Talk:Dennis Miller/Archive 1

Not a Libertarian
After listening to some interviews with Dennis Miller, it has become clear to me that Miller fails to understand Libertarianism beyond the most basic level. His stance on security, war and especially surveillance are contrary to basic American freedoms. For example, Miller seems to feel that warrantless wiretapping is just fine, so long as those being spied upon don't find out about it. Miller is certainly not the first person with such views to claim to be a Libertarian, but I submit that such views are so fundamentally contrary to libertarian philosophy that to espouse them makes one, in no uncertain terms, NOT a Libertarian. It has become popular for statist fear-mongers to claim a Libertarian slant (presumably to disguise their real objective: increasing government power). While this is no doubt an established trend, I do not believe Miller's views are sufficiently inline with key aspects of Libertarianism to justify an unqualified reference to Miller as a Libertarian. I therefore propose to amend the article to point out that, while Miller claims to be a Libertarian, his views in many ways diverge from the mainstream of Libertarian political thought. Marshaul (talk) 23:34, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Miller's backing of wars we have is not libertarian. I agree with the poster above that Miller fails on libertarianism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.129.55.154 (talk) 08:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

As a Conservative, I would ask: so would you rather say Dennis Miller is a Conservative? Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 20:05, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

had to make some MORE changes
Eliminated annoying and redundant headers. Hopefully, most of us are in no longer in junior high and can figure out what a paragraph means without its content being bulleted. If I want my reading to bulleted, I'll grab a work memo or corporate presentation.

Removed character assassination, extraneous details ("He's a registered Republican", uh, who cares?) and undisguised POV, such as the nitwit comments by a former and obviously disgruntled employee.

I saw Dennis a couple of months ago so I believe I can speak to his views, having heard them from twenty-five feet away, better than people who haven't seen him (as evidenced by many of the remarks that fairness and accuracy demanded to be removed).

PainMan 10:39, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Had to make some changes...
My remarks are preceeded by "--", the corrected or excised reversions are below. I may have forgotten to note some of my points but it shouldn't be hard for anyone moderately literate to differentiate...

This is supposed to be a bio, not a platform for attacking Dennis Miller because he dares to voice opinions that annoy the Left-Liberal media. Far too many items were either POV or simply hatchet jobs.

Below is a list of changes made and why...

--The opinion of one comedian about another isn't relevant to a bio.

In Live From New York, Norm Macdonald said that Miller and Chevy Chase were the only truly good Weekend Update anchors.

--The term "rant" is a POV term and should be in quotes; I changed it to monologue, an impartial and more accurate term

--I changed this

Through most of the shows run, Miller's opinions were left-leaning,

to this:

Through most of the shows run, Miller's opinions were left-leaning, but he never merely regurgitated talking points for either party or ideology

--This was changed by me...

He became more partisan, and turned to political commentary.

--I removed this because, imo it is straight POV and belongs on the discussion page; you can find any fan of anyone, comedian, author, musician, who will argue that this or that "new" opinion is "puzzling." It simply, imo, doesn't belong in a bio.

Miller's new-found conservatism puzzled many of his former fans, as it seemed to be a complete 180-degree turn from his earlier positions on a number of issues. Miller's changed views were not limited to foreign policy, as he began bashing environmentalists, civil rights leaders, and the ACLU in his television appearances.

--This comment is straight character assassination, presented without rebuttal or refutation and has no place in bio article and belongs on the Discussion page...

Miller's former head writer from his pre-HBO syndicated show, Barry Crimmins, felt the decision by Miller was an insincere attempt to establish a new career as a conservative commentator, in the style of Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh. Writing in the Boston Phoenix, Crimmins said that Miller "has carved a place for himself on the Rushmore of wrong-headedness, and there he will stay for years to come, a glowering, reactionary oaf for the ages. He’s ready for his close-up, Mr. Murdoch."

--Yet again, straight POV, a thinly disguised attack, which demanded removal by anyone pretending to impartiality...

Though Miller had criticized John McCain for endorsing 'someone as insipid as George Bush" on Dennis Miller Live in 2000, Miller now stated that his show would not feature any criticism of the president. "I take care of my friends," Miller stated. Groups such as Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting and Media Matters (FAIR) criticized CNBC for airing what they believed to be a blatantly biased program.

