Talk:Departures (2008 film)/Archive 1

Plot summary
I didn't want to slap an ugly tag on the article because I'm sure it will become very popular because of the Academy Awards, but the plot section really reads like a promotional plot rather than an encyclopedia synopsis. Someone who has seen the movie should expand the plot, and keep in mind that Wikipedia is not censored and does have spoilers. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 01:48, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I am sorry about the elipsis at the end. I have NOT seen the film but took the synopsis from the Japanese wikipedia page. I think that the plot synopsys does go almost the end and there is no twist in the tale. Please feel free to add the ending and clean up the language of the synopsis. I just thought that it needed more than it had (ony the first paragraph when I came) after the academy award win last night. --Timtak (talk) 05:24, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, I wonder why people who are not familiar with something are trying to write articles about it by cutting and pasting. I would also add that there is no such thing as an encyclopedic film synopsis. Though wiki contributors have gotten into the habit of writing articles that read like poor book reports of films and novels. There is no reason to have detailed retellings of the stories. The historic reality of the work is something rather different from it's plot, and there is no reason to go to these lengths, telling the endings, making assumptions and subjective judgments. By the way, I have seen this film. I was not surprised to find the typical wooden Japanese acting and narrow range of expression, repeating over and over again the "sensitive" grimaces and improbable outbursts that passes for drama here. But Hollywood is no better! Not the worst Japanese film I have seen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by APDEF (talk • contribs) 09:21, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Production
I also wanted to add, as is wided reported in the Japanese press, that while the director is no doubt highly talented, the lead actor (I am a fan) had a more than usual involvement in the creation of the film. It was Mokoki's reading of a book about the work of Morticians that lead to the creation of the film. He is also rumoured to have had a say in direction, or at least that it was very much a collaboration. I hope that they do return. --Timtak (talk) 05:24, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Taboo in Japan
Why one has to say "death is great taboo in Japan"? It is essentially taboo in anywehere, any culture. Too much of stereotype view against Japan.--217.235.17.164 (talk) 13:08, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The director expressed this opinion I think. Also, while death is taboo pretty much everywhere homonyms of the word death (shi, 4) are even taboo, and in Japan more than 50% of people who are dying of cancer are not told that they are dying of cancer, such is the strength of the taboo on dying. In the bible death is a punishment. In the Kojiki death is defilement. The attitude to death in Japan is a bit like the attitude towards sex in the Christian religion. So, I think that the director was right. But it is in there because the director said it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Timtak (talk • contribs) 11:41, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Sex is taboo to Christians??? Are you kidding me??!!! Where is your data on this? Talk about stereotyping!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.166.14.201 (talk) 23:12, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Although death is a taboo nearly everywhere, not everywhere consider undertakers taboo. This dates back to the Japanese caste system, where so-called outcasts, Burakumin, were discriminated against, and their descendants continue to face discrimination. – Pedantic79(talk) 21:25, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * What has Burakumin to do with death taboo? As of March 2004, the Buraku association has stated "the buraku issue has basically been resolved" (see Burakumin). This non-existing "problem" has nothing to do with 2008 film. You are obviously not updated about things. Some (not all) patients are not told about the cancer in Japan, but linking that particular point with death taboo is nothing more than his/her personal view, biased by the standard of how things are working in his/her country. Hindues sometimes let the dead bodies flow the Ganges river. That, however, does not necessary means the death is not taboo in India. Anyway, it is useless to discuss it here because Wikipedia anyway require external citation sources. --217.235.2.251 (talk) 18:14, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Good points. To say that a culture has taboos is not a "stereotype against". As for the Burakumin comment, Pedantic is correct in making the point. Contact with the "formerly living" was indeed such a taboo that it was assigned to "non-human" classes. This is history, and as such does not lack relevance here. Perhaps the user is not up-to-date in that it is no longer fashionable for (educated) Japanese to react excitedly to every comment about Japan as perceived "bashing". Furthermore this is the discussion page, no citations are required. Forward! —Preceding unsigned comment added by APDEF (talk • contribs) 09:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Timtak, very appropriate and good point: "homonyms of the word death (shi, 4)" It is always amusing in our Aikido dojo to hear people hesitate while counting, ichi, ni, san, ... YON ... in confusion".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by APDEF (talk • contribs) 09:36, 6 February 2010 (UTC)


