Talk:Dependent personality disorder/Archive 1

Misc
This article needs more links. -- Fearisstrong 15:24, 23 Jul 2006 (UTC)

This article needs review to make it more NPOV. -- The Anome 07:46, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Evolution
The real trouble here is the patchwork approach of most current psychological theory. An overriding theory of human and other species behavior exists but is not incorporated in this article or the concept.

Regarding Dependence:

Behavioral dependence is a drive with bimodal expression whereof the primary expression by the neonate elicits the secondary expression by the parent/caregiver. The evolutionary influence of dependence drive is similar to that of competitive sexual selection as noted by Darwin and operates in the following manner. The period of infantile-juevenile dependence cannot exceed the capacity of the parental response. This acts dynamicaly through evolution to either restrict or extend the period of primary dependence. The influence of these behaviors is significant on the maturational and developmental reproductive characteristics of the specific species exhibiting behavioral dependence.i don't get this

Regarding Dependence Disorders:

First; it must be recognized that among primate species and especially among H. Sapien enculturation/socialization, its achievment and its display, is competitive sexual selection. Therefore, the close conjunction of the operation of the primary dependence impulse and the competitive/enculturative impulse functions during the primary enculturative period, historicaly referred to as the psycho-sexual stages, when these two named drive impulses are in fact incongruent and often incompatible can generate various maladaptive behaviors.

However: The basic evolutionary function of any culture, be it avian, reptile, mammal, etc. or even H. variations, is regulation of intra-species competition. Thus, regulation of competition as competition. So, among humans, where we do not observe a true culture of dominance as is seen in most other primates, other factors, primarily inclusion (as inclusive membership) is the act of competitive significance. Cultural inclusion acts through establishing a range of acquired behavioral adaptations. Then we must question the validity or the appropriateness of classifying some behaviors as maladaptive and limit the application of the concept of dependence disorders to only the most significant. Among which we would expect to find infanticide, paracide & sch.

What's HPD?
The article breaks the rule about abbreviations: it starts using one before it introduces the long-form term. So, does anyone know what HPD is?
 * I added the missing link. Please read the article again to find it. --Gogino 00:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * HPD = Histrionic Personality Disorder.


 * On another issue, can someone please tell me what this part of the article means: "Clinical interest in dependent personality disorder has existed since Abraham first described the oral character"?