--What else would an opinion show be but a platform for the hosts opinions? Which are only biases if we disagree with them!--

--ONCE AGAIN, this belongs on discussion page. Frankly, the number of people who care what Janeane Garofolo says could fit into a phone booth. Dennis Miller sold out four straight shows at the MGM Grand in Vegas this July. People aren't going to pay $100 a ticket to listen to Garofolo!

Miller's change of world view has also drawn flack from his stand-up peers, such as from Janeane Garofolo (who many perceive as continuing to champion many of the same views that Miller has abandoned) and from comedian David Cross (who likened him to a Republican 'court jester' on his comedy CD Shut Up You Fucking Baby!).

'''Though it should be painfully obvious, the word "fucking" is not appropriate in an encyclopedia article, esp one which younger kids might access. It costs nothing to add in some asterisks.'''
 * I suggest you take a look at WP:NOT Kurt Weber 23:45, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Just because we have the power to do a thing does mean we should do that thing. The word "fucking" added nothing to the article. (It was, in fact, a shameless plug for the unknown David Cross who clearly hopes to get his 'big break' by the tride and true method of slandering conservatives and thereby ingratiating himself with the Left-Lib Hollywood bosses in my former home-state of the People's Republic of California. While some may see value in exposing kids to gratituous swearing every chance they get, there is no value in an encyclopedia used to shill for would-be celebrities.) If a curse world is relevant I have no problem with it. Besides, I thought we were supposed to be prepared to be "edited mercilessly." Perhaps this only applies to those of us on the Right. A double standard for conservatives, what a shocker!!! This should be a forum for spreading knowledge, not yet another forum for DNC talking points. PainMan 10:58, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

--More POV

His critics were quick to point out that Miller is a registered Republican "who" are these "critics" belongs on discussion page it makes being a Republican sound like a skin disease or something, I note that Gloria Steinhem isn't labeled as a Democrat.

--More POV/Discussion page attacks:

Shortly after his cancellation, Miller appeared on Comedy Central's The Daily Show and attempted to make the case that he wasn't a conservative ideologue. "I'm only conservative on the war," Miller said.

--This irrelevant and would not be mentioned if he'd taken a ride on AF-1 when Clinton was in office

...Miller has earned a ride on Air Force One and a top spot on the GOP's "celebrity" A-list.

--This statement is erroneous. Miller flatly contradicted it when I saw his show in July.

It the past, however, Miller held libertarian-type views on topics such as drug legalization and same sex marriage.

--this is simply inaccurate:

He claims the main reason is because liberal activists were too quick to cast disparaging labels on on people they disagreed with such as Rudy Giuliani and John Ashcroft.

--This is both redundant and tendentious:

espousing a self-described libertarian view point

--This is flat-out ridiculous. I doubt the reverter would note Tina Fey's party affiliation.

He is a registered Republican

--This is vague and unsourced...and exactly who are "many" anyway?

Many in the GOP even called for him to run for U.S. Senator from California against incumbent junior Senator Barbara Boxer

--I've heard the man's views in person and remember his days on SNL with relish. He shot his arrows at both sides of the divide--as he still continues to do. Winston Churchill once said, "If a man is not a Liberal by age 20, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by age 50, he has no head." Miller is 51.

PainMan 04:25, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Perot
Wasn't Miller a big supporter of Perot in '92? Certainly in my mind that seemed to fit in with his eventual conservatiism. Not to mention being pretty far from liberal already. keith 05:53, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, I vaguely remember that too.  dbtfz talk 03:17, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Quote section
I was happy to see that someone added a quotes section to the article. I was thinking about doing so myself. Now, I don't want to get off on a rant here, but I would like to make sure that this section doesn't become a dumping ground for Dennis Miller quotes. That's what Wikiquote is for (and note, BTW, that the Dennis Miller page on Wikiquote could use some attention). I think we should try to keep the quotes in the quote section of this article to a handful (say, 3-5) verifiable quotes that are representative of Miller's worldview and comedic style. Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. :-)  dbtfz talk 19:47, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Major revision to Dennis Miller
Hi. I just noticed that a few days ago you totally gutted the Dennis Miller article without any discussion on the talk page. I reverted it back to its state just prior to your edit. I believe changes in articles of that magnitude are deserving of a consensus, hopefully established through a discussion on the talk page which I would more than happily participate in. Lawyer2b 04:38, 9 September 2006 (UTC) (I originally posted this message on User talk:PainMan.
 * When my reversion of the Miller bio was gutted no one bothered to consult me about it. Therefore I feel no reason to consult anyone else about reverting to the state it was in after my rewrite.

