Talk:Depression (mood)/Archive 3

Reversion today
Could these 3 articles be useful for the "Non-medical treatment" section - first 3 sentences- removed here? CBT not being medical is arguable ofc. For the bit on "PASS", the primary paper was cited in "Research Review: Altered reward function in adolescent depression: what, when and how?" ...though I'm not sure they went so far as to mention the therapy itself. The added co-morbid PTSD and menopause bits were readded/kept I think. --92.6.211.228 (talk) 17:22, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * If that was your work I undid, I apologise. I know how annoying/upsetting that can be. There were two main problems. First, we rely, wherever possible, on sources as described in this guideline: WP:MEDRS. That means recent expert reviews, graduate-level textbooks, government/professional guidelines and similar. But the second problem, which I didn't address in my edit summaries, is that much of the content I removed was too specific for this overview of the mood.
 * This article addresses the mood, regardless of its cause. Much of the content I removed was addressing depressed mood associated psychiatric disorders. Treatments that may be effective for depressed mood associated with major depressive disorder or dysthymia can't be assumed to be effective for depressed mood associated with borderline personality disorder, hypothyroidism or Hepatitis C medication. The article doesn't address treatment at all, it is really a sign-post to the articles on those conditions, where the treatment specific to that condition can be properly covered. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 18:23, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It wasn't mine, no. I happened to see it browsing Related changes while editing elsewhere. I'd originally thought of restoring part of it using those refs. Because of not being confident of the sources adequacy, feeling it was too specific when the article was more about the mood itself or 'the blues', and seeing the student who'd added it did so on the last course day & so probably wouldn't return either, I leant toward omission as well. I thought it wouldn't hurt to post on Talk in case. Put another way, on reflection I agree with you. --92.6.211.228 (talk) 15:52, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 16:56, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Propose rename to "Unhappiness"
Despite a lot of edits from many editors over several years, I still find this article very unsatisfactory, principally because many editors and readers confuse the subject with mood disorders. For example, the section about prevalence, which gives figures for "major depression or other depression" (major depression plus minor or subthreshold depression plus dysthymia under PHQ-8), really belongs in a medical article; discussion of "prevalence" of moods seems out of place. The first paragraph is clearly also based on a list of symptoms for major depressive disorder. I'm not sure how much of the confusion is cultural: in England saying "I'm depressed [miserable, feeling low] this afternoon and need to go out to cheer up" makes perfect sense.

The discussion has now depressingly become considerably longer than the article (which has been subject to many cuts and deletions). Discussion has established:
 * Depressed mood is an everyday phenomenon, and quite distinct from a psychiatric diagnosis. I commend Anthonyhcole for trying to maintain this distinction in the face of what seems to be an overwhelming confusion.  For example ICD and DSM definitions of depression as a diagnostic category (major depressive disorder or single depressive episode) include "depressed mood" for at least two weeks as one likely but not necessary symptom.  It would make no sense to have a syndrome which has itself as a possible symptom, and in such a definition I believe "unhappiness" as a symptom would substitute acceptably for "depressed mood" or "low mood".  Neither "depressed mood" nor "unhappiness" necessarily involve "aversion to activity" as implied by current first para (OK, so experimental psychology may show a correlation between dysphoria or dysphoric mood and social avoidance, but that's not the point).
 * Depressed mood is distinct from sadness, not because "depressed mood" is a medical term, but because unhappiness and sadness are two distinct things, varying in tone (perhaps Kummer/unglucklich vs Trauer in German?), or at the very least not all unhappiness (or low mood) is sadness. Possibly confusingly, people wanting to distinguish clinical depression seem to more often contrast it with "sadness" than with "unhappiness" or low mood.  We also have a good article (not perhaps in the Wikipedia sense of GA) on grief to which bereavement redirects.
 * Unhappiness redirects here and has done since 2005. Misery has a disambiguation page leading here, while Woe directs the reader to Sadness.

