Talk:Demographics of New Zealand/Archive 1

Question re: religion data
I don't mean to be frivolous, but per the entry on the Jedi Census Phenomenon in New Zealand, the response of 'Jedi' would be higher than that of Buddhists. Worth including? RB McLeroy 18:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Also, regarding freedom of religion, which cannot have been 'protected since the singing of the Treaty of Waitangi'(ToW) as the article claims (with a broken reference link), because the ToW was a legal 'nullity’ until the passing of the Treaty of Waitangi Act in 1975. The claim, as presented, is logically fallacious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.92.187.32 (talk) 10:54, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Redirect from New zealands population
The above new page was just created but I think the information belongs here, if anywhere. I have copied the text of the original article below in full. As it gave no reference I have no idea where it's from or how accurate it is!

Article text begins: The population is a great deal amount of people that are living in new zealand. In Auckland there are	1 050 000    people In Wellington there are	329 000      people In Blenheim there are	23 637        people In Christchurch there are	318 000      people In Nelson there are	50 000       people In Hamilton there are 	153 000      people In Whangarei there are	44 180        people In Napier/Hastings there are	112 000      people In Wanganui there are	41 210        people In Dunedin there are	112 000      people In Gisborne there are	31 480        people In Palmerston North there are	75 000       people In Timaru there are	27 640        people In Tauranga there are	76 000       people In Kapiti there are	27 380        people In Rotorua there are	55 000       people In Invercargill there are	52 000       people In New Plymounth there are	48 520       people Article text ends

Kim Dent-Brown  (Talk to me)  13:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Mentioning Jedi
In the religion (2001 census) can someone add a mention of Jedi? See Religion in New Zealand. S♦s♦e♦b♦a♦l♦l♦o♦s ( Talk to Me  ) 21:23, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Section on New Zealand diaspora?
I was trying to find some information on the New Zealand diaspora (NZ citizens living abroad) and there was no information on this page. Would someone add a section about this? I eventually found some information on the NZ government population website which estimated 600,000 New Zealanders, about 15% of the citizen population, live abroad, which might be a useful addition to this page as this high percentage is quite unusual. http://population.govt.nz/myth-busters/myth-10.aspx --62.234.176.6 (talk) 10:24, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Some information in the last paragraph of Immigration. AIR corn (talk) 12:49, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Changed heading to Migration. AIR corn (talk) 12:54, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Editor assistance needed at Talk:Welfare
It would be useful to have some input from editors whose native language is New Zealand English to provide their perspective to help resolve a dispute over the article Welfare. In essence the argument is about the meaning of the word welfare. One school of thought is that Welfare nowadays mostly means "financial aid for the poor" and that the article about that topic should be simply Welfare. The other school of thought is that the word "welfare" has two meanings ("well-being" and "financial aid for the poor") and that the article welfare should be a disambiguation page explaining the two meanings and then link off to the many articles there are about "financial aid to the poor" such as Social security. One idea is to move the content now in welfare moved over to Welfare (financial aid).

If you have the time, please read the discussions here and record your thoughts here. Cheers--84.250.230.158 (talk) 19:21, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

slaves.
During the Musket wars the northern tribes in particular took very large numbers of slave-probably well into the thousands, though the victim were unable to record their suffering and many died. Slaves were often women and children as male slaves were too much of a threat. They had no social status at all unless they had a special skill such as weaving or singings. They were normally used to grow potatoes or other manual work. Sometimes slaves were eaten-often in a fit of revenge, sometimes for a trivial missdeed. Chiefs found that slave girls were useful as prostitutes to service the hundreds of ships that arrived in the Bay of Islands and Hokianga in particular.The slave girls were forced to hand over any payment to the chief. French captains wrote at length about this practice while the prudish Victorian British kept largely silent. LMS missionaries were appalled.It is alleged that chiefs had slaves forceably tattooed so they could be beheaded and the smoked heads sold to traders. After 1840 most of the surviving Maori slaves were released partly because of pressure from LMS and Catholic missionaries. Some of the slaves had received a sort of education based on the bible from missionaries and spread christianity to all parts of the North Island on their return to their turangawaiwai. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 10:59, 1 May 2013 (UTC)


 * None of which has any bearing on demographics of New Zealand. Please stop your disruptive editing and learn to collaborate. BlackCab (talk) 11:01, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

