Talk:Demographics of the State of Palestine/Archive 1

I think there's a problem
I think there's a problem with the Jewish population of the West Bank. How is it possible that Jews make up 17% of the 2,611,904 inhabitans of the WB, when there are only 267,163 Israeli citizens there, and that "most (if not all) of the Jews in the Palestinian territories are Israeli citizens" ? 267,000/2,611,000 is more like 10 or 11%, isn't it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.247.85.103 (talk) 17:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

See Talk:Demographics of the West Bank. Tazmaniacs 19:04, 13 May 2006 (UTC) A recent article in the Washington Post entitled "'Doomsday' falshoods" suggests that based upon critical statistical analysis, the populations of both Gaza and the West Bank have been grossly overstated by the Palestinian Authority. Last year, an American-Israeli research team using statistical methods calculated the 2004 Arab population in the West Bank and Gaza at 2.5 million (1.4 million in the West Bank and 1.1 million in Gaza) instead of the 3.8 million forecast reported as fact by the Palestine Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS).


 * That report as little or no support from professional demographers. See . --Zerotalk 13:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The link does not work. From what I understood, the report was initially violently attacked, but after a while many of its conclusions became mainstream and some adopted even by the Palestinian Statistic Office. 85.250.3.197 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment was added at 06:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC).

Actually the study that was undertaken above was done by professional demographers. The plain fact is that there has been no legitimate census of the population for quite a while and it is politically expedient for the Palestinians to claim large population statistics when in fact, their population is probably stagnating due to immigration.


 * "Immigration" or "emigration"? СЛУЖБА (talk) 03:00, 25 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty confused by the absence of objective data. I read in Ha'aretz that the week the Gaza pullout was announced, 'Arabs' became a majority in the land controlled by Israel (and I understand that this was a major factor in Sharon's decision).  The demogaphic dimension of the great Israel-Palestine question has gone largely unreported in mainstream western media, but is clearly a very prominent dimension of the conflict.  The 'revisionist' report cited as reference [6] in the article is clearly far from neutral.  On a purely 'anecdotal' lvel, I can't square it, for example, with stories from Jewish friends who live in North London, that in the last few years there has been a major influx of Israeli Jews (pushing up house prices in the North London Jewish enclaves way faster than the average increase in London as a whole).  Why doesn't the UN organize a scientific census of the 'territories', since accurate figures would clearly remove some of the already extreme tensions in the area between the River and the Sea?

Sharkasians?
Who are the Sharkasians? Are they Armenian, Arab, Kurdish or other? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.23.55 (talk) 21:30, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Circassians, I guess. СЛУЖБА (talk) 03:48, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Historical demographics
To put these data in context, it would be useful to have some historical figures, to see the long-term trends. How many people were there in 1967, for instance? A graph of population over time would be ideal. --Wally Tharg (talk) 08:59, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The Palestinian territories were not included in the OECD/World Bank population table 1970-2008 used elsewhere. Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) is a neutral reference also used by the World Bank in other publications. For the annual comparison one single reference has benefits. Therefore, I included both the U.S. Census Bureau population 1970-2010 and PCBS 2006 and 2009. These are mid year values. The data from these two references are close to one another which you can confirm from the sources. Older historical data is available in the same reference. Watti Renew (talk) 16:48, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

fertility rate
there are 2 sections with varying information —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.71.103.2 (talk) 13:27, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
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Move discussion in progress
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Christians in the Gaza Strip.
"Gaza Strip:

Christian 14.2%"

Are they still there? 95.27.82.197 (talk) 02:12, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