A consequence of the rename might be to remove the article from a medical remit. As a suggested policy, this would result in literary content being added principally to "unhappiness", medical content (and the regular pseudo-medical content) going to mood disorder (if general, such as the prevalence statistics) or major depressive disorder (if specific), and psychological content perhaps mostly going to dysphoria or go to improve Mood (psychology), with links between them as appropriate. In summary, I think an article for this subject is needed, but the current title confuses expert and non-expert readers alike because of using a Latinate, technical-sounding term for a common experience. What would happen if Happiness were renamed "Elevation (mood)"?--Cedderstk 11:54, 10 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I realised this might raise the question of where to add encyclopaedic material relating to effects on mood of medical factors such as endocrine disorders or adverse effects of drugs. Social factors would presumably stay here or (if social psychology using more specialised language) go under dysphoric mood or mood (psychology).  You would expect to find things like Parkinsonism also mentioned under mood disorders because of its carve-out from psychiatric diagnoses, but at least in the medium term medical events that depress mood fit fine in this unhappiness article under their own section, or could be spun-off into a separate article.  --Cedderstk 12:30, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree the prevalence section should go, for the reasons you put, and have boldly deleted it. I will mull over the rest of your suggestion and get back to you in a few days. Thank you for this very thoughtful proposal. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 13:59, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Still thinking. Meanwhile, I've asked for input from another editor with a better understanding of the topic than I have. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 03:04, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, in real life, I strongly agree with this sentiment, and try to distinguish between "depression" (as a shorthand for major depressive disorder), and "depressed mood" which I call "unhappiness", "sadness", "low mood" etc. (i.e. I try to avoid using the term "depression" because of this ambiguity. However, on wikipedia we have to reflect current usage not correct it, however tempting it may be. The most common terms I recall are "depressed mood" and "low mood". I think some googling is required and more thinking. Need to think about this a bit as it is a tricky problem. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:41, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Still thinking; but here are some preliminary thoughts. I'd like people who search the web for "depression" to find a page like this; one that explains in a few clear and simple words that depression (in the sense, depressed mood) may be the result of many very different causes, and that the best response to it varies according to the cause. Rather than look at the content of this article and ask "what is the best common name for this content?" I prefer to ask, "When a person looks for depression, what should they find?" I'll keep thinking.


 * I'm sure enough can be said about unhappiness and misery to justify an article on each. And I think we're agreed that there is a great muddle in the taxonomy of negative feeling, and that many of the terms used in this field represent distinct classes of feeling, probably represented cortically in different centres. (Despair does feel qualitatively different from simple misery. It may be misery mingled with hopelessness.) At any rate, if such a taxonomy is out there, someone should get abreast of it and we would be doing the world a favour if we could make that plain here, on Wikipedia. I haven't followed your links yet, but will comment when I have. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 07:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Nothing on treatment or coping
I'm a little surprised that there is nothing here on treatment of depression or ways to cope. It doesn't have to be a how-to guide, just to touch on various ways professionals suggest to cope with depression. People shouldn't have to go to the Major Depressive Disorder page to learn about how people deal with minor depression.--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 09:03, 28 June 2012 (UTC)


 * For a few years now this article has functioned as a clearing-house or signpost, to, in as few words as possible, explain the various manifestations and etiologies of the mood and point the reader to the article/s that suit their interest. With regard to treatment, the best way to deal with depressed mood due to (a) hypothyroidism (b) being dumped (c) bipolar disorder and (d) hepatitis C medication are all very different, and applying an intervention helpful in one situation (say, psychotherapy which can help dysthymia) to the wrong condition (say hypothyroidism) may be ineffective or worse. And even the ideal treatment for depression associated with different psychiatric disorders seems to vary from syndrome to syndrome, too. To do justice to the question of treatment, I think it's best to leave that to the individual articles addressing the individual etiologies or syndromes.