 * So what is your point of argument? The discussions is about "If the death is taboo (specifically) in Japan", and we are looking for an external source for it. We are not here to listen your "lecture" on Japan, and besides I can tell you what you write about "Ich Ni San Yon" is completely wrong. People often say "Ichi Ni San Shi" as well. Latter is rather common because it pronounces easier. "Shi" is sometimes avoided simply because it's hard to distinguish from sound "Shi" and "Ni". In addition, in Japanese, there are many words that has the same pronounciation but has different Kanji and different meanings. People care generally about the resemblance of the word, not specifically because of its relation to "death". The language is different from YOURS, and you should not just pick up one example, ignoring all other examples, and drive to your sloppy conclusion. This is not the attitude of an "educated" people.--217.235.40.228 (talk) 18:22, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Timeline
I just want to clarify the timeline:

The wife leaves before Christmas The father dies during sakura (late March/early April)

So either she returns after a few weeks, in which case there is a long time between then and the father dying, or she returns after a few months (i'm pretty sure main character says two months), in which case the father dies soon after she returns.

I've edited the plot to reflect this latter account. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.195.129.111 (talk) 22:12, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

English Title
The original name of the film, Okuribito, is comprised of the root form of the verb okuru, to send off, and hito, person. It translates into English as "those [people] who send [something unspecified] off," or "those who send off." It refers to the NK Agency's encoffinment duo and others like them, men and women who send off the dead.

However, fan-made subtitles for this film as well as the English-language Wikipedia page are using the title "DEPARTURES" instead when referring to this film. Why is this? Unless the director himself has indicated that this is his choice of title in the English language, I do not think it correct to advance this word choice any further. It is not an accurate translation of the original title nor does it even refer to the same target(s) to which the original title referred. While a departure is what the deceased is performing (albeit passively), an "okuribito" is the person sending the departed off.

The English translation "Departures" is ingenious. While I do not speak fluent Japanese, as a native English speaker the title cleverly evokes many of the issues the movie deals with while retaining a similar word play conveyed by the Japanese title.

If indeed there is a solid reason for the selection of "DEPARTURES" as the English-language title of this film -- for example, if it is the title which was used by the studio which licensed the film for North American or European distribution; or if, as considered earlier, it is the title specifically chosen by the director -- then I think it would be wise to include this information somewhere in the article and to link to the corresponding source or sources which corroborate the claim.

Otherwise, I would recommend renaming the article to "Okuribito (film)" and redirecting "Departures (film)" to this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.223.107.176 (talk) 00:55, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Sources for building on

 * Original Ebert review - good for themes (especially humor)
 * Themes section - she goes into some detail, and this covers humor a bit


 * North American reviews
 * Entertainment Weekly
 * The Globe and Mail
 * The AV Club - Done, although I really question how qualified he is to review this without even bothering to look up the cultural background.
 * The New York Times - Another reviewer who seems incapable of understanding the Japanese taboos in the film
 * Washington Post
 * Variety
 * USA Today
 * Toronto Star ("Death may be the termination of a life, but it's not the end of humanity." - what a quote for the themes section)
 * I may nix the Allmovies review, but then again it would be nice to have more than one web-based source in this section. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:02, 23 May 2014 (UTC)


 * British reviews (can't leave them out, can we?)
 * The Telegraph
 * The Independent
 * The Guardian
 * Two more behind paywalls; am trying to get them. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:02, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Sunday Times
 * The Times
 * Absolutely jack left in those two. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:24, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * All British reviews done. Geez, they weren't very verbose. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:36, 24 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Ozzie ozzie ozzie (oi! oi! oi!)
 * Sydney Morning Herald - Added, but there is considerable commentary on themes (particularly the role of tradition and modernity)
 * Herald Sun - Sucked dry

etc

 * Happier Endings: A Meditation on Life and Death by Erica Brown
 * "From “Departures” to “Yasukuni Shrine:” Caring for the Dead and the Bereaved in Contemporary Japanese Society". Japanese Religions, Vol. 35 (1 & 2): 101-112

日本語
I'll have to double-check how reliable some of these are—every Japanese website looks like tossed-together blog, even when they're pro. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 02:27, 30 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Maeda Yūichi (apparently he reviews in newspapers and magazines)
 * Yamaguchi Takuro @ Eiga Judge
 * Sōma Manabu at Nikkei Trendy
 * Ide Kenji @ Chinanet
 * Script won an award from Yomiuri?
 * "The Real Meaning of 'Okuribito'" A meditiation that the "Okuribito" is not the sōkanshi, but the friends and family that visit the funeral. Pretty sure it's not appropriate for the article. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 20:55, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Terai Hiroki (very short review) The guy's a "divorce ceremony planner"? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 21:03, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

...


