Talk:Dennis Wilson/Archive 1

Comment
Dennis Wilson is my favourite Beach Boy! An excellent biography! Little Surfer Girl 09:42, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, it's a nice bio but it's really not appropriate, it's far too personal 'I am listening to POB and it is clear...'. It's not fact it's opinion

"Hit once again in his throat".... Too much value given to a biased book "Heroes And Villains." Any problems that Dennis suffered after 1976 were of his own doing. Deleting it. -- Elaich 05:50, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Early in the Beach Boys career after their rise to stardom, member Mike Love was hit with a paternity suit over a baby girl. After a year, he won in court, and he never took responsibility for her. Her mother gave her the name Haley Love, and after she grew up, she had a relationship with Dennis Wilson. Seems like Dennis Wilson's biography here should mention that he shacked up with the daughter of his bandmate.


 * not so - Haley was Mike's daughter from his second marriage. The correct name is Shawn Marie Harris, mother Shannon Harris. Andrew G. Doe (talk) 08:32, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Neutral Point-of-view
This article is very much not NPOV and is mostly uncited. One example: "Despite his lower artistic profile, Wilson became far and away the most popular member of the group, becoming its box-office sex symbol"

Heroes and Villains/Steven Gaines
Please refrain from using the unreliable and unsourced fictitious book 'Heroes and Villains' by Steven Gaines as a source or a way to further any allegations/rumours that are contained within it.

Gaines continuously makes unreliable, unsourced allegations throughout the book with no alternate source or related material in support of him.

The book is closer to a trashy novel or something you would find in the fiction section of your local library than a biography or a resourced and documented piece of work.

Tiburon 10:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

How?
The "Death" section as it stands in mid-December, 2006 is totally inadequate. All we are is told is that he drowned. Was it drug-related? An accident? Suspected suicide? Was the body recovered? Any autopsy? JDG 04:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

To tie this loose end up, we note that he was buried at sea. By the way, I hear that it fell to Shawn Love to make that decision. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 15:56, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Details about Dennis Wilson's death
I remember his death, and I got most of my information from a copy of People magazine that came out immediately after he died. He died while diving off of his sailboat, 'Harmony', berthed in Marina Del Ray, California. He lived aboard the boat, and he spent a lot of time there drinking (if I recall correctly it was said to be a 'fifth' of vodka a day). He was drinking and free diving for items he had tossed overboard during previous bouts of drunken anger. He was thrilled to be finding the items (I don't remember who else was aboard, maybe one person). During one dive he simply never resurfaced, and his body was found later that day. I do remember reading that he had recently repurchased 'Harmony', which he had lost due to financial problems. He was happier than he had been in a while, but he was still drinking a lot. I think I still have my copy of that People magazine. If I find it I will expand the article, and use People magazine as a source. Hurrmic 19:40, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I am pretty certain that he wasn't diving from his boat that day, I'm pretty sure it was his friends boat called "The Emerald" -- Sahafan 14:42, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I just watched a BBC documentary about Dennis Wilson. He wasn't diving from his boat at the time of death because it had been repossessed. He was partying on another. One interesting fact which was mentioned was that he was found in the fetal position on the harbour floor. This detail was passed on by a police diver who found him to a member of the family. I remember because the guy said that it was unusual for people to drown like this, most drowned victims are found looking horrified --79.78.85.140 (talk) 04:33, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

People.com has the article archived on their website: http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0%2C%2C20189414%2C00.html (official scans here: http://archive.people.com/people/archive/jpgs/19840116/19840116-750-23.jpg - change the page no. on the image name to see the rest of article)

relevant extract Death of a Beach Boy People: January 16, 1984 Vol. 21 No. 2

"His last night alive was spent aboard the 52-foot yawl Emerald, owned by his friend Bill Oster. Dennis was with a friend named Colleen McGovern. The marina once had been home—before he was forced to sell his beloved 62-footer, Harmony, in 1980 to satisfy back bills and bank loans. He reportedly awoke by 9 a.m. and began hitting on vodka. "We went rowing in the morning, got some cigarettes, had lunch on the boat—turkey sandwiches," remembers Oster. "Dennis was in a good mood, happy. We were plotting how to buy his boat back." (Wilson's business manager, Robert Levine, had offered to repurchase the boat for him if he went 30 days without drinking.)