 * But that's just my view, and I would welcome your further thoughts. In Australia, and I suppose elsewhere, this article lies close to the top of the Google results for "depression" so it's important it serves the reader as well as we can manage. That may mean it acting as an efficient sign-post, or something else. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 02:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I see that I am not the first person to believe this page needs a section on treatment, which I have added and you, Anthonyhcole, have now deleted twice. Your stated rationale is that it is inappropriate to include a section on treatments, since treatments vary based on cause. Short of correcting an underlying problem which has led to depression (as in the case of hypothyroidism), this is not the case. The standard of care for mood disturbance that cannot be corrected by treating an underlying medical cause directly is psychiatric medication and/or psychotherapy. And the literature shows very clearly that psychotherapy is effective for improving quality of life in patients experiencing depression regardless of cause -- including grief, loss, cancer, hep c, etc. Furthermore, it makes no sense to have an article on depression that covers causes and incidence with no mention of treatment. This doesn't need to be a whole page on treatment of depression, but I have added well-cited text providing an overview of the treatments which have been shown effective, and there is no reason for you to remove it. If you would like to add more details on how treatment might be affected by differing diagnoses, you are more than welcome to. But I would ask that you not simply delete the whole section because you have decided that for some reason it doesn't fit on the page -- because it clearly does. David Godot, MA, LPC (talk) 15:30, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Seeking Treatment
I also think it is important to note that two thirds of people who have depression do not seek help. This shows that depression is a never ending cycle. What do you think?

Deficiency of light
Thank you, 75.3.138.78, for this contribution I have moved mention of SAD to the section on psychiatric syndromes because the science is presently unsettled regarding the contribution of light to the seasonal pattern, and "seasonal affective disorder" is presently a descriptor of the course of an illness (bipolar, MDD), rather than a discrete illness. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 20:59, 25 August 2012 (UTC)


 * You are confusing me. Are you saying that SAD doesn't exist stand-alone, but only appears in illnesses such as bipolar & MDD?  --Hordaland (talk) 21:57, 25 August 2012 (UTC)


 * That's my present wafer-thin understanding, based on the lead of Seasonal affective disorder which cites "Lurie, Stephen J.; et al. (November 2006). 'Seasonal Afective Disorder'. American Family Physician 74 (9): 1521–4.." which apparently reflects the DSM. If that's wrong, feel free to fix it. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 23:02, 25 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Production the serotonin, low level of which is responsible for depression, is determinedly linked the amount of light human's eyes being exposed. This kind of depression may  follow, but doe's not necessarily follow seasonal pattern.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.132.30 (talk) 20:10, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The deficiency of light might lead to the development of Seasonal affective disorder -- a type of depression known as winter depression, winter blues, summer depression, summer blues, or seasonal depression.
 * WebMD: Seasonal Affective Disorder - Topic Overview
 * Winter blues : everything you need to know to beat seasonal affective disorder / Norman E. Rosenthal. New York : Guilford Press, c2006.
 * --75.3.132.30 (talk) 20:15, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't trust WebMD on this, when there are scholarly articles in peer-reviewed journals that cover this topic. In health-related articles, Wikipedia prefers the kind of sources described in this guideline. What page/s are you referring to in Rosenthal, and can you copy here what he says that supports your statements? --Anthonyhcole (talk) 09:07, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I again need to borrow this book I used to read from public library. I will try to do this. The book tells that this kind of depression is caused by deficiency of light the human's eyes are exposed since light plays critical role in the production of serotonin, low level of which is responsible for this kind of depression. Not necessarily this kind of depression manifests itself in fall or winter time of season.--75.3.120.4 (talk) 21:37, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've started reading some recent reviews. There is controversy regarding SAD's existence as a distinct syndrome. It's not recognised as anything other than a descriptor of the course of MDD by the DSM-IV or ICD-10, and the field seems to be dominated by a relatively small and vocal group of theorists including Rosenthal, the inventor of the separate syndrome idea. The evidence for bright light therapy seems to be seriously compromised by the lack of adequate placebo control. The effect of bright light therapy is no more significant than the effect of antidepressants, whose effect is barely distinguishable from placebo. All up, I'd like us to be very careful in our characterisation of SAD; and very careful in our discussion of any posited effect of bright light therapy/low light exposure on mood. I'll keep reading. Input from others would be most welcome. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 01:51, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * At least, a few words that production of serotonin is linked to the level of light that falls on eyes must be included in the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.120.4 (talk) 01:42, 5 September 2012 (UTC)