 * There's a sequel to Aoyama's book? February 2014, and it's already out of print?!? (It was listed at the library, too, but I couldn't find it on the shelf.)
 * On WorldCat — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:34, 30 May 2014 (UTC)


 * 09/03/02 毎日新聞10面文化欄、「納棺夫日記」著者・青木新門氏インタビュー — can't find this online, but apparently it's the Mainichi Shimbun interview wp.ja talks about where Aoki explains why he rejected the script
 * Curly, do you think there is any useful information and/or sound bytes here? I've already taken what I can reasonably understand through GTranslate. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:02, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Wow! Okuribito really cleaned up!  You obviously have to mention how the enthusiasm of the cast gave birth to a miracle that tied together in a miraculous balance.  Hallelujah! Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:29, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Clean sweep, almost. Shame I can't trust Gtranslate enough to offer direct quotes. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:38, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Automatic translation from Japanese to English is a Herculean task—aside from normal translation issues, too much is left unsaid in Japanese, left up to context. It's usually used as the model pro-drop language.  What the WP article doesn't tell you is that the example sentence could just as easily mean "Did they like it?", "Did she like it?", or even "Did I like it?" (and the "it" could easily be "him", "them", or even "me"—"Idunno. Did I like me?")  It's not merely acceptable—"dropping" the pronoun is far more common than stating it.  A computer basically has to choose a pronoun at random, and do it for nearly every sentence.
 * It looks like this is Yamazaki's eighth win—the first was for Yashagaike (1979). He agreed to do the score after having read the script.  It's second win for Kimiko Yo (Suporting Actress), the first for A Class to Remember III (1998).  Hisaishi was nominated for the score to Okuribito, but unfortunately lost to himself for his score to Ponyo.  Hamada won for Cinematography. Takaya Hitoshi won for Lighting Direction.  Sound Recording went to Ozaki & Ono.  Kawashima won fo Film Editing.  Most of the commentary appears to be just the acceptance speeches (or maybe fragments thereof). Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:03, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, that's some good information. Eighth win all together, or eighth in a supporting capacity? Any really quotable parts from the acceptance speeches? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:12, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * What, you didn't like the miraculous miracles? Japanese people are known for being so humble ... Other than that, nothing really stands out for me.  For Yamazaki, it was his eight win in either a lead or supporting role. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:20, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess that works. "Several cast members, including * * *, described Departures performance as a miracle"? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:16, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I was being facetious, but if you like it, I might as well give the translations. Takita: "The enthusiasm of the staff and cast gave birth to a miracle." Motoki: "It feels as if everything miraculously came together in balance this time with Okuribito." Or something like that. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 12:42, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Motoki's is a good quote, I think. Sound bytes are useful for adding a human factor to the list-crufty awards. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:06, 4 June 2014 (UTC)


 * There's a mention on the shooting locations becoming tourist attractions here. This book is in the Central Library here.  I'll have to grab it. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 00:52, 10 June 2014 (UTC) Super short, nothing good.  Still have to go through the microfims of the newspapers when I can find the time. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:01, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've left some hidden requests for help in the article (translated titles and whatnot) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:58, 10 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Interview with Motoki

Question
"Yojiro [answering] dull questions in a dull manner": here we have no macrons in "Yōjirō"—I'm not sure if this is a case where we should be changing it (à la TIME ==> Time) or not, and I can't find in the MoS if it says one way or the other. Maybe either way it would be better to change it to, since it may not be immediately obvious who "Yojiro" is after calling him Takita throughout the rest of the article? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 22:59, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I can rework this. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:52, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

More awards

 * 18th Tokyo Sports Film Award (2009): Best Male Lead, Best Male Support
 * 予告篇 ZEN映画祭 Trailer ZEN Film Festival 2008: Grand Prix
 * 2009: third place
 * Awesome. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:08, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll add these to the list later; RL work has been calling. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:44, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