I will be reverting it.

PainMan 04:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC) (this was User:PainMan's response on my talk page.
 * Listen, I'm not going to get into an edit war and, while I didn't revert your previous edit, I'm sorry whatever edit you're talking about was reverted without someone consulting you. Your attitude, however, is not helpful to editing through consensus and fostering cooperation and seems, quite frankly, a little childish.  I don't think Wikipedia is a place where people can/should justify violating policy "just because" others did.  I won't revert your edit again right now, in hopes that you are simply upset and that you will "simmer down" and out of the spirit of community revert it yourself and discuss the major changes you want to make to the article and why. Lawyer2b 04:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you are unaware of the policy against personal attacks? I suggest that you acquaint yourself with it. It would be unfortunate if I had to make a complaint about your insults. So keep attacks like "childish" to yourself. Or explain how they "foster consensus" or other PC.

The policy about personal attacks isn't the only one you should make yourself familiar with. The guiding principle is "merciless editing" and not weasely PC dreck like "consensus". (Just to make it clear, my scorn is for the concept of political correctness and not your bad self.)

Finally, where do you get off telling me to "simmer" down? I don't remember any vote that appointed you wiki-nanny?

PainMan 05:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I am well aware of WP:NPA and while saying your attitude "seems childish" was not meant as a personal attack and I doubt it would be classifed as one under WP:NPA, I'm sorry if it offended you. I meant the comment to serve as a mirror to show how, at least to me, how your justification of editing without consensus appeared.  I am at a loss to understand what you mean by "merciless editing" vs. "consensus".  Regarding "simmer down", I thought you might have been upset based on your reply on my talk page.  If not, I was mistaken.  I'd like to switch the subject to the content of the article since it appeared you thought it needed a "major rewrite". Lawyer2b 05:34, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree this is not on point for this discussion page. Look to your own for my response.

PainMan 05:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Merge
Either Merge Dennis Miller Live or change this to have a link; content is partially duplicated between the two pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamoche (talk • contribs)


 * I think Dennis Miller Live, being an important, Emmy-winning show, deserves its own article, so I oppose the merge. However, I wouldn't oppose bringing more of the content of that article into this one.  I don't think duplication of content in different articles hurts anything.  Wikipedia is not paper, thank goodness.  :)   dbtfz talk 05:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * There can be a problem when changes in one place aren't reflected in the other, though. Jamoche 04:30, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I recommend not merging the articles. One is a biography (Dennis Miller) and the other is about a notable television show.  Different sorts of entities, with correspondingly different category sets; don't merge them, my two cents. Dugwiki 21:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I also recommend not merging the articles per the above comments. I'll remove the tags, as this conversation has been going on for about 6 months. Radagast83 03:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

International experiences?
Tonight I downloaded some DVD with a show by Dennis Miller from Usenet. I had never seen the man before.

To me he came across as an ignorant redneck. Sorry for the fans.

But reading the "facts" on this page, I could not find any evidence to thwart my suspicions that the man has never travelled beyond the borders of the "good ole" US of A. I would like to see someone adding some information about where the man gets his alledged "knowledge" about the rest of the world from.

.............

And does your inability to 'find the evidence' have more to do with Miller or yourself? All I see displayed in your post is your arrogance in assuming that anyone who doesn't see it your way is untraveled and uneducated. Arrogance being a sort of intellectual Nutrasweet-- an intelligence substitute.

Phil

Sean7phil 14:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

67.40.35.63 13:56, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Boy, you sure have figured him out. I don't know what he's going to do now. Lawyer2b 22:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm quite sure he gets his hatred for the French from somewhere? And his love for killing foreign people must also stem from some earlier experience??
 * Again, you're at the top of your game, Clouseau! You scored a two-fer.  His wife cheated on him with a Frenchman...and he killed him! Lawyer2b 22:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Now I am aware of the fact that it appears to be "popular" in the US to display disdain about anyone that does not belong to your own "clan". But that can hardly be called "humor". Especially if you clearly demonstrate willful ignorance about the people you make your "joke" about...
 * Yes, we Americans are such boors, aren't we? You've got us figured out too! You're just amay-za-za-zing!  Lawyer2b 22:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

This guy cannot be classified as a "comedian", until he has done shows in other parts of the world (like for example Paris, Amsterdam and London) too, in my opinion. He remains a shortsighted bastard otherwise.
 * Why of course! How silly of us to think the rest of world consists of anything other than.... Europe! Lawyer2b 22:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