 * So the mood, depression (ie: sadness), is also caused by low serotonin levels, as is depression (the clinical condition)? It seems to me that some people posting on this Talk Page blur the two concepts that the note at the top of the page warns against. If they are so alike as the comment just above states, then perhaps there shouldn't have two separate articles, but one with separate sections? Please clarify. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 03:05, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

For psychiatric disorders ..., see:
A new editor started ambitiously to list types of depression: bipolar, major etc etc, and then I understood there was a need for a "For psychiatric disorders ..., see:" - tag. So I am very much in favor of such a tag, however, it's a bit long the way it is now. Lova Falk    talk   09:07, 4 November 2012 (UTC)


 * How do you feel about the hatnote pointing just to MDD and Dysthymia, since only depressed mood and those two syndromes are usually called simply "depression" ("depression" never refers to the bipolar syndromes, or any other psychiatric syndromes – if it is used in relation to the bipolar or other syndromes it is referring to the mood, not the syndrome)? Maybe:


 * --Anthonyhcole (talk) 09:36, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I would prefer Mood disorder rather than Major depressive disorder, because in mood disorder, apart from refering to major depressive disorder, there is also this list with atypical depression, melancholic depression, Psychotic major depression etc etc.   Lova Falk     talk   09:56, 4 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I see. Sold. I've reverted myself. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 10:01, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Hereditary / genetic basis
There should be mention of the hereditary component of depression. http://www.nhs.uk/news/2011/05May/Pages/genetic-link-to-depression-found.aspx

Breen G, Todd Webb B, Butler AW, et al. A Genome-Wide Significant Linkage for Severe Depression on Chromosome 3: The Depression Network Study. Am J Psychiatry Published May 15, 2011 46.208.86.66 (talk) 20:19, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

"Women are at higher risk than men to experience depression."
If we look at the depression page we get the quoted fact 'Women are at higher risk than men to experience depression.'

If we go to the suicide page we get 'The rate of suicide is far higher in men than in women, with males worldwide three to four times more likely to kill themselves than females'