 * This sounds totally out of context. Who is Abraham, and what is the oral chracter?  Is this the Abraham of the Bible talking about the oral tradition of passing down stories?  What this has to do with Dependent Personality Disorder is beyond me. - Geelin 13:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You can read section 108 at, the whole page at , and here you need a subscribtion.
 * --Gogino 07:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, OK, but it would be worth explaining such terms in the article; the piece should be self-explanatory (jargon terms should be properly defined, so that people don't have to go searching around the internet for definitions). There should also be no ambiguity about what's in the article, otherwise it sounds unfathomable. Geelin 15:11, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Copyright infringement?
I compared a few lines from the current version of this article with the Sharon Eckleberry (hope I spelled that right) webpage listed as a reference. They were identical, and I bet that a line-by-line comparison would show that entire paragraphs are from the Eckleberry page. The website that posted the article has a copyright page which says, among other things, that "The articles which are RESIDENT (as opposed to linked to another site) on this site are the property of their respective authors/owners. The use of articles residing on (linked to) another site should adhere to copyright law and/or any use guidelines presented by that site. You are free to download, copy/print and use any article which is RESIDENT on this site as long as you attribute/credit the article's authorship/ownership in the body of the article, do not modify the content of the article in any way, and do not use the article for commercial gain." That would rule out its use in Wikipedia. Katherine Tredwell 16:16, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The outside links no longer work and the pages seem to be gone. (When I looked at the site before, it had a notice that it was no longer being actively maintained.) Without the original for comparison, it is hard to tell what from the wikipedia article might be copyvio or otherwise problematic. I hope somebody sees this someday and looks into the matter. Katherine Tredwell 18:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Mnemonic?
What's that mnemonic section on the page? Why is it relevant to the content of the page? It seems just crap to help people studying about the subject remember it for the exam. That's not really what Wikipedia is for, is it? 200.127.223.79 (talk) 19:08, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Inline references
The inline references in this article make it look like an essay Yeah dude, PowerUserPCDude was here (yeah) (talk) 00:22, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problems with diagnostic criteria
The American Psychiatric Association has not released its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders into public domain, but claims copyright. The Wikimedia Foundation has received a letter of complaint (2010030910040817, for those with access) about the use of their diagnostic criteria in this and a number of other articles. Currently, this content is blanked pending investigation, which will last approximately one week. Please feel free to provide input at the copyright problems board listing during that time. Individuals with access to the books would be particularly welcome in helping to conduct the investigation. Assistance developing a plan to prevent misuse of the APA's material on Wikipedia projects would also be welcome. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:02, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Your threats in this regard are absolutely ridiculous. As long as the material used in any Wikipedia article is properly sourced via endnotes and/or direct external links, it can be used freely, just like anything else. It doesn't have to be in the public domain. No one can use copyright or the "non-release into public domain" as an excuse to disallow use of a fact or set of facts; if that were the case, absurd things could happen, such as criminals copyrighting the stories of their crimes and forbidding Wikipedia talking about a murder because the murderer's story is 'copyrighted'. Ha. Kikodawgzzz (talk) 18:12, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
 * This is not my threat; in case you missed that part, this was a letter of complaint from the copyright holder to the Wikimedia Foundation. This content has been removed again and should not be restored. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:25, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Please see discussion on issues
I've started a thread over at histrionic personality disorder in which I mention similar clinical-verification problems (and thus problems with calling this a 'disorder' at all) in the case of DPD. Please visit this thread and contribute. Kikodawgzzz (talk) 18:06, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Submissiveness
The article says that people with this disorder are submissive, docile and subservient, which I realise is typical of DPD people. However, the DSM criteria do not require this to be the case. Can an anxious, introverted, vain, avaricious, insecure person who does virtually nothing for themselves and fits the criteria, but is habitually demanding of a high standard of living and many gifts from the rich, foolish person they are dependent on, have this disorder? Of course, few people would spend a huge amount of time, money and effort on someone who gives little in return, but it does happen. Are demanding people who are very dependent on others considered to have DPD? 188.28.198.137 (talk) 18:34, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * - DSM definition criteria do require submissiveness, as the ref states. This info was missing from this article until I added it a few minutes ago. Jim Michael (talk) 22:50, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.health.am/psy/more/group_psychotherapy_dpd/ and http://www.health.am/psy/more/residential_and_day_treatment_therapies_dpd/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:22, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Regarding Self-Image section and self-validation
The Self Image section as stands claims (paraphrased) that by reacting to false self-perception of impotence and incompetence the individual can become impotent and incompetent. (I suspect the problem here is that this section is a bit squirrelly.) This raises the interesting question of whether the self-perception of inadequacy and helplessness must be also unrealistic. For example a wolf-child or a handicapped person might have realistic perceptions of inadequacy, and might therefore exhibit all of the disordered behaviors (submission, dependence, not expressing emotions such as anger which may factually alienate their caregivers) in an adaptive rather than a disordered mode. Would the person who recreates themselves to match their self-image as per that paragraph become no longer disordered? This article is coming dangerously close to exposing the underlying fraudulency of per se psychiatry: there's only really one disorder—adapting to the disorders of one's caregivers and not learning new behaviors when one escapes their care. 76.126.215.43 (talk) 03:54, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

BPD & HPD
The Similarities and differences section says that both dependents and histrionics feel paralyzed when alone and need reassurance that they will not be abandoned. This is true of DPD and BPD, but not HPD. The ref is merely a page number, so it cannot be checked online, so I think there is a mistake in this regard. The HPD article does not mention histrionics being unable to cope with being alone. Dependents and borderlines need to be looked after a lot; few of them do well in life. In contrast, most histrionics are successful and popular, with many admirers. Histrionics are surgent, seductive, chatty, flirtatious, gregarious, egocentric exhibitionists who energetically pursue hedonism. A histrionic could easily contact her friends/admirers, or find new admirers without difficulty, should she become lonely. She would not be psychologically paralyzed. Although histrionics need admiration, attention and reassurance that they are still attractive and popular, many of them are independent and live alone or are capable lone parents. Dependents feel powerless and have low self-esteem. They feel incapable of making decisions; they think of themselves as inadequate, needing to be cared for and protected in a harsh, cruel world. It is easy to see why dependents such as Susan Smith and Susan Karolewski feel this way, having endured very traumatic upbringings. Borderlines often hate themselves and have chaotic, self-destructive lifestyles, for example Keith Moon, Kurt Cobain and Amy Winehouse. Likewise, borderlines have a great deal of difficulty coping and struggle with their self-image. Histrionics love themselves and are socially ambitious, proud and unrestrained in pursuing their goals. Jim Michael (talk) 14:44, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Jim Michael! You could be right. I found the book title (Disorders of Personality: DSM-IV and Beyond) - however I don't have access to it. My suggestion to you is that you find an alternative source and with help of that source rewrite the section. Kind regards!  Lova Falk     talk   08:39, 31 October 2013 (UTC)