More stuff

 * A theatrical version? Done. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 03:04, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised you found an English source for this! Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 09:42, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I know! Shame he didn't follow up. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:37, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Video game, flamethrower
 * Departures yoghurt
 * Okuribito Academy
 * Do they tie this directly to the film? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:37, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yep, the whole first paragraph talks about the movie. And here's an RS about it. Jesus, every time I think were coming to the end, more stuff turns up. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 10:00, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * And in Japanese, too. Well, I'm back in Yogyakarta so I can probably do a bit on the soundtrack (what does it sound like) based on reviews already cited. Not quite sure where else I could look for English sources. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:15, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll try to get through the rest of these unused links over the next few days. I also picked up a little more background stuff at the library that I haven't added yet. After that, I think we'll have "comprehensive" down, and can work on tightening & prettying things up. I never would've thought this article would come close to hiring 40kb of readable prose. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 10:26, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Making this, what, the second longest I've ever worked on? Might push 41k by the time we're through — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:05, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Takita will be filming a commerical for Takaoka
 * Hmmm ... maybe not worth mentioning if it hasn't hactually been made yet. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 03:08, 22 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Debuted at #7 in Korea. Worth mentioning? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:47, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm... maybe if the article were shorter, but at this point I think it borders on trivial. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:00, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Alright. "an Official Memorial Book from Goma Books" can be cited to the book (you have it now, right?) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:03, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * No, that's a different book from the one I bought. If, I can't find a cite for the memorial book, I don't think it's important enough to mention, seeing how long the article is getting, with more to come. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 09:24, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah. Well, right now the single largest section is the reviews; I can remove several of the less prominent ones. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:31, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, how about we don't worry about that until we run out of stuff to add, then maybe we'll have a better perspective onwhat deserves to stay. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 09:42, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Oh, I'll be out of the city from Monday to Friday, so I won't be adding very much. I'll try and go through the Hollywood Reporter and maybe Los Angeles Times and New York Times databases tomorrow for more English sources; I was able to get another 800 characters from Variety earlier. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:46, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll probably hit the library to sift through microfilm next Friday. I suspect I'll be basically done with my part once I've done that and finished with Mô Hitori no Okuribito. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 10:12, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I'll try and go through a couple other entertainment magazines once I'm home, then add a lead and edit this to be consistent. After that, GA, DYK, and FAC. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:32, 16 June 2014 (UTC)


 * stats--- preparing the dead was handled mostly n the community until 1972; today 80% are handled by hospital staff. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 11:24, 16 June 2014 (UTC) Done,, but should probably be integrated better into the rest of the section. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 03:04, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Koyama's first film script? Done. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 21:44, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Checklist

 * Hmm... looks like we're getting there

Lede
(Save for last; let's get the content finished up)

Plot
Certainly good enough for GAN. Might need more polish for FAC.

Production
This is where we're hurting right now. It won't be FAC-ready until August, at least, as I need to check that interview. The cultural background section is probably ready.


 * I'll keep looking. I'm really surprised that there doesn't seem to be a Takita biography out there—neither in the library nor on Amazon. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:31, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I did find this—used for ￥99, so I've ordered a copy. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:32, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * That looks useful for the visual design of the film, thanks! Sorry to put you through this. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:51, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * As long as my wife doesn't notice me ordering more books, there's nothing to be sorry for. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 00:30, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Soundtrack
Only seems to have been given a domestic release. Curly, looks like you'd have to find the sources. If we can't find anything, work it into Adaptations and other media


 * Well, hey, I never knew there was a Billboard Japan. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:31, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know if this site is reliable, but it claims there was a Taiwan release of the soundtrack. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:52, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I think Discogs is cited in some featured album articles. Let me check. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:00, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Nope, not reliable. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:03, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Definitely don't have enough for a stand-alone section. Moving this here. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:49, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Themes and style
Probably good enough for GA. I'd want to flesh out a bit for FAC, and definitely polish the prose a bit more.

Release
Definitely needs more on the home release in Japan and Europe, if possible. A little more on the alternate media would be nice, and marketing if possible.
 * There was definitely a Bluray disc (region-free, too!), but the only info I've found on it so far is from retail sites and blogs. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 00:35, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * WorldCat? Good enough for proof of existence. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:08, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Actual release information is pretty much at FA level (the first three paragraphs). Thanks Curly! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:29, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Reviews
I'd want another Japanese review or two to be safe, but this is certainly ready for GAC. Might be issues with the number of reviews cited, but I doubt we could trim more than 3 or 4 without losing our NPOV.


 * I've been having trouble finding newspaper reviews from the time of the release. Japanese newspapers are not good when it comes to archiving this stuff (Japanese publishers are allergic to digital in general—you can get Haruki Murakami for ereaders in English, French, Spanish, Italian ... but not in Japanese!).  There is a library not too far from my place that has extensive newspaper holdings, I'll just have to find the time to get out there. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:31, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Just to make things harder to google for, it appears at least Asahi Shimbun has been using crappy OCR to digitize articles. This one obliterates both "Okuribito" and "Kinema Junpo" in the title, and it's as recent as 2009. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 00:36, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, it appears Japan and Indonesia are, in some places, the same when it comes to technology. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:44, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Awards
Just need to reference what is unreferenced, and maybe add some more from the hidden list there. There are enough awards for a stand-alone article, so we might be able to trim this to just the biggest awards (Academy Awards, Japanese Academy Awards, one or two others) once that article (list) is written. Curly, it appears most of those awards I haven't been able to cite are Japanese, and I'm at a dead end when it comes to Googling them.