But as I said, I would like to see any information about the man's travels and experience in international politics...
 * Don't worry, I'll get right on that after I'm done listening to my vintage Reagan quips. Lawyer2b 22:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Comedy Central's list of the 100 Greatest Stand-ups of All Time
I included a reference to his placement on Comedy Central's list of the 100 Greatest Stand-ups of All Time. --Ccoolidge 15:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't matter how many times I have to do it...
Left-Libs had better give up. It doesn't matter how many times I have to do it, I will correct the Leftist reverts about Dennis. So, save yourselves the trouble and forget about trying to substitute propaganda/POV for facts. I can't be beaten and I can't be outlasted. I'm not going to allow a list of DNC talking points to take the place of a "fair and balanced" article on Miller. PainMan 20:38, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Apparently some didn't get the humor intended in the above statement. Some people take things too literally. I would hope that we can have fun, not take the ideological struggle so seriously all the time. I'm watching Revenge of the Sith and Anakin's about to jump off the Dark Side's cliff. Got to watch. I just don't get tired of this flick. Also, as I'm watching this, my editing may not be so good. Hell, with my advancing dyslexia, I can't seem to edit stuff the way I used to! PainMan 01:59, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I am definitely not a "left-lib" but i did take out one sentence about FAIR in the last paragraph because it doesn't really seem like it's relevant for this article. I also took out the part about "regurgitating talking points" as that was clearly POV. RonMexico 17:30, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * woops, i misread the regurgitating line, when i first read it i thought it was saying that Miller DOES just regurgitate a party line. i put it back in.  i apologize for that.  RonMexico 19:10, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for correcting your mistake. Honesty's an extremely rare commodity on the ol' wikipedia. Nay-the-less, I'll be reposting my article. As I said above, no matter how many times I have to do it, I will keep at it.

The information about ratings numbers is pedantic detail unneccessary and irrelevant. The fact is CNBC's ratings, along with all the Leftist cable channels, Clinton News Network, MessNBC, etc., are falling further and further beyond Fox. PainMan 12:25, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree the CNBC show audience stats were misleading — not many people watch any CNBC show, and in general cable ratings involve low numbers. I've removed it just now.


 * However, you'll not be reposting your article if you mean that literally. If you look at the history you'll see that I made a ton of improvements to it a couple of days ago, most of them having zilch to do with politics.  I added more on his background, how he was found for SNL and what he did there, his film roles  (how did these get missed?), clarified the Madden replacement on MNF, added NetZero, etc.  What objection do you have to any of this?    Wasted Time R 14:52, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I have NO objections to including facts. I only object to attempts to slant it or inaccuracies about Miller's positions. I saw him in August so I heard his positions from 25 feet away! I was too braod in my statement. Besides, I thought one of the main ideas behind wikipedia is "merciless editing." So, lets edit away! After all, if we only talk to those of like mind we're not going to learn much. Besides, labels are misleading. Few people adhere completely to the stereotypes of either ideology. Tho' a strong conservative, I oppose the war on drugs, support gay rights (tho' I oppose gay "marriage"). I support intelligent, measured evironmental protections which include economic concerns. Besides, you're polite and write well. PainMan 01:56, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Note also that I changed the "Nine dwarves" date from 2000 to 2004. The 2000 Dems campaign was just between sitting Veep Gore and outside challenger Bill Bradley; the 2004 primary race was wide open and had at various points 9, 10, even 11 announced candidates.  I think you added the Nine dwarves bit originally but you must have misheard the year it was for.  Wasted Time R 14:57, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Do you have any rationale that is not anecdotal? Manys 03:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I erred when I posted 2000. I meant 2004. And that was the year Miller mentioned in his routine back in August. I haven't examined the article yet. That's next. PainMan 01:56, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I took out the "Nine dwarves" bit altogether. What "some" call the nine Dems running for office in 2004, has no relevance to Dennis Miller's wiki entry. [17:55, 30 December 2005 24.104.65.19]