By noon a yacht manager, Skip Lahti, 26, who had known Wilson for a couple of years, says, "He was staggering around pretty good." Wilson napped for an hour or so, awoke, then visited Lathiel Morris, a retired friend living in a houseboat near the Emerald's slip. He seemed excited rather than drunk to Morris. "He said, 'I'm getting my boat back,' " Morris recalls. Wilson eyed Morris' 16-year-old granddaughter. Then he complained about his impending divorce. "How many does that make?" Morris asked. "The sixth, I think," Wilson answered. "I'm lonesome. I'm lonesome all the time." Morris adds, "I saw he was with this beautiful brunette [Colleen] and said, 'Ahhh, baloney.' He said, 'We've only been going out a couple of weeks.' "

Morris next saw Wilson around 3 p.m. He had begun diving into the water next to the Emerald's slip, retrieving from the soft bay floor sea-corroded junk that he had thrown off the Harmony when it was anchored there: a rope, some chains, a steel box and, eerily, a silver frame that once held a photo of an ex-wife, model/actress Karen Lamm. "He was in and out of the water, getting a kick out of all the stuff he was finding," recalls Lahti. After diving for about 20 minutes he came out of the water shivering badly, warmed up and ate another sandwich. About 4 p.m. he went back in. "He thought he found a box. He called it a chestful of gold," says Oster. "It was probably a toolbox. He was just being Dennis, entertaining everybody, being his lovable self, goofing around."

About 4:15 p.m. he came up for the last time. "He didn't indicate any problem," says Oster. "I saw him at one end of the slip. He blew a few bubbles and swam to the dinghy very quietly. It was like he was trying to hide. I thought he was clowning. I jumped on the dock to flush him out and then we would all laugh." When Wilson couldn't be found, Oster flagged a passing harbor patrol boat. Meanwhile, Oster, Morris and Lahti frantically searched the deserted docks and nearby bars for Wilson. Lahti, who knew Dennis to be a practical joker, volunteered to dive in, but Oster thought it was a typical "crazy-Dennis" stunt. "I told Bill we'd have surely found him after 20 minutes," Lahti recalls. "Bill said, 'No, he's still joking. He's known to do this sort of thing.' " As divers plunged in and probed the bay in the dark, Oster still hoped that Dennis would surface somewhere.

It was about 5:30 when they found Wilson. Four divers had been searching for him and had rigged a long pole to probe the bottom. That was where they found him, directly below the empty slip. Coroner reports called it an "accidental drowning" but a fuller toxicological report will be made. "He did drink a lot and had a lot of wild parties," says a shaken Morris, 57. "But he was one swell guy, thoughtful, considerate, even when drinking. I just can't figure out why they let him dive down there. I know it's hindsight now, but he lost his life for nothing." 109.224.168.181 (talk) 05:21, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Re the BBC documentary/Dennis being found in the foetal position

This is the relevant quote (taken from subtitles for Legends: Dennis Wilson the real Beach Boy BBC4 2010) It's Ed Roach, (a close friend of Dennis Wilson's) talking: "He curled up in 13ft of water down there. He'd curled up in a foetal position.	They found him... People don't drown in the foetal position. People drown in the most horrific ways, you know. People don't just curl up in the foetal position.	That's what the coastguard guys told me, they said when they found him,	they said he was just laying, curled up, all peaceful."109.224.168.181 (talk) 05:41, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 11:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Charles Manson
This article states "Charles Manson had briefly become Dennis Wilson's protégé before the murders,".

"Protégé"? This sounds ludicrous to me. I can't imagine Charles Manson being the protégé of a man 10 years young than himself. If he was indeed Wilson's protege, then Wilson had a real responsibility there.

I suspect that the writer meant the exact opposite.
 * Is it intended to mean that Manson was Wilson's "mentor"?
 * Or that Wilson was Manson's "protégé"?

Even if that is what was meant, it is a fairly far stretch of the word, unless Manson can actually be said to have sponsored Wilson's success or greatly influenced Wilson's thoughts or actions.