 * I'll get on this. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:31, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Any nominations for Kinema Junpo, or just wins? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:19, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The source didn't list nominations. I'll see what I can find. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 01:50, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Making the accolades list now. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:56, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Here. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:02, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think Kinema Junpo does nominations—even searching for nominations without searching for Okuribito turns up nothing. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 06:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:28, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Golden Rooster incorrect? Hmm. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:34, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The Chinese WP page doesn't mention the award at all. I've been doing a cut-&-paste search in Chinese (I don't read Chinese at all), and what's bugging me is that there are a lot of hits for "送行者" (Okuribito in Chinese) and "金鸡奖" ("Golden Rooster" in Chinese), but whenever I click through and ctrl+f to search for "送行者", on most of the pages it's not even there, and the ones where it is there only talk about the Oscars. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 06:43, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm... we have a Golden Rooster Awards article, and a Hundred Flowers Awards. Nothing in either. The producers still claim the Rooster though. Can't give you the link because it's blacklisted. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:47, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Chinese source, gives Assembly. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:51, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Another. Looks like there were no roosters for our encoffiners. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:54, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Based on the time the reports came out, it would have had to be the 29th Hundred Flowers Awards, but my Xinhua source above says "no way". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:55, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Can't even find mention of a nomination, let alone a win. Mix up on the part of the Japanese, or have the Chinese thrown this down the memory hole?  Except it's not like it's a political film. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 06:59, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hunting... although for China and Japan, anything can be political. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:03, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I thought 2009 was a relatively quiet time—no Yasukuni visits, the Senkakus weren't in the news ... Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:05, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... footnote about the claims? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:01, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Pretty awkward. I'd say yeah. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:05, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

"當時，該片被翻譯為《為逝者送行的人》，參加的是金雞百花獎的國際影片展映單元，也是該片的全球首映. 但是據當時在現場的記者回憶，整個放映過程並不順暢，影片只有前半部分有字幕，中途還燒了三四次膠片. 在場的都是記者和嘉賓，人數並不多，但沒有人因此退場.

“那次我們拿到了3 個獎，最佳導演、最佳影片以及最佳男主角，那也是這部電影拿到的第一個國外獎項. ” 瀧田洋二郎告訴記者. 導演和演員當時都沒去大連領獎. 獲獎的消息被擔任字幕放映的志願者第一時間打在銀幕上，影片結束後，現場的中國觀眾集體起立鼓掌，表示祝賀.

At that time, the film has been translated as "farewell to the deceased person", to participate in the international film screenings unit Golden Rooster Awards, is the world premiere of the film. But according to a reporter at the scene recalled the entire screening process is not smooth, only the first half of the film has subtitles, midway also burned three or four times the film. The presence of both reporters and guests, not many, but no one therefore withdrew.

"That we got three awards, Best Director, Best Picture and Best Actor, it is also the first film to get the foreign award." Yojiro Takita told reporters. Director and actor at the time did not go to Dalian award. The award-winning messages are screened volunteers as subtitles on the screen the first time to play after the end of the film, the scene of the Chinese audience stood up to applaud, congratulations."


 * Source: http://big5.china.com.cn/gate/big5/culture.china.com.cn/renwu/2010-08/11/content_20683977.htm
 * Blasted film had a different translation at the time! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:13, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * This says they were "Audience favourites". Not Gold Roosters, but still awards. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:15, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, there appears to be a mention in the Chinese Wiki article. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:26, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there are a lot of hits under that title. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:33, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Notes and references
Needs to be standardized. We can save this for later though. SFN all the way?