 * It would be relevant if that's the name for them that Miller used when he explained the motivation behind his party switch, but it's not clear from PainMan's original account whether that's the case or not.   Wasted Time R 03:56, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Family Guy and The Simpsons?
I don't think oft-satirical cartoons should be used to describe anyones comedic style. I recall someone saying on this talk page that other comedians' views do not belong in a bio, and these are basically other comedians' views of Dennis Miller's act. I think these quotes should be removed as they are both misleading and POV to some degree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.188.116.74 (talk • contribs)
 * While I happen to agree with their characterization (and I am a Dennis Miller fan) this may be a bit of original research. Any proposals on what to do with them?  Lawyer2b 19:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I took off the Family Guy citation, and think the Simpsons is of marginal value at best. Since this seems like 3 votes for removal, it's coming down as well. Beatdown 12:33, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * For some reason, there are people on Wikipedia who see fit to slide in as many references to The Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, etc. on as many articles as possible. I see no problem with removing many of these references. --Fightingirish 15:14, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Religion
I removed the Christian people tag because he siad he wasn't a Christian (but does believe in god) on Penn Jillette's radio show.

a link to the show: http://www.pennfans.net/view/Audio_Archive/PennRadio/Penn.Jillette.Radio.Show.2006.09.22/


 * That's in direct contradiction to something he said on one of his HBO shows: "I consider myself to be a Christian." Wahkeenah 09:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I originally added the cat based on that special but he may have changed his views since then. That special was in 1994. MrBlondNYC 03:13, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I have heard him several times on the radio show -- as recently as this week -- say "I am not a born-again Christian," and "I believe in God." (You can hear this on today's archive at his site.)  He specifically stated today that he does not believe the universe was caused by a big explosion, and that nature was obviously the work of someone who was "showing off," a belief which he defended up by citing the diversity, complexity and wonder of nature.  He often states his admiration of Christians.  In the interest of keeping things sane on this page (and the article) I would like to suggest that, when appropriate, we provide direct quotes by Dennis on this page.  We can cite both the date of the radio broadcast, and the time it was said (for example, June 4 07, 0:08).  paul klenk talk 01:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Glossary of Terms
Does anyone feel a section such as this may be helpful? Dennis is so well read and knowledgable that a percentage of his lingo is destined to go over the average person's head (Too fan-boyish?). I personally find my enjoyment of his show is directly proportional to the percentage of terms and references which I understand. I am not suggesting common terms such as 'sardonic'. If a person has the knowhow to make it to Wikipedia itself I am certain they can find the definition to a word. I am suggesting a section where people can find the meaning of terms or phrases such as "Let's light this candle" and "Touch Indians".Flwright 20:57, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Fired?
I removed this: "He was recently fired from a right-wing lecture circuit this summer (2007) for Giuliani’s campaign, due to overwhelming negative feedback from audiences." I have not seen any sources or evidence in that regard. If someone can verify this, at least that they have heard it, feel free to replace it. --Doctorcherokee (talk) 05:05, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Blatant POV
Looking over PainMan's various edits it seems clear that quite a lot of verifiable, sourced material about Miller has been removed in order to promote PainMan's conservative agenda. First of all, regarding Miller's "sold-out runs." Here's an actual, you know, fact- Miller's the only comic on the Vegas strip whose ticket prices have FALLEN in the last ten years. in 2007, Miller's ticket prices were 39.95 for all seats- lower than Bill Maher's, Jon Lovitz's and Craig Ferguson's top seats, Carrot Top's (!) tickets, and, most interestingly, Rita Rudner's tickets. The same Rudner who used to be Miller's opening act. Eliminating his CNBC ratings is blatant POV. His "star hasn't fallen?" He's just been canceled AGAIN. I agree that it is not up to WP editors to do original research or make judgments of a man based on his political leanings- it is also absolutely against WP spirit and rules to eliminate factual information simply because you believe that the facts can somehow be liberally biased. I suggest PainMan look over WP:OWN for clarity. 206.218.218.57 (talk) 16:18, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Roman Catholic?
I removed the Roman Catholic category tag from the article, since I can't find a source to support this categorization. dbtfz talk 03:16, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

