Talk:Demographics of Philadelphia

Beef
I split this article off from the Philadelphia main page. I'm new so please let me know if I overstepped my bounds or did something incorrectly. Thanks! Passdoubt | Talk 07:00, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

"Recent estimates predict that the city will experience growth slightly before or after 2010." <-- Is anyone going to bother to source this bilge? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.16.144 (talk) 17:22, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Language Map
I hate to be a thorn, but i am going to take issue with one part of your explanation on the language map. For West Philadelphia you state that the reason for the high percentages is because of Subsaharan Africans population in the area. While i don't discount the contributions of persons from that region of the world to the contributions of the stats, i would seriously doubt that they would make up primary reason or soul reason why the percentages are higher as opposed to other parts of the city. Instead i think the the high level in the area corresponds to the student bodies of the three universities located in the area, Penn, Drexel and Sciences. My reasons for this are several. First the area of which their is this rise in the percentage is roughly the boundary of the University City District, discounting the students that live in dorms, a majority of the housing stock in that are is more geared to student housing, and in particular grad housing. These bounds will also come what be similar to those in the children under 5 map, with the only major difference being the western edge, but even still rates in that area still show low rates for children under 5. Also both Drexel and Penn attack a high number of international students, many of which do not come from the English speaking world, as well as having high percentage of Asian/Pacific Islander, and in the case of Penn; Hispanic/Latino, groups in their students bodies, where even if you were to discount for those that re international, it would not be uncommon to find those that come from households that English is not the first language. Well theses are just my thought on the subject. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 07:47, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you're right. I changed it. Thanks for the help! Passdoubt | Talk 22:16, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Keystone Demographics Vandal
Apparently the vandal that i have labled the Keystone Demographics Vandal, now operating under the ip of User:72.81.113.25 (talk • contribs), has decided to hit this page with his made up Demographic projections. I have since removed them since the projections divison has not released any such numbers. Edits from similar ips to articles or sections of articles regarding the Demographics of areas in Pennsylvania, should be conidered suspect. For more information see, Talk:Pennsylvania. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 03:15, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

obvious problem since the article contradicts the main philadelphia article (main article says 40.0% white, dem. article says 45.0% white). which one is correct?

68.163.28.247 (talk) 01:53, 28 August 2013 (UTC)Another obvious problem is that the demographics add up to 111.25% Does anyone know how many hispanics are being counted as white? There should be a category called "Non-Hispanic Whites".

Race demographic contradiction
obvious problem since the article contradicts the main philadelphia article (main article says 40.0% white, dem. article says 45.0% white). which one is correct?
 * simple demographics are easily verified by checking census.gov. This article is correct. The main Philadelphia article is continually edited by people who feel that the statistics don't match their perceptions. Passdoubt | Talk 18:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe that the 45% figure referred to a combined white population that includes latino/hispanics who categorize themselves as white(racial self-identification). the 40% figure refers to non-hispanic whites(only one race listed).

There has been some dispute about the US Census Bureau's designation of people who put down two or more racial categories as a separate racial category. For example, individuals who listed black/white combinations averaged 12 to 14 years old. Probably the parents filled out that form item. In 2004, the census bureau went back to those folks with a follow-up survey, they were surprised to find that over 44% of the Black/white(Indian,Asian,etc)listed themselves as Black only, Conversely, Asian/White and American Indian/White designees listed themselves as white only to the tune of 60% to 80% respectively. The two or more races category is fluid to say the least. The Census Bureau includes more that one ancestry designation in its count: for instance, if a person list Italian ancestry as well as Irish ancestry, that person is included in both Italian and Irish population numbers. That would be the only accurate way to compare the 2000 Census racial tabulations with the 1990 Census racial tabulations.

Philly's white ethnic neighborhoods are much smaller than when I was a child. I think Pittsburgh must be the last big central city in America that has a predominantly white ethnic population. I would never have believed that Irish-Americans would no longer be the largest population group in Boston proper, or that Italian-Americans at 21% of South Philly's population would be outnumbered by Black Americans at 33%(at least) of South Philly's 2000 population.

Things have changed demographically for all sorts of reasons.

