Talk:Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong

Disputed
I removed the following sentence from the first paragraph in the controversy section.

"However, it is reported that some of the participants do not know they are going to join the rallies until they are sent to the venue."

Someone should provide a link to prove this claim before it is put back in the article. --205.250.250.154 21:45, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You may want to look into the archives of local newspapers for reports related to either of the July 1 protests, when the FTU and other pro-Beijing organisations held activities nearby. There was similar coverage on a campaign rally for the DAB candidates for the 2004 LegCo election. &mdash; Instantnood 19:53, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Please provide links, we need proof, I would rather not simply take your word for it. This sounds very POV. --154.20.68.142 08:13, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It's nothing POV here. They're facts that most familiar with Hong Kong politics can tell. You can verify it from the archive of many local newspapers. &mdash; Instantnood 12:50, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I follow the politics there every day, and I have two friends who are journalists for the South China Morning Post. The allegations you are making are very POV. It is YOUR responsibility to prove their factual accuracy, so if you cannot provide proper news article links here or in the article then the allegation should be removed. --205.250.250.154 05:06, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It's a paid service to look into the archives of many local newspapers, including the SCMP, as well as the Apple Daily and Ming Pao, which are among the best-selling Chinese-language daily papers here. That's the reason why I've suggested you to go to any of the archives, if you've an account. &mdash; Instantnood 16:22, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Provide a day and page number for an article that says so. That's what a citation is. It doesn't have to be an internet link and it doesn't have to be free, but someone should be able to go look it up exactly where you tell them to. SchmuckyTheCat 17:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * When time allows. For the time being try look into the news after an assembly in support of the anti-subversion legislation on December 20 2002, after the July 1 2003 rally, when the DAB and its allies held a fair at the football pitches at Victoria Park, the election campaign rally on September 5 2004 for the LegCo election, or the "Anti-Politician Assembly" at Chater Garden on January 1 2005. &mdash; Instantnood 13:57, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm from HK too, but I think this particular sentence is a bit too POV, and is not necessary to describe the DAB. Did people do the same for the DP article?  In any event, it is wholly unnecessary and brings objectivity into disrepute.jsw663jsw663 15:57, 18 January 2006 (GMT)

Fair use rationale for Image:Image-Democratic Alliance for the Betterment of Hong Kong logo.GIF
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Centre-right
How is an organization that is considered to be pro-Beijing (i.e. in favor of the communist government, many policies are not friendly for business but support nearly all policies of the HKSAR government) labeled as a Centre-right political party.?????Marxistfounder (talk) 05:44, 4 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Agreed this is an important point. On Jasper Tsang's page it links to this page saying the party was founded by other leftists. Recommend that this label be removed or questioned. 2001:F40:943:874:5891:AE84:D812:C027 (talk) 03:01, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Funded by Communist Party of China
Hi, I think user Jsw663 believes it is author Beatty who seems to express the view that that political party is funded by the Communist Party of China. I have added some more sources to keep it in the history section. It really isn't a view expressed by the author. It is quite a unanimous view found in many books actually. If there are any problems, please let me know. I can add more sources. Benjwong (talk) 03:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Economy
So whats this parties econimic position?--J intela (talk) 18:16, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * They're unabashed commies. You know, State owns all the means of production, kids of Party leaders go to the best schools, etc.Ndriley97 (talk) 00:30, 30 January 2009 (UTC)


 * What is the point of listing ONLY elected seats, instead of total seats of district council of HK, as the meeting of district council is held NOT ONLY elected seats, but ALSO Ex Officio Member (Rural Committee Chairmen). Listing ONLY elected seats is very misleading to the readers. UU (talk) 12:53, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:52, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Logo of the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong.svg

Young DAB
Maybe we should have a section on the Young DAB. Cossaxx (talk) 17:52, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Political postion
In what way is the DAB center-right? The source for "center-right" position seems unreliable as it only describes the position as a metaphor and it doesn't mention any center right characteristics. "Center right" usually means pro-buisness, in which most of the party is definitely not (except those from the Hong Kong Progressive Alliance).

In the ideology section of the wiki, it mentions that DAB caters to the middle class by supporting increased spending: "The DAB's support of social welfare improvements, including greater spending on education, housing, and employee retraining, has given it strong grassroots support."

The section also calls DAB a big tent party, and there are many big tent parties across the world so describing DAB as big tent is not invalid.

