Talk:Democratic Left Movement (Lebanon)

Name
Should this not be at Democratic Left Movement (Lebanon) or Movement of the Democratic Left? Palmiro | Talk 14:24, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * There's neither an official translation or website for this movement, nor a WP naming convention about party and movement related articles, so I think you're free to change the title. CG 20:36, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * it's the same name, isn't it? but i'm okay with the merger, go ahead. there is an official web site though: www.democratic-left.org. there, the name is given in the heading as just "the democratic left(ist)", but that is probably an abbreviated form, since it is at other places in the page written as "democratic left(ist) movement in lebanon". Arre 18:43, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * update on that: they abbreviate themselves as DLM in english, as in "DLM radio".

Definition needed
Could someone define the word "courant", as used in "However, DLM supports the existence of courants ..." and in several instances following. teneriff 03:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Additional peer review comments (July 2009)
The following are additional comments I intended to raise at the peer review, which was closed before I got back to it:- **Suggest change section name to "Early history", as it only deals with the foundation in September 2004, and the assassinations a year later.
 * History section - Foundation

**To avoid repetitions of the full title "Lebanese Communist Party" I have introduced the acronym "LCP" a few times, or otherwise referred to "the party"

*Assassinations: Why the multiple citations in the first sentence? Simple matters of fact need only a single, reliable source. As it stands, the sentence is difficult to read. Same point arises in the second paragraph. *The Structure and composition section has one brief subsection on internal elections, but tells us nothing of the DML's structure and composition. In the Internal elections subsection:-
 * "These activists and intellectuals who split from the LCP..." Is this the same group who, in the previous paragraph, called itself "the reform and democracy forces in the Lebanese Communist Party"? When did they formally split from the LCP?
 * You refer to the DLM being established at a ceremony "in September 2004". Can we have the actual date of this ceremony? :✅

**The word "own" in the first sentence is unnecessary :✅ **The term "National Assembly", in this usage, needs a bit of explanation. I take it to be the ruling committee of the new party, but this needs to be clarified.

**Rather than "not lose", say "retain" :✅ **"...while insisting on being a part of March 14." What does this mean?

**Ideology: "Thus, the DLM's ideology is a broad leftist platform that forms the common denominator among its constituents." Whose summary is this? If it is part of the Majed interview, it ought to be attributed to him. **Domestic Policy: Wording like "one of the few parties", "vehemently", "strongly" give this section a POV feel. You need to remove non-neutral adjectives to remain encyclopedic. :✅ **Cedar revolution: POV - suggest delete "unprecedented" and change "meddling" to "interference". Also, is "presumably from Syria" part of the stated goal, or is this editorial assumption? :✅ **Electoral results: "Representing the Maronite seat of Tripoli..." doesn't make sense (a seat representing a seat?) Rewording required. Also, this is the fourth mention of the March 14 Alliance, without any explanation of what it is. :✅
 * Final sentence needs further clarification. The voting percentages don't really tell us anything - you haven't given percentages for Atallah's lot. How many seats in the Assembly did each group win?
 * Political stances
 * Political activities

Hope these comments help. Brianboulton (talk) 19:46, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm working on it. Mnation2 (talk) 03:18, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

A-class
I would like to nominate this article for a-class review. In order to promote the article, two non-involved editors must support it without any opposes. I guess I'll have to find some reviewers... Mnation2 (talk) 02:32, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Mnation. This is a fine article and a good read. An A class is "Very useful to readers. A fairly complete treatment of the subject. A non-expert in the subject matter would typically find nothing wanting." I have listed some technical suggestions but the next big hurdle you truly face is making sure the reader is not left wanting. I read through it and at a few points I navigated away when I may not have needed to, rely on information I already had, or was left wanting. I added a few suggestions on expansion since it looks like an even broader presentation could be made with the resources available.
 * You have done an excellent job and I suspect getting this up to A class (or dare to dream FA) is within reach. I recommended taking this over to Peer review and getting more eyes on it. It will make the article that much better and you will hopefully get the two editors needed to allow its promotion in the assessment scale upon completion. You might also find out that my suggestions below are garbage (that is OK)! I have worked on a couple GAs and don't know how much you have so I want to stress that the criticism below is what I searched for and overall I really enjoyed the article.Cptnono (talk) 10:08, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Technical issues: **Is DLM a common enough acronym to be mentioned in the first line?
 * Abbreviations (WP:MOSABBR)

**Bold HYD

**The first mention of the Lebanese Communist Party requires "Lebanese Communist Party(LCP)" since LCP is used throughout.


 * Wording.
 * Miscellaneous
 * "previousley split" This would be better as "recently left" or simply "split". Did the group leave the party to form that other party or did it happen later?
 * The split from the LCP (in 2000) was four years prior to the founding of the DLM (2004). Mnation2 (talk) 02:26, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I still don't like "recently split". I could be wrong, though. Any thoughts on alternatives?


 * "all strands of leftism: "aspects" or something similar would read better than "strands"
 * ✅ Changed to "forms"


 * The section heading "Early history" could be simplified to "History". It realistically covers the whole thing.


