed upon him. terrapin 13:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Rickscully, below is the response from our Fraternity Historian and Director of Alumni Development for Delta Upsilon International Fraternity:

"Just as Justin Morrill received an honorary degree from the University of Pennsylvania, so did he receive an honorary membership into the Delta Upsilon Fraternity. Because of his birth-tie to the state of Vermont, he was reeled in as an honorary initiate by the Middlebury Chapter by virtue of the fact of his social standing as a member of the United States Congress.   Records show that Morrill was initiated in 1860, which would have been a year before his Tariff Act became public.  So, while it was obviously incorrect in saying that he attended Middlebury College, he was indeed initiated as an alumnus into Delta Upsilon Fraternity.  One need not attend college to receive an honorary membership, which does indeed make one a member in full and good standing. Craig S. Sowell Fraternity Historian"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Martens173 (talk • contribs) 17:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems very redundant to have a list of prominent alumni in this article when a separate page exists for them. If there are no objections, I think they should be removed.  Jr ss r5  23:28, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That is consistent with treatment elsewhere in this project and in the universities project. It's not unreasonable to have a few of the most significant alumni listed, as with Sloan and Kettering currently. The bulk of the list should be in the article pointed to, though, and not here. —C.Fred (talk) 16:30, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Colors
DUs I edited your colors in your text box. They reference the correct tags for Sapphire Blue and Old Gold. I hope you don't mind but I've been updating my page for the last week or so and my DU buddy mentioned his page.Airpear 19:46, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Crest Issues
I uploaded the DU crest and used the file from the DeltaU.org clipart section. I will be very aggravated if they removie it given the fact that the DU website clearly states it can be used for this very purpose.
 * If you clearly show that it can be used for this purpose, and tag it as such, then there should be no issues. Otherwise, don't be too upset if someone does remove it. Jmlk17 18:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

How do I cite the website where I am taking it from to prove it? I already uploaded the pic to wiki but it was removed from this page pretty promptly.
 * You first of all have to find a free image. Jmlk  17  07:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Can someone please upload the DU crest, the page looks illegitimate next to other fraternity pages on wikipedia without it.
 * Have at it...be bold. Jmlk17 09:25, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Chapter List Issues
Chapter Websites are located with the respective chapter. They are contained in the number after the name in the "chapters" section. Instructions are also included.

Chapter websites should be located on this page somewhere. I see no harm in listing them at the bottom with the IHQ website. If someone does not find that acceptable, they should re-work the page to include them elsewhere.

I apologize; I made the mistake of listing the GTDU chapter website under external links. I went ahead and deleted it along with a few others because the chapter sites can be reached by clicking the number that corresponds to the chapter. Listing all the websites at the bottom would be redundant and take up too much space. Wolfted0 13:47, 22 May 2006 (GT)

Again, listing each Chapter's Website at the bottom of the page is redundant and will just end up taking up too much space. If you would like to change the way the page is formatted in the first place, then discuss it here first so that good decisions are made. In order to add a chapter's website use this formatting after that chapter's name in the Chapter's section ( Georgia Tech)  Wolfted0 20:38, 6/6/6 (GTDU)

I'm obviously editing the chapters when I get time, but I think that this (Chicago) is the best way to display them, mostly to save space. Palm_Dogg 15:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Are you a DU, if so what chapter are you from? Is they anything that I can help you with in requards to the DU section, i am a member of the ASU Colony (Soon to be chapter). RobertScheib


 * DU Chicago I'm still searching around the other fraternity sites to see what the norm is.  Palm_Dogg 04:19, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, contact me on AIM FRBAS16 and we can work together. RobertScheib

As I see it, here's what needs to be done. I have to replace the Template with the Fraternity Infobox. Under "Alumni" we should probably reorganize it so that it's a lot neater (Like the Fijis have done). Then someone (Probably me) is going to have to go through our twenty page history and condense it down to a couple graphs. Maybe throw in a few pictures here and there. But that's about it. Palm_Dogg 19:30, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

DELTA U!
Look guys, i don't mean to rain on your parade, but either you aren't actually without secrects or a certain chapter of yours is breaking the rules. I've got brothers who have been allowed in for PART of the ceremonies, but there is always a few hours near the end where we are told "it's no one's buisness but ours" and asked to leave, what's the deal???