 * Well, I'm a addict, but I'll go with whatever you want.  I can reformat it all if 's what you want. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:31, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I do SFN in articles I start from scratch, so that will work. We can do this whenever, so it's not that big of a deal. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:01, 8 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I can do the rest of these tomorrow. I wanted to do some non-Departures work, so I'm finishing a start-class article on Pride first. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:02, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * All SFN, although I think it's not quite standard yet. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:44, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Others
Images! Oh, how we need images... nothing on Flickr. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:57, 8 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I was talking with a guy I work about this the other day. Try strolling through the Japanese Wikipeida a bit, and you'll notice many high-profile articles are devoid of photos.  He was explaining that there's no concept of Fair Use in Japanese law (I didn't bother to check out if that's true).  Japanese IP holders are generally pretty tightfisted with their IP.  Still, I'll look around. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:31, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * There are lots of images of the café, but none are labeled for reuse. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:01, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Here's the NK Agent office, on Flickr & labelled for reuse. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:05, 8 June 2014 (UTC) Added. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:35, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * A room in a house used in the movie, maintained as it was and now used as a tourist trap. Added. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 00:28, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Wow, they've gone that far with this film? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:50, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * There's a website with a map of the shooting locations. Apparently the NK Agent site has been open to the public since 31 march 2014.  Here's a hotel's site that also gives this kind of info.  Even Google Maps is in on the action.  It looks like there's a lot more, but none of it is RS material—promotional sites and blogs, blogs, blogs. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 01:27, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, I found something on it in the Yomiuri Shimbun. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 01:29, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Fantastic! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:31, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Let's see... restorations... hundreds of thousands (!?) of tourists... city council wants to promote it... very useful for the last paragraph of the article. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:32, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Whoops! Closed from March 2014.  It was open from 2009, but because the building's so old they've had to close it up do to safety issues. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 01:37, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * We can use this to cite the building where the NK Agency was located in the Production section as well. If I'm not misreading Google translate, it was... something to do with food, originally? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:52, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure it was a restaurant. Do you think I included to much info?  It's a pretty long paragraph now. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 02:06, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I've moved some of the info to "Filming", but it's still a pretty long paragraph. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 02:11, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If we can balance it a bit with other "Cultural impact" (new section title), particularly tourism (the cafe?), that will help. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:14, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * There are a few interior shots labelled "NK Agent"—I assume they're random shots from inside the NK Agent building, but they're not really recognizable as something you'd see in the movie. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:17, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe the image of Hirosue Ryōko should be cropped to the head and shoulders? The clothing & dance have nothing to do with the movie. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:37, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Will do. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:50, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Onkyō Publish
I don't know if it makes a difference, but "Onkyō Publish" is actually the name—scroll down and see. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:18, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * But would we say "Published by X Publisher"? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:30, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, I thought you were dropping it because nouning verbs sounded silly. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:58, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * That too ;). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:59, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Trivia?
In an essay, Aoki wrote that while there was a scene in the book (as in the movie) in which his wife yelled at him about his "filthy" work, she was infuriated when a neighbour asked her if she had actually said that.
 * Hmm... that could probably be worked in somewhere. But we need to polish the development section a bit before then. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:29, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Where to fit this?
Daigo gains a greater perspective on life and comes to know the diversity of people's lives only after encountering them after death.

Or something like that—something about the diversity of types of people Daigo meets in his work (the yankī schoolgirl, the crossdresser, the grandfather covered with kisses, the old woman who dies alone...). I couldn't figure out where to fit it in the "Themes and style" section. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:15, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * End of second paragraph, I'd say. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:35, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Done. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 21:43, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Prose slips

 * "Daigo prepares her body in front of the Yamashita family and Mika, who had the public bath owner. " (had known?)
 * Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * "Although the character of Mika was initially envisioned as being the same age as Daigo, pop singer Ryōko Hirosue, who had previously acted in Takita's Himitsu (Secret) in 1999." (what about her?)
 * Cast. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * "Aoki expressed concern that the film was unable to address "the ultimate fate of the dead", and later reportedly refused permission for Departures to use the Coffinman title"; "After seeing the script, Aoki rejected having his name and book title used in the film, ...". It seems unlikely that both of these can be true. Belle (talk) 11:02, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I meant that one was "reportedly" and the other was "fact". (Still, it's gone, so who cares) Belle (talk) 12:38, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * "book title" = title Coffinman (the title itself, and not the book), so yes they can both be true. Removed the first as it was redundant. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the copyedit. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * One more: "Scott highlighted the contrast between the taboo of death and jobs related to it." Should this be contrasted with something else? There doesn't seem to be any contrast between these two things.
 * Alright, dealt with. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:26, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