 * " The DLM operates under a decentralized framework in which distinct currents" currents has a note explaining it. Since this isn't being used as a direct quote it can be summarized and then the note will not be needed. Try replacing "current" with "internal movement"


 * There is some language that might come across in a peacock manner. It could also be looked at as good writing. Here's what jump out at me and I would like to know what you think.
 * "champions for" might be grandstanding so "Is a proponent for" might tone it down.
 * I was thinking about that when I wrote it. "Champions" is perhaps over-the-top. I changed it to "affirms". Mnation2 (talk) 06:07, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * a "full half". The qualifier is not needed. It is a half. "Full" also implies that it is remarkable. Going off of the principles of WP:WORDS "only, just" section "Even in cases where the value judgment being made represents a widely held view, it is still inappropriate to lead a reader to agree with that view". Since it is remarkable add a line of text describing it instead of implying it.
 * ✅ I got rid of "a full".


 * Wikilinks
 * I'm not going to say all of them but do a quick clean up. You don't need to mention a couple such as Beirut so several times. When you do, the first one in the paragraph should be done. Some editors go for only one an article, others do per section, and some just eyeball it. Take a look at WP:LINKS.
 * Beirut in the assasinations seciton is not needed IMO.
 * Beirut in the assasinations seciton is not needed IMO.


 * Civil marriage or secular marriage could be wikilinked


 * confessionism is wikilinked. Is note #4 needed?
 * Atallah is wikilined. Is note #1 needed?


 * Image
 * Cedar Revolution image needs afair use rationale. See: Non-free use rationale guideline.
 * >It is also reccomended to not put images directly below third level section headings
 * ✅ Moved


 * Add alt text to Samir Kassir poster
 * This might need to be modified slightly but I'm not an alt text expert and it is a good step
 * This might need to be modified slightly but I'm not an alt text expert and it is a good step


 * You could actually remove the see also section since everything mentioned is Wikilinked above. See WP:SEEALSO

Hawi assassinations" sections. "Georges Hawi [...] was" -> "Georges Hawi... was"
 * Quotes
 * I don't believe the brackets are needed with the ellipsis in the "Kassir and
 * ✅ fixed


 * Have you considered paraphrasing ""[First], we are preachers of real social and cultural change on the bases of democracy, national independence and reconciliation with the Arab nation and Arab nationalism. Second we are preachers of cultural and ideological renaissance for the sake of secularism and political and religious reforms in the Arab east... Thirdly we believe in fighting for freedom and against tyranny and oppression."" It seems bulky. Break it up in too separate quotes or sentances maybe (or maybe not).
 * You might be going against Wikipedia's manual of style which calls for "punctuation marks inside the quotation marks if they are part of the quoted material and outside if they are not." See WP:LQ
 * I don't think I am, but I could be wrong.
 * I hate the "typesetter’s rule" even though it is big in the States.


 * Colour revolutons does not need to be capped within a sentence. Colour -> colour

Content issues (primary importance)
 * Political stances needs to be expanded. I noticed that you used "The DLM supports prohibiting the discrimination of the disabled" The source used has so many other social justice issues that really could add to this article and I would suspect there are other sources available. This is my biggest concern with the article.
 * ""Composed of 51 to 101 members, determined proportionately by the size of the constituency, it maintains political priorities, alliances, and rhetoric, and elects an Executive Committee of 9 to 15 members for daily organizational activities." What are the constituencies? what are the alliances? what are the daily organizational activities? Is there data in the form of more numbers on this?
 * Sources. You relied heavily on biased sources. You used them well and the bias did not creep in which is good but I would be curious to see what else is available in more mainstream media coverage that is less concerned with the issues.
 * Could you please provide an example of such a source? I've used all available resources (read: diverse, ideologically tilted, obscure) to scrape together this article and am not sure such sources exist. Mnation2 (talk) 02:26, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't have that many resources available in a harback published form for something like this so I always enjoy drilling through Google News Archives. Check out this or other variants. I personally have used but am always happier with something from a major agency.
 * The Google news archive is really helpful. Thanks! Mnation2 (talk) 03:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Google Scholar is also fun.


 * You used notes. Consider moving these into the prose if you keep them and the sources discuss both what is being noted and the subject here.
 * Is there some Wikipedia policy that opposes footnotes? I rather like them. Mnation2 (talk) 03:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Footnotes are OK but expansion of the main body might be better for this article. Keep it in mind but from an expansion standpoint.


 * "The DLM actively participated in the 2005 Cedar Revolution" and "Samir Kassir, a founder of the movement, played a significant role in orchestrating the protests" More would be awesome. What happened on the ground? What was the role? Numbers? Significant instances? Views from outsiders?
 * ✅ I beefed up this section considerably.


 * Criticism section. As it is, it is OK. I personally don't like criticism sections but this does not over weight the article. However, it might be better if the prose were expanded to the point that this section could be removed completely and the individual aspects could compliment the existing or soon to come prose. For example the Ziad Majed line could be moved into the section on the March 14th or the Brooklyn Rail commentary could be moved into policies.
 * Cptnono (talk) 10:08, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a ton for your input! I'm working on it... Mnation2 (talk) 02:26, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

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