 * Could you please elaborate? I know at chapter meetings and ceremonies pledges aren't allowed in the main room for certain periods of time, and at some social events, non-brothers are basically thrown out so the brothers and their dates can have some quiet time. Palm_Dogg 01:14, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * All of the International Fraternity's rituals can be downloaded in .pdf format at www.deltau.org This is the only resource provided to DU chapters for rituals, and any traditions that chapters practice should accord entirely with the fraternity's principles, including non-secrecy.

Wolfted0 2:23, 4/18/06 (GT)

The only thing I can think of is the during Rite 1 of initiation it is typically only supposed to be associate members and a few brothers. However, if someone wants to attend this part of the ceremony they are more than welcomed to in our chapter. (NCSU)

I guess the issue arises more often during pledging because typically it is a process governed and experienced only by pledges, hence why they are in fact pledging the fraternity. Secrecy has never been a problem at our chapter (Swarthmore) with our meetings typically attended by Deans, facilities people, and representatives from student groups.

I've never seen anything like this at my chapter (Western Reserve). The only thing we do that isn't open to everyone is the meeting where we decide who gets bids.

This hasn't been an issue at my chapter in Canada. Could be specific to the chapter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.66.92.176 (talk) 06:25, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Copyright violation
The history section in this article is taken from http://deltau.org/Default.aspx?action=Content&ContentId=89, which claims copyright over it. It cannot be included in this article unless it is released under the GFDL, which only the author has the right to do. If the author wishes to do so then an e-mail must be sent from an identifiable address to permissions@wikimedia.org to verify that this is permitted. --Cherry blossom tree 18:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

AOEU significant deletion
What was the reason behind AOEU significant deletion of DU's history? I understand that some of it was not needed but the entire reason of the creation of DU is now missing and subsequent history is missing. Frbas16 09:57, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Expansion Tag
The whole article is pretty much just a small introduction, followed by a list of notable members. It really needs an expansion. Jmlk17 03:11, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Deadlinks
The entire notable members section is chock full of deadlinks...it just sorta makes the page look unorganized and unkempt. Jmlk 1  7  06:05, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I will start to go through and clean some of them up and see if they can link up. Martens173

How come every time I fix a link you switch it back? I am trying to clean up this section, please stop changing what I am doing. Martens173
 * Because of WP:NOTABILITY...just because someone founded a law firm, doesn't make them notable. Just review the policy :).  Jmlk  1  7  19:42, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Call me crazy but I think someone who founded a law firm and is the COO is a notable alumni. He is proud of his accomplishments and wants to be added and as a DU I think he should be added to.. Should we go through an then delete any alumni who founded a company? I dont think so. Martens173
 * I'm not arguing that with you. I'm arguing the fact that he is not notable in the sense that he is a nationally or internationally recognized person.  Jmlk  1  7  20:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I think I have solved this problem. I have created a separate article for the full list as listed on the DU Website, it is titled. I have left a few of the more notables. Please review my edit and let me know what you think. DUKyleXY 22:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I like it. I might go through and add some just a couple more back to the main page. Martens173

Neutrality and Factual Accuracy Tags
I was hoping that the editor who added the neutrality and factual accuracy tags would explain his/her reasoning.

I am very willing to edit the article to meet Wiki standards, I just need something to go off of.