I assume many have fled both Muslim and Christian however if you look at Israel and Palestinian conflicts you will see often the Christians and Muslims work together as Arabs culturally against Israelis, so I am not sure that there would be much cause to leave unless their help to the Arab-Palestinians and Arab-Israelis cause was ignored and they were persecuted. That said I am not so sure if I think that figure would be accurate, is it not the West Bank with the large numbers of Christians? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.69.176.102 (talk) 06:24, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Merge to Demographics of the State of Palestine
The Palestinian Authority (often referred as oPt or Palestinian territories) has been long renamed to State of Palestine in most UN institutions and at the International Standards ISO system back in 2013 (see UN Data & ISO:3166); Palestinian Administration in Ramallah under President Abbas also refers to itself as State of Palestine. Furthermore, Palestine is now a disambiguation page, so "Demographic history of Palestine" anyway needs to be renamed to either "Demographic history of Palestine (region)" or "Demographic history of the State of Palestine", though considering it to be 56k and Demographics of the Palestinian territories at 29kb size, we better get a comprehensive single article. Herewith propose to merge:
 * Demographics of the Palestinian territories & Demographic history of Palestine → Demographics of the State of Palestine

Recommend a merge in line with similar procedures on this topic: Renaming "List of cities controlled by the State of Palestine", renaming "Outline of the State of Palestine", renaming "Economy of the State of Palestine".GreyShark (dibra) 19:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * as relevant participants of previous discussions on this topic.GreyShark (dibra) 19:27, 18 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Suggest to split this in to two discussions: I support the renaming of the Demographics of the Palestinian territories as proposed, but oppose the merging with Demographic history of Palestine. The Demographic history of Palestine article refers to the whole Palestine (region), which includes modern Israel. It is a highly notable topic in its own right, as many scholars have analyzed the demographic history of what became Mandatory Palestine, in the context of its 1948 partition. Oncenawhile (talk) 22:14, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment Tricky one this - and I appreciate that this was not the most constructive comment. Both terms, "Palestinian Territories" and "State of Palestine" are subjectively judged in regard to area etc. coverage and, as such, both titles have weaknesses.
 * Its a longer title by perhaps we could use something like Demographics of the State of Palestine according to Green Line borders might work. If we are to make assumptions on the State of Palestine then I think we should declare our thinking. ::GregKaye 06:19, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It seems your idea violates WP:CRYSTALBALL, because you suggest State of Palestine is to expand to a specific border which is currently irrelevant (SOP operates in areas A and B of West Bank only); we can simply define demographic statistics in areas A+B of WB (SOP sovereign areas) and in area C (disputed/occupied by Israel), East Jerusalem (disputed/annexed by Israel) and Gaza Strip (disputed/occupied by Hamas) - within the "Demographics of the State of Palestine" article; a similar act has already been done in List of mosques in the State of Palestine. We typically do not define the exact border of countries with territorial disputes within article titles - see cases of Russia, Ukraine, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Morocco, Sahrawi Republic, etc.GreyShark (dibra) 06:41, 19 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment - asking also users user:BDD and user:Al Ameer son to join (participated in Islam in Israel and Palestine split discussion).GreyShark (dibra) 06:48, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree in principle that these should be merged, but let's keep it simple and call the new article Demographics of Palestine. The lede can define the scope more precisely. --BDD (talk) 13:15, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't mind to make it Palestine for now, but to merge is the best.GreyShark (dibra) 13:32, 6 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Oppose makes no sense at all. It's like merging the demographics of the Roman Empire with Italy. Distinguish between the State and the Region.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:46, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * By the way, the article about cities in the Palestinian Territories should be renamed. The consensus was based on a flase fact with no sources that the PNA transformed into the SoP while it was a rename that doesn't bother any source, including Palestinian officials and media, to still use the term PA. The authority to define which locality is a city and which locality is not belongs to the Palestinian Legislative Council (currently the Fatah Cabinet) and not to the Palestinian National Council.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:16, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Also mr, I like how your consensuses always lack a real discussion and as soon as you get two people agreeing with you (while there might be more than twenty who have an opinion on that in this wiki) you close the discussion (or anyone else) close the discussion. In the list of the cities, there was a third offer which got the support of three people who gave arguments while you opposed with your argument and another user gave a really wierd argument (saying the name should represent Palestinian rights??). Needless to say, one of the supporters of the third rename offer was one of the original supporters of your old offer, therefore, according to third discussion, there is more support, based on source facts to rename it to what I offered, than the current name which still has the support of only two editors including the proposer and the reason for this consensus was a false fact. Maybe I should revive the third offer, to rename it to "Cities in the Palestinian Territories".--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:28, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * It is great that you admire my work.GreyShark (dibra) 12:21, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah... Happy israel independence day!--Bolter21 (talk to me) 13:15, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Happy Nakba day.GreyShark (dibra) 19:36, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Happy?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 21:03, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