From The Dennis Miller Radio Show, 2008-07-28, Ed O'Neill interview: O'Neill: I know you're from Pittsburg. Miller: Yeah. O'Neill: And, what, you're an Irish Catholic boy, right? Miller: Yeah.... (muted)it's complicated. This only addresses historical, not current, classification. BillMcGonigle (talk) 22:04, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Gun control
I recall hearing him argue in favor of gun control in one of his routines. How does that square with the claim that he's a libertarian, even a neo-libertarian? marbeh raglaim (talk) 03:52, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Filmography
Doesn't he have a few films he was in? Bordello of Blood I think was one of them. O'Reilly always makes fun of him for it. 70.171.234.197 (talk) 19:25, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Lead section
Does the material about become conservative belong in the lead? Not sure if it rises to the level for inclusion in the lead, but will let others decide. Thanks, --Tom (talk) 21:25, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Influences
The infobox line re Miller's alleged influence on Colbert, Fey etc has been removed. No citations for these assertions have been given despite fact tagging in 2007. WP:BLP requires that acticles on or referring to individuals MUST be thoroughly and reliably sourced (see WP:RS). It is not enough to subjectively suggest influences based upon, say, mutual appreciation or perceived similarities of style or substance. Please do not replace this or similiar material unless it comes with a reference which satisfies the requirements. I also removed the line regarding similar comments made about Miller and his erstwhile SNL castmembers for the same reasons. Plutonium27 (talk) 07:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I think that the article Black and White (Dennis Miller) should be merged with this article, as that article only contains one piece of information not present in this article. However, if someone can find a few reliable citations and expand that article, then it could be a valid article - but from a quick look, I can't find much information - certainly not enough to make an article in its own right. What do others think? --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 20:27, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Miller as a failure
I removed a large swarth of unsourced material about what a failure Miller has been over his carreer. Hopefully this is covered in a NPOV with citations in the article. --Tom (talk) 17:42, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Lede has...Miller has become known for his far right-wing political opinions...
Should this be...conservative/right-wing/far right-wing/libertarian/or what? --Tom (talk) 21:17, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Spurious italics in article title
The page-header title appears in italics; apparently this is to do with the use of Infobox television, for one of his shows, which seems to do this automatically. Anyone know how to fix this? Smartiger (talk) 04:09, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed, after two separate bouts of head-scratching. Smartiger (talk) 04:27, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Leans Libertarian
I saw Miller last night (16 July 2005) and the MGM Grand in Vegas. He described himself as "more of a libertarian." And the material in his routine last night tends to support that. While, the Left-Liberal media would probably describe his position on abortion and gay marriage as "socially liberal", his views are really more in line with the libertarian stream of thought within Conservatism; i.e. "the leave people the hell alone who aren't bothering anyone else" stance. When heckled for announcing his unconcern with gay marriage, he quickly put the heckler in his place with an acidic retort, "I'll have to write both sides of this."

He indicated he really became disechanted with the Democrats watching the "Nine Dwarves", a media-applied nick-name to the Democrats competing for their party's nomination in the 2000 primary debates. Even in his SNL days, he was never the DNC mouth-piece that Tina Fey is. The line I most remember from those at the "Weekend Update" desk was, "Today, the last piece of Orson Welles died." Ouch.

He was absolutely hilarious; definitely worth the $80 a ticket to him. But the fact that he's playing a sold-out crowds at the MGM Grand (the most expensive and largest resort on the Strip) indicates his star hasn't fallen any. Even if he doesn't, for the moment, have a TV gig, he's still one of the top comedians. MSNBC was never really the place for him and he can hardly be blamed for that network's dismal ratings. He'd do much better on Fox; but a show on Fox is unlikely since their lineup is already filled with the highest-rated shows in cablenewsdom. PainMan 00:55, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

After watching most of his HBO shows, Miller wa always more of a libertarian than liberal. Also, it was CNBC he was on. Bedford 01:32, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

CNBC? My bad. But since the same twelve people make up the audience for both channels, it don't matter much. :o) But thanks for the correction.  Somebody's done a real, imo, hatchet job on Dennis with this new revert.  I'm going to make some small edits.

PainMan 03:13, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

I added a new quote on his libertarian leanings and a link to a recent article. On another note, what is postlibertarianism? I remember seeing that as a wikipedia entry, but that it got deleted. Thorburn 08:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Sad that politics have to enter into the main issue, which is that Miller simply isn't, and never was, particularly funny. Like most of the SNL players after the originals, he was a one-trick pony whose main claim to fame was pretending to be smarter than he was and constantly mangling the English language. That his views on war changed after Sept. 11th (see his interview with George Carlin on the military, pre-"911") simply demopnstrates his own personal cowardice. Ideals aren't ideals if they change when you become personally inconvenienced or frightened. -cneron

Miller does not support the Libertarian party, he supports the republican party. So he is a republican not a libertarian. 68.188.25.170 (talk) 03:46, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