Thanks, DUKyleXY 19:03, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Collaboration
Myself and JagerDUck have been in contact regarding a possible collaboration. I am hoping to find some time to work on this at LI this August with JaagerDUck. If you will be attending LI, please leave me a message or email me at kdsolberg@gmail.com. If we collaborate, there will be no need to go back and redo any information one of us Ducks puts on. Dikaia Brothers, DUKyleXY Iowa State '10

DUKyleXY 00:29, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, please checkout my sandbox User:DUKyleXY/Sandbox to see what I am working on for the DU page. It will end up looking very similar to the Phi Delta Theta page, but that is one of the recommended articles on WP:FRAT Feel free to edit or add what you think needs to be added, I just ask you to please summarize your change in the talk page of the sandbox. Thanks, DUKyleXY 02:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

POV problems
Only positive information is presented in the article, and the tone is similar to promotional literature distributed by the fraternity. I've trimmed the worst sections, but sources should be consulted to identify criticisms, controversies, etc. The history should probably be rewritten to avoid making DU look like the hero of the story. -- Beland (talk) 00:49, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Copyvio
I think the blatant copyvio from the website needs to be addressed. The removal of that guts the article. I haven't yet tagged it for speedy but it might pass on those grounds TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Needs rewriting/cleanup

 * 1) This whole article needs to be completely redone. Alpha Phi Alpha should be used as a model for reworking it as that fraternity's article was a featured one.
 * 2) The fraternity oath should probably be removed. It is not a standard inclusion for fraternity articles.
 * 3) The list of members should be removed entirely with the most notable names reworked into a prose somehow in the style used by Alpha Phi Alpha. The removed names can be included on the seperate member list.  Redlink names should be not be included in either list unless  sigificant. So far as the prosing goes, I would suggest discluding athletes, educators and most entertainers. Nobel prize winners can be mentioned in a single paragraph. Also notable would be most of the folks listed in government, especially if they were presidents, chief justices or premiers. I'd also include some of the business folks and the two writers listed.
 * 4) A history section is desperately needed. (Sourcing is important)

--Lendorien (talk) 15:21, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I have been working on a draft of a rewrite for the DU Page working off of the best practices for the WikiProject. The draft can be found at User:DUKyleXY/Sandbox. Please feel free to edit anything you see as wrong or biased, just explain the changes in the discussion page. If you don't see something you feel should be added, let me know.

DUKyleXY (talk) 11:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

New Chapter
As mentioned on the updated chapter list, NFU is no longer the newest chapter, Webster University is. The introduction should be changed to reflect this.QuietThings (talk) 01:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Vandals
There seems to be an ip user who is vandalizing our page multiple times. Each time, the content is changed to something regarding SAM (Likely Sigma Alpha Mu) and that DU "suck cock". Please keep a watch out...the user has been logging on from an ip similar to 126.151.141.48

Thanks to User:Phantomsteve for his help with our situation. DUKyleXY (talk) 02:14, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Fair Warning...
To all the DU Editors out there....

I intend to replace the current article text with this text I have been working on for sometime. I will plan on fully replacing the text around 10:00pm CST on Monday, November 16th, unless there is any reasonable objection. Please look over the new text and let me know if you have any corrections/comments/suggestions. The new article should rate around a B-Class article under the Fraternities and Sororities Wikiproject.

Thanks DUKyleXY (talk) 21:38, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I see a number of technical edits to be made—punctuation, combining references, italicizing titles, and the like. As for the nature of the rewrite, I agree that it will provide a more solid article for the WikiProject. —C.Fred (talk) 22:11, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Advert Claim
I deleted this box because it doesn't seem to me to have any legitimacy. If someone has an actual example of where this article seems to be a blatant advertisement rather than a encylopedic entry, please post. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris1834 (talk • contribs) 17:22, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