I oppose too. It's anachronistic. We're a greco-roman civillization and palestine is the greco-roman name for the region. That's why syria isn't called assyria and germany isn't called duetschland. Well, in english.--Monochrome _ Monitor  02:29, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Support renaming this article to Demographics of Palestine the lack of recognition, finalization of Israel`s borders hasn`t impeded us from have an article on Israel`s demographics. Let`s not continue to back the minority in their ideologically inspired denial of Palestine just as we don't for Israel. Sepsis II (talk) 00:07, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
 * "Ideological"? is there an ideology for opposing unsourced opinions and violation of WP:TRUTH?. Anyways, there's an article for the demographic history of a region and an article about the demographic history of a state, Just like there is with many other states. The region of Palestine includes both modern Israel and the State of Palestine and the last section of article should refer to the demographics "between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean" today with respect to each entity/territory's own demograhpics.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 05:30, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose. This is one of an endless series of attempts by Greyshark to eliminate the idea that Palestine is the default term for this country. He does this by constantly proposing to split articles with 'Palestine' into periodizations that destroy the concept of continuity, so Palestine becomes a subset of Syria, or a part of a region. This is an ideological project, it has no grounding in standard historical source usage. This specific example is, to be polite, ridiculous. The demographic history of Palestine (5,000 years) can't be subsumed under or merged into a State of Palestine that refers to recent decades. If anything the obverse.Nishidani (talk) 11:57, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

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Back to Front
The Palestinian Territories, or more correctly the Occupied Palestinian Territories, of the suggested article title 'Demographics of the Palestinian territories' are a subset of the Palestine to which the current article 'Demographic history of Palestine' refers. Occupied Palestinian Territories OPT comprise only some 22 % of historical Palestine. Thus, the merger - if at all necessary - should be the merger of 'Demographics of the Palestinian territories', or better 'Demographics of the OPT' into the article 'Demographic history of Palestine'. Lachmann888 (talk) 13:02, 20 April 2016 (UTC)lachmann888


 * Correctly, it is the Disputed Palestininan Territories. Dori1951 (talk) 13:13, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

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Religion
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there are 46,850 Palestinian Christians in the combined territories according to the Palestinian Bureau of Statistic (census of 2017), they couldn't possibly make up 2.5% of the population in the West Bank (2,881,687 according to the same census). At best, if all Christians live in the West Bank (and we do know that some live in Gaza), they would account for 1.6% of the local population. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.178.29.90 (talk) 00:00, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2019
East Jerusalem is described as "administered" by Jordan, but "occupied" by Israel in a war. However, both the Jordanian and Israeli administrations began with military conquests, and neither were widely recognized internationally, so why are different verbs used? This is prejudicial, against NPV. The text should read "East Jerusalem was occupied by Jordan from 1948 to 1967, and has been occupied by Israel since 1967". If it is important to mention that the occupations began with war, then both the 1948 and 1967 wars should be mentioned. Israelgale (talk) 18:29, 8 December 2019 (UTC) Israelgale (talk) 18:29, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:45, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Is this real or spam
Someone has divided this into West Bank and Gaza...but it all one entity..180.150.112.168 (talk) 14:37, 14 June 2020 (UTC)