(BTW, I removed the literal translation as it felt a bit ham-fisted since the concept of Okuribito doesn't exist in English and can't really be explained in English; "send-off person" would be more literal anyway) Belle (talk) 12:38, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Which is why I'm suspicious of that nasty word "literal", but there should still be a translation because (a) we don't want people thinking "okuribito" "literally" "means" "departures"; (b) we need context for the pun of "Mukaebito" that comes up later; an (c) okuru (from which okuri is derived) covers both "send [an object]" and "send off [a person]"; at first glance, "okuribito" can appear to have something to do with a delivery service (which I guess it does in a way). Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 21:33, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Guess we could leave a hidden note to avoid having it removed again, and nix the word "literally". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd like to see the word "literally" banned from the language. Most people use it to mean "figuratively" anyways, and it seems to get slapped on any and all translations, whether appropriate or not. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:45, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd like to see the word "literally" literally banned from the language as well. Nothing but a literal mess. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:50, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, it literally makes me tear my hair out every time I see it. Must stop typing now as I have to go to hospital and then the wig shop. (I see your reasoning for the translation, the hidden note should prevent meddlesome types like me from dipping their sticky paws in) Belle (talk) 07:43, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I literally don't have nearly enough hair to afford a good scalp-tear, and am literally envious of you having such an option via which to vent. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 13:40, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Comicalize
There's nothing really "so-Japanese" about コミカライズ---it's just a cheezee wasei eigo portmanteau of "novelize" and "comics". I don't think anything important would be lost by translating it as "comics adaptations".

For 映画で企画、漫画を作る　「コミカライズ」が隆盛, "In the Movies, Planning for Comics, Komikaraizu is Flourishing" can't be right. I can't think of something elegant, but the gist is of something being originally planned as a movie and then being turned into comics. Not "literal", but the sense is "'Comicalized' comics adapatations of films flourishing". (I don't think 企画 needs to be translated---in context I think it means "originally planned for", with "story" implied and not stated). The article is about comics adaptations that happen to appear for whatever reason before the film they're adapted from. The title is confusing to parse because it's in abbreviated "headlinese". Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 13:12, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't finish translating the titles. I thought I had done them all already. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 13:15, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * "In the Film Industry, Planning for Comics Adaptations (Comicalisation) is Flourishing", you mean? Or perhaps "In the Film Industry, Comic Adaptations Are Flourishing"? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:16, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No, "planning" refers to the movie, not the comics .Or, rather, it refers to the story being planned for the movie, and then adapted into comics. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 13:20, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * "The story" meaning any story, not Okuribito. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 13:22, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Right, I got that much (second point). Hmm... "In the Film Industry, Planned Stories Flourish as Comics" or "Comics Adaptations of Planned Movies Flourish" (completely different structure, but...) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:23, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The article talks specifically about planned (as in "projected") movies, but that's not what's meant by 企画 ("planned"). It just means stories that were originally planned for movies (at least in this context). In the first paragraph the article also talks about movies that come out first and are followed by adaptations, and it uses 企画 to refer to those stories as well. This is one of those places where dictionaries/Google Translate fail---they can't give you context. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 13:34, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm actually thinking now that the first translation I gave is the one to go with. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 13:37, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * "Comics Adaptations of Stories Meant for Film Flourish" is about the best I can do with what poor English I have. *sigh* (Or your first translation... really, it's a small sapling in the forest of the article) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:38, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * How about "Comics Adaptations of Films Flourishing"? Guaranteed to drive the "literalists" to editwarring Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 13:46, 15 July 2014 (UTC).
 * "Film Comics Flourishing"? "If you can't read Japanese the translated title is of no use to you anyway, go away"? Belle (talk)
 * I like the second one, but it could be tweaked with more swearing. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 14:16, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Love the second one, but kinda hard to get it past FAC. If Curly's or Belle's most recent suggestions (barring the second one) are serious, we could just stick with that.202.169.226.177 (talk) 14:30, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * (ec)I got the impression the article was suggesting that when the stories were planned for the movies it was with an eye to the adaptations. It's not a great article in that regard, just a collection of loosely related movies/adaptations smooshed (that is a technical term; yes, it is) together. The first translation could benefit from leaving Komikaraizu untranslated to avoid '"Comicalized" comics' (a tautology which can be disguised with the Japanese; not like Sean Connery in You Only Live Twice though, that's not fooling anybody). Belle (talk) 14:04, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No, it starts by talking about how we expect to see movies adapted from novels, comics, and TV dramas, but that recently we see more and more films being adapted to movies. Then it talks about a couple of cases where such adaptations end up preceding the movies, and that fills up the rest of the article. And I don't think "Comicalized comics" is any worse than "manga wo tukuru komikaraizu"---it's not our job to unshittify bad writing. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 14:16, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Aaargh...I've got to get to bed, but one last thing: I think the wording about "being fired" should be have something to do with downsizing or restructuring. It's not just anyone who had been fired who would sympathize with Daigo, but those who had lost their jobs since the Bubble burst in the '90s---the generation that first experienced that "lifetime employment" was not a birthright. Something the sources probably don't explicate, assuming you know already if you're interested enough to read about a Japanese topic in the first place. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 14:06, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * (Crisco): I could try and rework... but I don't quite think people are "restructured", which is why I tried to change to something else. 202.169.226.177 (talk) 14:27, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Odds and ends