 * 1) Well-written?
 * In infobox, the image looks blurry when it is printed. Reduce the size to improve clairty. Spell out MA (which I presume is Massachusetts).
 * Lead section has Old West College. Where is that located? Location addedDUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "Founding" subsection under "History"
 * The colleges listed in the last sentence of the first paragraph of "Founding" - where are they located? Locations addedDUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * On 'Convention' in the first section of the second paragraph, does this need to be capitalized? Check WP:MOS on capitalization for this. Also what convention are you talking about? It is not clear.
 * For the 'Convention of 1852' in the third paragraph, where did it take place? Did Western Reserve College change names since 1852? Location added, Western Reserve is now known as "Case Western Reserve" left original name for continuity, links to Case Western Reserve UniversityDUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "Early Years" subsection under "History"
 * Does "Fraternity" need to be capitalized every time? Check WP:MOS for capitalization. Of the collges listed in the first paragraph, have they changed names? If so, list the current name of the college. Fixed fraternity capitalization and college namesDUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Put the founding of the fraternity in chronological order for the next two paragraphs of this section. It gives it a better flow. Events are in chronological order.DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * In the third paragraph, the sentence "The first chapter by petition, at Tufts University approved in 1891." needs to be written as "The first peitioned fraternity chapter was approved in 1891 at Boston's Tufts University." Like wise, the next sentence "The first chapters on the West Coast, established at Stanford University and University of California, Berkley in 1896" need to be written as "The first fraternity chapters in the Western United States were established both at the University of California at Berkeley and at Stanford University in neighboring Palo Alto in 1896". ✅DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "Twentieth Century" subsection under "History"
 * Why is the college for Charles Evans Hughes italiczed in the second paragraph? Check WP:MOS under italicization. Also why is Incorporation capitalized? Check WP:MOS under capitalization. Was italicized because that is the convention the fraternity utilizes, changed to regular text in parenthesis.DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * For the third paragraph, change "the South" to "the Southern United States".✅DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * In the fifth paragraph in the second sentence, change the part of "...Board of Director held the first annual Leadership..." to "...Board of Directos held its first annual Leadership..."✅DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Check WP:MOS on capitalization. "Fraternity Brothers" and "Franternity" do not need to be capitalized.✅DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * In the seventh paragraph, define "wet rushing". People and and readers who have never been in fraternities or sororities do not know what that is. For the third sentence of that paragraph, it should read "Delta Upislon was not immune to these pressure, but the fraternity did not sit idle". The fifth sentence should read "In addition, the fraternity was one of the first to emphaisze the dangers of hazing and implemeted more positives pledge education programs." For the final sentence, who were some of the chapters that were suspended or had their charters revoked as a result of the fraternity's policies? Sentences fixed, as for the chapters who were suspended or closed, that information is better suited for the chapters list IMODUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * For the final paragraph, when in the 1990s was the McQuaid Commission established, how long did it run, and what impact did it have on the fraternity itself? ✅ -- arm oren o10 18:42, 20 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "Coat of Arms" subsection under "Fraternity" section
 * Do all of the items shown on the coat of arms need to be italicized? Check WP:MOS on italicization on this. FixedDUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "Member Badge and Associate Member Pin" subsection under "Fraternity" section.
 * Show location of the pin images in text listed in section.✅DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

For the third paragraph showing the Four Founding Principles, please put them in numbering (#) rather than in bullet points (*). The principles are listed as bullets because they are not a numbered group, just four principles and none is more important than another.DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * "Motto and Four Founding Principles" subsection under "Fraternity" section.
 * Where is the source for the first paragraph? AddedDUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "Board of Directors" subsection of "Fraternity Structure"
 * Define UGAB. Incorporate this in the next section into the Board to clear up the confusion. As for Provinces, would it make more sense to put that in as regions? Provinces make me think this fraternity is Canadian rather than American. Provinces are the official name for the regional groupings of chapters. The fraternity does have chapters in Canada though.DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "Educational Foundations" subection of "Fraternity Programs"
 * What programs and scholarships has DUEF given? Howa long have they been given out? What is the total amount spent of these programs? Information addedDUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "Winter Educational Conference" subsection of "Franternity Programs"
 * Where are the Winter Educational Conferences held? Where is Phired Up Recruitment located? Locations addedDUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "The Delta Upslion Quarterly" subsection of "Fraternity Publications"
 * Italicize the magazine in the subsection.✅DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "The Fraternity Manual" subsection of "Fraternity Publications"
 * In the last sentence, remove "...edition-fifth printing..." from the sentence. Edition is already listed once.✅DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Italicize the "Ritual Book" in the "Franterity Ritual" subsection of "Fraternity Publications". Also, list references for the last four paragraphs of this subsection. ✅DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * In "Fraternity Awards" section, list noted winners for each award given.