All of which is critical to the understanding of NZ demographics.Please stop your disruptive vandalism and learn to be positive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 21:27, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Having information on pre-European settlement would be great, but it has to relate to demographics. Going into details on what happened is not important. So saying that a certain number of Maori were slaves could and probably should be mentioned with a reliable source, but this is not the article for discussing the slave trade. That would be Slavery in New Zealand or a perhaps a short mention in Maori (people), History of New Zealand or some other more appropriate article. I see this as a weight issue as well as a reliable sourcing issue. AIR corn (talk) 03:07, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Problem with stats for under 18yr olds.
In the lead the figures given for under 18 year olds add up to a lot more than 100%. No source is given so it cannot be easily corrected. Anyone got any ideas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 22:02, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Pure-White?
What exactly does this mean? As far as I'm aware, the census doesn't ask you whether you're 'Pure-white' but whether you identify as New Zealand European/Pakeha--'Pure-White' sounds a bit too Ku Klux Klan for my liking. You can't really say that everyone who identifies as Pakeha is 'Pure-white' anyway, especially in the South Island given the large amount of interracial relationships that have always been practised there. I know many Pakeha who are certainly not 'Pure-White' (whatever that means), but would still identify as Pakeha/New Zealand European. Maori themselves identify as being Maori (and rightfully so) despite some European racial ancestry.

Is this some site-wide nonsense spouted by the apartheid-like language of certain identity politics? 130.216.235.16 (talk) 00:28, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Removed 'Pure-White' since it is not mentioned whatsoever in the source. 130.216.235.16 (talk) 01:23, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Population figures for early Maori suspect
Recent evaluation of Cook's estimate of early Maori population has revealed significant flaws. Cook's methodology was based on a system he developed in Tahiti whereby he estimated the coastal population and then, using a grid, transferred this to inland areas. Cook over estimated the Tahitian population by about 20%. In NZ Cook was faced with far worse weather and visibility preventing him closing on the coast resulting in several well known mapping errors. He miscalculated the width of the South Island. It is likely that his figure of 100,000 (suspiciously round to be taken too seriously) was at least 20% out and quite possibly far more.

We know little of death rates among early Maori but we do know that women had few children ( from examining adult female skeletons), life expectancy was very low ( early on in the colonizing period when the food supply was abundant the average life expectancy at Wairau Bar was about 14 years.) Considerable doubt has been placed on introduced disease/epidemics as a cause of widespread deaths. Studies have shown these outbreaks were local and short lived. In the north where there was much contact between Maori and Europeans, Maori seem to have become immune to disease early on as accounts show survival rates about the same as for Europeans. We know now that people in general good health, with plentiful supply of food and shelter can survive disease that might otherwise kill them.The North, which had a Maori population of about 35,000( by far the biggest concentration of Maori in NZ ) also has the best climate for food production and there is ample evidence that by 1825 was producing massive surpluses of food to sell to the numerous ships that called to buy provisions. The widespread and regular sexual inter action between sailors and Maori females would have produced numerous part Maori children all adding to increased immunity. There are no accounts of widespread epidemics in the North that only effected Maori. We do know that Maori took part in massive pitched battles using traditional weapons which produced many deaths, such as the battle near Te Awamutu about 1795, which is claimed to be the biggest single battle ever to take place in NZ. During the long Musket War period (1805 to 1843 about) over 500 battles took place. Some were observed at close quarters by missionaries (trying to stop the slaughter). Muskets were often used at the start of a battle to terrify the enemy then the two sides closed and attacked each other with range of traditional hand weapons. After victory it was common for defeated leaders to be tortured, killed and eaten, further adding to the deaths. Likewise missionaries in the Bay of Islands reported the routine butchering of captured slaves by the relatives of deceased victors. Many of the battles, such as those by Te Rauparaha generally took place far away from missionary eyes. 700 victims per year may or may not be accurate but is significant if the population was more like 70,000 to start with rather than 100,000. The mid 19th century census tells us the Maori population was about 55,000 but this was far from reliable as it was based mainly on estimates not actual counting and we still do not know if half cast Maori were counted or not. By 1850 it is likely that as much as 35% of the South Island Maori population was half cast. Given that until 1950 Maori routinely isolated themselves from European settlement it is highly likely many Maori were not counted, especially those such as Kingitanga who had strong anti European feelings. There is ample evidence that through the contact period Maori routinely killed female children at birth in large numbers(about 20% of all female babies) and this pattern of female infanticide is true up until the 1880s. Accounts from Maori claim that male children were favoured as potential warriors. This may have had some impact on population increase. In many cases slaves were forbidden to have children with other slaves. The last Maori slaves on the Chatham islands were not released until the mid 1860s. We do know that several complete iwi were wiped out during the Musket War period and most Maori had their food production systems interrupted by  warfare. Driven away from their fish and shellfish supplies and without access to their  garden crops life was very hard for iwi  pushed out of their home territory.

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