Besides that, they also support the CCP, which believes that the state owns all the means of production. Guotaian (talk) 15:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The existing sources clearly indicate the DAB as centre-right. In contrast, the "big tent" of the source you presented is the claim of the DAB. The DAB ideologies presented in infoobox are clearly right-wing and cannot be viewed as left-wing. Being pro-CCP does not immediately mean being left-wing. The DAB is a conservative political party, conservatism is a right-wing ideology. "Conservatism" and "pro-business" are not the same.` ProKMT (talk) 07:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
 * conservatism in Hong Kong is not right wing. just look at the FTU. Conservatism in Hong kong is just pro beijing and it is comprised of pro-labour from traditional leftist, pro middle class parties like the dab and pro business parties like liberal or bpa. please look up United front.
 * Secondly, I didn't even conflate pro Beijing as left wing. I said it was a big tent party but it's original members were trade union members from the FTU. Only after it merged with the hk progressive alliance did it become pro middle class. Being socially conservatism doesn't mean right wing. The right left spectrum deals with the economic positions of the parties. For example, the New Zealand first party is socially conservative but yet it is not on the right. The source that claims it was center right is not any more reliable as it describes center right as a metaphor and its format is like a slideshow.
 * Guotaian (talk) 13:44, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Supporting Dirigisme's economic policies does not necessarily mean left-wing; such as Charles de Gaulle, Chiang Kai-shek, and Nobusuke Kishi are representative. FTU is a socialist, but the DAB is not. Not all pro-Beijing may be right-wing, but non-socialist pro-welfare conservatism is right-wing. Once again, "Big Tent" is the CALMs of DAB, but "Centre-right" is explicitly proved by the source. ProKMT (talk) 00:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The center-right source is a terrible source, please go find another ENGLISH source that says that it is center right. And in what way is DAB "non-socialist pro-welfare conservatism". Where are the "sources that mention that DAB was left-wing in the past but is now right-wing". Please find it for me. 同埋我係香港人，冇人叫民建聯右派. 你係咪香港人？ Guotaian (talk) 18:07, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I've found Chinese language sources that describe DAB as right-wing, and Chinese and English sources that mention that DAB was left-wing in the past but is now right-wing. I hope you don't deny that DAB's political position is "centre-right" anymore. ProKMT (talk) 02:26, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * "LSD leader Raymond Wong has admitted explicitly that the new party's ideology adopts a socialist or "left-wing" line. As he claimed, "The CP and the DP are both parties located at the middle but tilting toward the right. The DAB changes from the left-wing to a big right-wing party. The FTU is left-wing but it is often controlled by the DAB. We hold the real flag of being left-wing."
 * THIS WAS CLAIMED BY A OPPOSITION PARTY! HIS ENTIRE PURPOSE WAS TO PRETEND THAT DAB WAS "RIGHT WING". Guotaian (talk) 18:11, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * DAB itslef claiming that it is BIG TENT is better than other Parties claiming that it is "RIGHT-WInG" especially from opposition parties who wants to take away the vote. The quote above is from you source btw. Guotaian (talk) 18:31, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Nobody recognizes "CP and the DP are both parties located at the middle but tilting toward the right". It is just a lie made up by LSD to attract more voters. Guotaian (talk) 18:33, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I am tired of repeated disputes with you; I request a third opinion. ProKMT (talk) 07:36, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * likewise, i am just trying to be neutral. im not even saying that DAB is left wing. I added a source too. Guotaian (talk) 11:36, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Guotaian - I am not here to respond as a third opinion but as an outside helper to tell you to not WP:SHOUT to get your point across and to not use words that can be considered a WP:PERSONAL ATTACK. "Please stop pushing your agenda" can be a personal attack because you are assuming that the editor has a political bias against the subject in the article. Cowboygilbert  -  (talk) ♥  02:49, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

3O Response: In this case, I see sources which support both the "big tent" and "center-right" characterizations, and several indicate that even those labels are not entirely applicable. When something is too complex to distill down to a few words in an infobox, it should not be presented in the infobox at all. Rather, the body of the article should explain the differing positions various sources take on the party's political leaning and why, without taking a side on which one is right or trying to oversimplify it. I will note, as well, that it is not required that sources be in English, though if both English and non-English sources of equal reliability and comprehensiveness are available, the English ones are preferred. Seraphimblade Talk to me 19:26, 29 May 2024 (UTC)