This arcticle needs to be like all the rest about living people- semi-portected
Just because someone isn't very well known, or his page is mostly calm of edits, we need to be fair, and just like Obama's page, or George Bush's, we need to protect this page so that it wont have vadalism.140.198.45.71 (talk) 01:30, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * "Most" are not semi-protected. Do you have a specific complaint about edits to this article? --Onorem♠Dil 01:49, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Dennis Miller Video Game
What? No mention of the 3DO game "Dennis Miller: That’s News to Me"...78.171.205.216 (talk) 18:01, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Rewording of Lead's Opening Sentence
The opening sentence currently reads, "Dennis Miller (born November 3, 1953) is an American stand-up comedian, talk show host, political commentator, sports commentator, actor, television personality, radio personality, and outspoken conservative, but social liberal." What I find bothersome about this is that the sentence lists Miller's various occupations but then tacks on his (poorly punctuated) political views. Since his political views are described later in the lead, I would like to remove "and outspoken conservative, but social liberal" if there are a no objections in a few days. Primogen (talk) 00:58, 7 January 2013 (UTC)


 * No objections, so... done. Primogen (talk) 23:12, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

The Shift
Did Dennis Miller shift from the left to the right? If so, is that worth mentioning? What about the numerous items that are falsely attributed to him circulating the net? I frequently get Miller-type "rants" from friends via e-mail that were not actually written by him. --Feitclub 14:51, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)

Miller says it was when he became a father that he began his rightward shift, which apparently was greatly accelerated by the events of 9/11/2001. I think that the "rant" in question has been attributed to other comics as well, including (improbably) George Carlin. This is fairly old hat – the one supposedly by Lincoln about "You cannot build up the poor by tearing down the rich", etc., quoted by Lt. Gov. Steele at the recent Republican National Convention has been debunked as an authentic quote so many times by now it borders on the unreal, but that it is so accepted means the fact of its debunking now seems unreal in its own right!

Rlquall 16:42, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Dennis Miller never changed: He was always a blithering idiot. TheScotch (talk) 11:30, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


 * No, it is you. Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 02:54, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Remember who this guy is
He's a "funnyman". Why do we even care what his politics are? If he talks about it, tune him out. He isn't funny anymore, but it happens to most people his age. He's turning into the new Andy Rooney, that's all. Magmagoblin (talk) 04:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

He's a comedian by trade, but he's also a political commentator, and has been for some time. marbeh raglaim (talk) 02:26, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

He isn't funny, and his political commentary consists of: "We should shoot the Iraqis/Vietnamese/etc because [this part is missing]. Bush is stupid, but you should still vote for him, because he likes shooting them." Yeah I just came to say this after being forced to watch an hour of this guy's 'comedy' for work related reasons. 85.157.76.57 (talk) 09:22, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Views about abortion
I don't really understand who wrote this or thought it was funny...This was under "Political Views". The first sentence is OK, but then the rest of the paragraph is inappropriate. I will delete it.

While not at all shy about expressing his conservative opinions on topics such as taxes and foreign policy, Miller is quick to point out that he is still quite liberal on many social issues, including abortion and gay marriage. [23] Some of his critics wish abortion had been a legal option when Miller's was pregnant with him! Now that Miller has two children ofhis own, he is simultaneously trying to outdo Allen Aldo and Phil Donahue in being women's libbers, while remaining Mr. Macho. He refuses to engage in arguments rgarding obvious lack of logical consistency on the pro-life issue. Miller's response? "Hey, it let's me get laid, doesn't it?"

Again, under "Personal Life", the follwing views are extremely slanted. Where is the proof that this was ever said?

Miller married Ali Epsley, a former runway model, in 1988. The pair live in Santa Barbara, California with their two children. [24] He claims his views on abortion have changed but the proof will be in the pudding. He feels abortion should be legal up until NINE months, and that parents should have the right to kill developmentally disabled children ("for their own good") within the first two years of their life. (Sound familiar, Adolph?) Rumor has it his marriage is on the rocks due to reported numerous affairs with Miller groupies infatuated with his poofy hair [incomplete gossip-sentence, unsigned]


 * Please sign your posts (wp:sign). -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 02:04, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Waterboarding
I noticed someone erased my reference to Dennis Miller supporting waterboarding as an acceptable interrogation technique. I consider Miller's thoughts on the issue a legitimate reason for adding it to Wikipedia. Therefore, the refernce should be restored. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TORR (talk • contribs)