Can someone who knows more about this specific matter than I do kindly fix it. Amandajm (talk) 02:34, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Wilson was Mansons musical mentor. Sure, Manson was much older than him, but Dennis had years of experience in the musical field. Dennis also introduced him to other prominent members of the Southern California Music Scene as it says in the article.

--In the article it says that Dennis knew the reason for the Charles Manson Family Murders and that he was going to write a book about it. But the article doesnt say what happened after that. Did he write a book about it? Was he in the process of writting one? Or was this something he simply said and never acted on? I think it would be worth mentioning and i think that the article would make more sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.196.186.11 (talk) 16:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I hate to belabor this ugly business concerning Wilson's relationship with Charles Manson, but as it's a sensitive and emotional issue, and as it involves BLP (Manson), I think we need to get it right. The article says, "Those recordings, if they exist, have never been released." Charles Manson did release an LP called Lie: The Love and Terror Cult on Aware Records in 1987. A couple of the tracks on that LP have real musical quality IMO, but the rest is pretentious nonsense. In any case, this was released, and it is available on the Internet for those who look hard enough. (I defy Manson to sue me for royalties. Come on Charlie! Look at your own game boy!) Dcs002 (talk) 14:14, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Manson recorded several songs - demos, really - at Brian's home studio: these are the tracks referred to and the most certainly still exist, but have never been bootlegged. The Lie album contains none of these recordings. Andrew G. Doe (talk) 15:32, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

The article states that: "Some of Manson's songs were recorded at Brian's home studio.[11] These recordings remain unheard by the public.[12]" Someone should add to the article an explanation of who owns these tapes and exactly why that person is refusing to let anyone listen to them. If I owned the MONA LISA and refused to let anyone see it, I think an explanation would be in order.70.167.25.99 (talk) 01:47, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

rewording?
In the part about Dennis Wilson's solo career, I find:

to earn and lose Denny, in a drunk-driving crash, a Chevy Corvair sports car

I am thinking it should be reworded as this:

to earn and lose Denny a Chevy Corvair sports car which he later lost in a drunk-driving crash

Any thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 15:47, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

This is awful.
With fluff like- his raspy-sounding vocals were a key ingredient to the group's vocal blend in the studio, and in the late Sixties and Seventies his lead vocals lent a much-needed bluesy edge to an updating the Beach Boys' sound, giving their music new dimensions on the retreat of brother Brian's influence in composing and studio production, and this really is ridiculous-All at once, aged 23, he revealed a fully matured style that had obviously been incubating inside for some time, away from the other members of the band. And I'm not sure what the following gibberish is supposed to mean-Both sides got top four-star ratings in "Billboard" reviews mid-March '63 and turned out popular enough locally and in spots cross-country to earn and lose Denny, in a drunk-driving crash, a Chevy Corvair sports car. So Denny, who was named Dennis earlier in the article, made a record and it caused him to get into a drunk driving accident? Are there any citations to anything in this article? Seems like a lot of fluff written by fans,with no sources. 98.240.76.78 (talk) 21:54, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

"Dennis"
For some reason this article refers to him throughout as "Dennis". Per Wikipedia style and encyclopedic tradition, he should be referred to as "Wilson" except when the first name is needed to distinguish him from other Wilsons. Is there some consensus or reason for this first name usage, or is it just a leftover and never-corrected glitch from a very old article? I intend to change it to "Wilson" where appropriate, unless someone thinks I shouldn't. Will wait a few days for feedback. (Or feel free to correct it yourself!) --MelanieN (talk) 20:59, 16 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The other Wilsons are mentioned throughout the article, so the point is to minimize as much confusion as possible. There are probably more than a handful of instances where referring to him as "Wilson" would be okay.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 22:59, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Re my shortened lede of 12/12/16
Contributor Ilovetopaint has reverted my new shortened lede by re-inserting a quote that was not reflected in the main article. I had transferred this to a suitable place in the article, and then summarised it for the lede. I believe that this is what the lede is for. Valetude (talk) 13:05, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Rationale for Manson text in lead
(response to this diff) Huge portion of the article is devoted to this aspect of Wilson's life and it's undeniably one which he is most often known for. --Ilovetopaint (talk) 20:25, 5 April 2017 (UTC)