 * Spell out DU in the "Partner Charity" section. ✅DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "Notable brothers" section should be changed out to "Notable members". For all Delta Upsilon fraternity members listed, list the college and/or university that they were in the fraternity. ✅DUKyleXY (talk) 23:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) Factually accurate
 * References check out though some sections are missing some.
 * Reliable sources are valid and verifiable.
 * No original research.
 * 1) Broad in coverage
 * Addresses main aspects in fraternity.
 * Focuses on the fraternity.
 * 1) Neutral
 * Lists some of the history of the fraternity, but does not go into enough detail on which chapters were suspended or revoked in rgards to collegiate alcohol policies.
 * 1) Stable
 * Last edits done on 20 February 2010 as of this entry.
 * 1) Images
 * All images shown are OK regarding fair use and copyright status.
 * Captions are suitable for project. Image in infobox looks blurry and may need to be cleaned up.
 * 1) Overall
 * Hold - needs a lot of work, but can be done. Chris (talk) 19:48, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

this article
This article is a massive, rambling mess. Since the only source for anything here is the DU website we might as well just throw a link directly up to it and do away with the 90,000 words of text. Anyway, I'm going to try to fix it over the next few days. DocumentError (talk) 08:47, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
 * OKAY, my edits are now done. This is what was changed (here is the previous version, for comparison: :


 * I uploaded nine new images and added them to the article, and found a couple relevant images on the Commons that were added (I think we had 2 images previously). I also added a sound file of HDU. I would like to add the Delta Upsilon Ode but there is no clear copyright on it.
 * I created and added an expansion animated gif map.
 * I eviscerated the entire history section which was primarily sourced to the fraternity's history and the most recent book, both of which are not only non-RS but basically seem to be the transcripts of a pep rally versus actual history (For example, the dissolution of the 1956 Undergraduate Convention was a major historical episode; the fraternity's various official histories skip right over it. Also, the 1879 amendment of the anti-secrecy statutes has been critically evaluated by many outside observers but DU has consistently and pathologically refused to acknowledge that. Further, the spate of chapter closings in the '90s is totally omitted from the fraternity's history of itself.) Insofar as possible the history section is now sourced to non-DU sources and, in some parts, the 1935 book.
 * I added a section on "secessionist chapters." I was concerned this might be WP:UNDUE, however, after looking at the similar (but differently named) section in Phi Delta Theta, and considering the importance of the D-Psi and DU Club splits, I included it.
 * I eliminated a large body of text that is simply not appropriate for an encyclopedia entry and would be more appropriate for the DU website (Do we need a 500-word description of the governing structure, or the entire verbatim text of the oath of initiation?).
 * I took the Four Founding Principles out of the infobox as it's just not the kind of thing you put in the infobox. I did add in a mascot line, though.
 * I toned down some of the language that sounds like it was lifted from a rush brochure.
 * I added an "In Popular Culture" section.
 * C'est tout. DOCUMENT  ★  ERROR  12:30, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

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Sixth oldest?
Given that they are #7 among fraternities, when the list is sorted by age, at List of social fraternities and sororities, what's the source for the claim that their sixth-oldest? —C.Fred (talk) 17:50, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

The claim of "oldest" in the context of North American fraternities usually refers to rank among general fraternities (sometimes called "national fraternities" though several include chapters in Canada) with multiple chapters - not locals, not academic, not honorary, etc. The List of social fraternities and sororities contains Lambda Iota, a local fraternity at the U. of Vermont, inactive on the undergraduate level since 2007. Said list really should be revised to include all local fraternities, or renamed to refer to multiple-chapter organizations with deletion of the locals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tdhwa9y1 (talk • contribs) 14:43, 26 February 2017 (UTC) Tdhwa9y1 (talk) 13:15, 28 February 2017 (UTC)