 * Keep in mind that his popularity in FoxNews media appearances, and on his radio show, resonate with most of listeners because of the sharp wit and satire. Don't take his comments too seriously. -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 02:12, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Sexuality
I have a question. The article states: 'Miller is quick to point out that he is still quite liberal on many social issues due to his sexuality'. Why due to his sexuality? Is he gay, bi? Does been either or straight makes him liberal? I don't get it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cjrs 79 (talk • contribs) 03:32, 28 March 2007 (UTC).
 * I'm so sorry, I thought I had. somehow lately I do write the four signs but they don't get saved... again, very sorry that i forgot to sign.  it wasn't on purpose. Cjrs 79 04:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Far as I know, he's straight as an arrow. I think it would be better worded as being open about sexual topics in general. Wahkeenah 23:00, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't take what he says to be funny too seriously. He is happily married with two sons. -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 02:16, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Note on date of first Letterman appearance
There may be some confusion around the date of Miller's first Letterman appearance online because the show begins with a gag with Phil Collins where they are supposedly showing a flashback to three months earlier and that date is on the bottom of the screen, but the show did actually take place in June which the references all agree on. --Wowaconia (talk) 23:46, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Use of quotations
I removed some quotations, the article was 10593 words before the removal of the quotations and 7836 after removal. That's 26% of the article. And I didn't even remove all the quotations. My opinion is that this amount of quotation is excessive, and a violation of our non-free content policy, which calls for quotations to be used sparingly, and only when there's no alternative. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 19:56, 30 March 2017 (UTC)


 * If there is a violation of a Wikipedia standard about article size, the article can be split into sub-articles; it may be that there are articles for the television shows he hosted already on wiki and info could be moved there. I think you will find that the quotations are in compliance of CITE. If there is a question of notability for subjects or topics quoted, that argument should be presented. I would argue that much of the longer direct quotations are of controversial positions and are necessary in order to keep WP:NPOV. An anonymous wiki-editor's paraphrase of a controversial and nuanced political position seems more legally questionable than an extended quote. --Wowaconia (talk) 22:36, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Upon your concerns, I have gone back and substituted paraphrases for quotations where it seemed it didn't damage the article.--Wowaconia (talk) 22:38, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Length/content/encyclopediac nature
This article seems way to long and has more of a tone of a fan page that an encyclopedia article. Too many trivial facts are given. For example, do we really need to know his nickname when he worked in a bowling alley while a young man. Ashmoo (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

University? Degree?
Although his attending a university is mentioned, it does not seem to be identified anywhere in the article.

Nor is it mentioned whether he received a degree.

I hope someone can fix these omissions. 2601:200:C000:1A0:21E8:7737:7590:5283 (talk) 22:14, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The infobox states "Alma mater	Point Park University (BA)". The "Early life" section has two paragraphs about Point Park University, which states he majored in journalism.  GoingBatty (talk) 22:27, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

"70's Playboy Award"
Is IMDB really a good source for this? I spent some time Googling around and the source for this is awfully circular: IMDB->Wiki->Answers.com (wiki)->DM's myspace page, etc...all with pretty much the same wording. It's all very apocryphal and none of it specific at all.

will someone please kill that tarantula on the speakers head 2601:4C3:C102:6A30:A047:EB9B:1F36:8EA8 (talk) 20:35, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Ready to remove the "Too long" maintenance template
I have spent a significant amount of time over the past month shortening and distilling this article with the end goal to remove the "too long" template. I did not add sources to the article, I only combed through the material that was already there. My edits were most often removing rambly background info, shortening quotes, and better organizing the sections. I have finished going through all the sections and I believe the article is ready for the "too long" template to be removed.

After each of my significant edits on certain sections, I let a few days pass before starting work again to give ample time for others to review the changes. There has been almost no edits on this article since I started working on this, however, so I'm not sure the lack of activity has been a silent endorsement of my work or if not enough people have seen it. I encourage others to review my edits and let me know below.

Although I believe the "too long" template can now be removed, I don't love the organization of the article. Separating his career into Stand-up, TV, and Radio is awkward and I am interested if anyone has some clever ideas about how to better divide up the article's information. IsaacWikiEditor (talk) 20:38, 4 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I recently came up with the solution to reorganize his career into sections "Stand-up and SNL," "Eponymous talk shows" (which will include his radio show), and adding his football commentary, Fox News, game shows, and Sports Unfiltered into "Other endeavors." If I don't see a response about this potential reorganization or removing the "too long" template soon, I'll just go ahead and update the page. IsaacWikiEditor (talk) 21:30, 10 October 2023 (UTC)