Rick C [undated]


 * Regarding this quote from Rick C's comment above:
 * "For example, individuals who listed black/white combinations averaged 12 to 14 years old. Probably the parents filled out that form item. In 2004, the census bureau went back to those folks with a follow-up survey, they were surprised to find that over 44% of the Black/white(Indian,Asian,etc)listed themselves as Black only, Conversely, Asian/White and American Indian/White designees listed themselves as white only to the tune of 60% to 80% respectively."
 * Having read, which is about growing up with mixed black and white ancestry in America (and even more specifically, in Philadelphia), I can guess as to why these self-descriptions would change as the people get older. There is a current flowing through society pushing (usually gently, but constantly) to pick one racial identity and forgo the other. Not everyone will continue to resist that current as the years go by. One can understand the choice to pick. It can get tiresome and lonely to resist; at least if you choose to pick, you can fully belong to one of the groups. Until the culture evolves enough to accept everybody equally, this current will continue to flow.  — Lumbercutter 21:23, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

population change
is there anyone who knows the reason why population declined from 1930 to 1940, and grew from 1940 to 1950, and then declined again since 1950? Jackzhp 13:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well here are my thoughts. I would double check on the 30-40 numbers as that dies seem a bit strange. If it does hold the only rational i can think of is effect from the Depression in the 30's. I am not sure to what effect the Depression was to Philadelphia, but it would show that i would say a significant number left the city to seek work elsewhere. As for the 40-50's that would attributed to wartime expansion. During the Second World War, Philadelphia served as one of the major industrial centers, especially in shipbuilding. It also served as a major logistics center for the military, was home ans is home to several supply agencies and units. Since the 50's and continuing today, Philadelphia, like many major American cities, has suffered from "White flight", or basically the Upper and middle class exodus, as it not so much strictly a white only thing anymore, from the cities to the suburbs. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 01:49, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that Boothy443 hit the nail on the head above. During 1930s, lack of industrial jobs due to depression; during 1940s, boom in industrial jobs due first to WWII war matériel effort and then to post-WWII continued economic boom; since 1950, rust-belt deindustrialization and exurbanization, which are correlated to white flight (nature of correlation is multifactorial and complex). — Lumbercutter 21:32, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

What if we renamed this part something like "Population History" and expanded it to include a description of the entire history of population change? For example, the huge jump in 1860 due to the act of consolidation, steady growth until the great depression, further growth in WWII, decline in the second half of the 20th century due to white flight, and future predicted growth? If I see agreement, or no objections in a few days, I'll be happy to take the initiative on this. Your thoughts?--Cms479 19:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. Regarding the population change after WWII, we should state that its reasons are complex. The term "white flight" can oversimplify it by connoting the oversimplistic idea that "populations exurbanized because of racism." But if racism were the only factor, exurbanization would not be a post-WWII phenomenon at all. (Racism always existed in large amounts.) It also reflects the 20th-century technological revolution in material culture that allowed population, industry, and commerce to spread out across the landscape. — Lumbercutter 19:57, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Alright, I made the changes. I disagree white flight implies that racism was the only motivation for population shift (see the white flight wiki page), but I have tried to word it in such a way that this is clear.--Cms479 16:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Working papers
AFAIK you don't cite working papers but it can be used as a hint towards other info. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:08, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Amsterdam, Daniel. "Immigration to the City of Philadelphia: An Economic and Historical Overview." (Archive) Philadelphia Migration Project, University of Pennsylvania. December 2007.

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Uzbek and Central Asian population
I feel like this needs to be added somewhere

There has been an extreme and significant influx of Uzbek, Georgian, and other central asian groups (majority muslim) in Northeast Philadelphia. They are gentrifying parts to almost seem like an eastern europe/central asian version of a "china town"

Many of the Irish and ethnic Russians have left the area

Russian is the defacto language in the area still, as most of these ethnic groups speak Russian 98.111.142.165 (talk) 17:12, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

The Northeast has a population of 500k, if I'm not mistaken, and they seem to be a majority (2024) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.111.142.165 (talk) 17:14, 2 March 2024 (UTC)