 * Okuyama, Yoshiko (2013) "Shinto and Buddhist Metaphors in Departures," Journal of Religion & Film: Vol. 17: Iss. 1, Article 39. Available at: http://digitalcommons.unomaha.edu/jrf/vol17/iss1/39 - Reliable, do you think? I'm tempted to say yes. A bit of good stuff here. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:18, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The author, Yoshiko Okuyama, is an associate professor at the University of Hawaii, HILO (source), so I guess that's it. I'll get on this when I get back home. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:28, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It says University of Nebraska at the top—I assume that's reliable. Journal of Religion & Film's a peer-reviewed journal. Looks legit to me. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:46, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Only eight edits in the whole of 2013, but nearly 700 (and counting) in 2014!
This article is just a total ego trip. A stable article is turned into a long-winded cut-and-paste. No more plain cast list, no more soundtrack list, no more simple location listing. Instead we have reams and reams of padding (ie twaddle) about how it was received and reviewed. Yeah we get that it was an international hit, but just how many reviewers comments does that require? Likewise how much does it matter the subject is taboo in Japan, it was a hit outside of Japan.

This article is why Wikipedia is a nothing more than an outlet for people with feeling of social inadequacies. The article is entirely invented by plagiarising what can be found on the internet or published sources (lol it's only an infringement of copyright if it's obvious, however all Wikipedia is paraphrased plagiarism!). Instead of keeping it tight - like the article was for an entire year, someone with a need to feel self important copy/pastes everything they can just so they can get a "good article". And in turn screws the reader.

Sorry but the article is now a self-indulgent piece of crap that serves no useful purpose except to the person who wrote it. And they now spend all their time like a loner with a shotgun trying to stop any edits that might harm their precious ego trip. You can feel the sanctimonious sense of achievement oozing from the article, how the information contained therein is not for informing the casual reader but garnering self promotion for the author. The sections are too long, and the writing boorish and verbose.

Anyone with half-a-brain should be given the choice of whether they wish to read the non self-indulgent article from a year ago or this testament to hubris! An article that is all ego trip is only "good" for its author not the reader. :-( 31.51.45.135 (talk) 17:57, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Cast
A cast list is useful for the following reasons: Notable actors are listed (even if they have a minor role) - Concise Main actors can be found easily. There is no reason, why this section can not remain together with a plot section which also links to the main characters. A rule specific to one article created by the main contributers tastes a bit of ownership.Inwind (talk) 07:17, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * We have a cast list: worked into the body of the plot. The main characters and their actors are readily accessible there, as is the context of their performance. Furthermore, WP:FILMCAST recommends that only one form of cast list be included, and notes that stand-alone lists work better for stub-class articles (which this is certainly not). Through the GA and FA review process, there have been no complaints over the current format; there is a WP:CONSENSUS that it is acceptable. Your arguments otherwise are not convincing. Of course, Curly Turkey may have other views. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:39, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * As far as I can see, user Crisco 1492s edit removed the cast list and it was not challenged since. My edit changed the status quo, therefore WP:CONSENSUS is no longer true. Any other opinions ? Inwind (talk) 08:41, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No, I don't have an opinion, but I'm for the status quo unless a consensus is formed to the contrary. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 10:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I quite honestly can't follow your logic, inwind. I've pointed you directly to the part of the MOS which implies that, in well-developed articles, a bare cast list is not enough/acceptable. You not only ignored that, but claimed that your edit (by a lone individual) is enough to overcome a consensus established by a dozen other editors. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:49, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I think in this case, if we must have a section for casting list, it's should be more like Prometheus (2012 film), with much detailed infomation. But consider there's already a "casting" section in this article, I think it's make this stand-alone lists pretty unnecessary, so I concur with Crisco 1492 here.--Jarodalien (talk) 14:38, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Any objections to adding an infobox in the casting section in a similar format as Fight Club ? Inwind (talk) 05:18, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * More manageable, but even then (if we're using Fight Club as an example) we'd have to limit it to the main cast. We've already got a good image of Hirosue (though I'd prefer one of Motoki, if there were a free image available), and that's more useful than an infobox repeating information that's already in the plot section. According to MOS:IMAGELOCATION, we'd have to lose the image if we wanted to put in an infobox there. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:38, 3 March 2015 (UTC)