Is there just a slight possibility that among other factors actually men are hiding depression more?! I realize that's not encyclopedic... but I think something might be missing here! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.0.114.138 (talk • contribs) 23:43, 4 December 2012‎
 * Could be! However, lots of other explanations are possible. For instance: More women than men experience depression, but those men who experience depression, have a more severe one than women. Or: When depressed, women tend to talk with a therapist, men tend to commit suicide. Etc, etc. So what you need is good review that discusses the scientific studies of this phenomenon...  Lova Falk     talk   10:58, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Women attempt suicide much more frequently than men, but men's attempts succeed at a far higher rate, mostly due to more lethal means. David Godot, MA, LPC (talk) 15:59, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Treatment section
Presently this article doesn't address treatment, on the basis that treatment will vary according to the cause or associated condition. The treatment for low mood due to hypothyroidism is, I think, resolution of the hypothyroidism, and I've seen no evidence that it yields to talk therapy or antidepressants. I've seen no evidence that depressed mood due to hepatitis C medication is effectively treated by anything other than completion of the course of treatment. Claims about the efficacy of drug, cognitive or behavioural interventions in one psychiatric syndrome, say major depressive disorder or dysthymia, cannot simply be assumed to be true for all instances of depressed mood. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 02:13, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree!  Lova Falk     talk   13:44, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * My training is in health psychology and I assure you that antidepressants and psychotherapy are routinely used in the treatment of subclinical depression and depression secondary to medical causes. The DSM diagnoses in these cases would be Depressive Disorder NOS (311) and Mood Disorder Due To A General Medical Condition (293.83). See also my comments above. I have added additional text to clarify that in the case of a medical condition, resolving the condition is the first-line treatment. I stand by my assertion that this article needs a section on Treatment. Please feel free to add to this section to provide clarifications regarding any potential treatment conditions you are concerned with. David Godot, MA, LPC (talk) 15:45, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Here, your training and titles don't matter. It's all about sources and reaching consensus.  Lova Falk     talk   17:54, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Here's a source describing the standard of care for depression presenting as a part of hepatitis C treatment (since it has been used as a specific example here) as the combined use of antidepressant medications and psychotherapy. David Godot, MA, LPC (talk) 19:08, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You are quite correct! Face-smile.svg  Lova Falk     talk   19:17, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out the New York state guideline for the management of hepatitis C. I've just read http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22878466 and see that it is recommended to treat depression due to hepatitis C treatment with antidepressants and psychotherapy in Europe too. David's contribution reads: In cases where depression is caused by an underlying medical condition, such as hypothyroidism, the treatment of the causative condition will generally resolve mood symptoms. In other cases of depressed mood beyond what is expectable given life circumstances (e.g. in the case of bereavement,) treatment with antidepressant medications is the standard of care. However, meta-analyses consistently reveal that these medicines do not induce a clinically significant improvement beyond the placebo effect for most depressed patients.[ 30 ] Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is superior to medication in the treatment of depression,[ 31 ] and studies have shown that the addition of clinical hypnosis improves the effectiveness of CBT.[ 32 ]


 * 30.
 * 31.
 * 32.

I'm concerned about: "In other cases of depressed mood beyond what is expectable given life circumstances (e.g. in the case of bereavement,) treatment with antidepressant medications is the standard of care." This needs to be supported by a strong source that conforms to Wikipedia's medical sources guideline, WP:MEDRS. "...studies have shown that the addition of clinical hypnosis improves the effectiveness of CBT." This assertion is supported by a primary source, a report of a small trial which describes itself as "the first controlled comparison of hypnotherapy with a well-established psychotherapy for depression..." Efficacy claims in Wikipedia articles need to be supported by strong secondary sources, per WP:MEDRS. I don't think "Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is superior to medication in the treatment of depression" is a clear and accurate statement of the findings of the cited review. Due to these concerns, I have removed David's text for now, and invite him and others to respond to my concerns. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 05:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Depression (mood)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Depression (mood)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ReferenceA": From Pessimism: Camus, Albert The Myth of Sisyphus From Seasonal affective disorder:  From Attention:  From Anxiety disorder:  From Menopause:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 22:27, 25 February 2013 (UTC)


 * None of these seem relevant to the Prevention section so I have removed the  tag. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email)  04:10, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Wikinews too new?
From Portal:Current events/2013 February 28 ... In The Lancet, genetics links between five major psychiatric disorders: autism, ADHD, bipolar disorder, depression, and schizophrenia per recent study.
 * 10.1016/S0140-6736(08)61345-8

99.109.125.252 (talk) 01:35, 2 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi 99.109.125.252! Thank you for telling us, but yes, it is too new - that is, not confirmed by other studies and described in a review.  Lova Falk     talk   09:14, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

"Dejection"
The usage of is under discussion, see Talk:Dejection (disambiguation) -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 12:06, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

sections on assessment and incidence don't belong here..?
The assessment and incidence sections seem to be about psychiatric condition, not depressed mood, and their presence adds to the confusion readers experience in this article. I don't know that makes sense to talk about incidence of a symptom. I suggest that we move these sections to the clinical depression article. What do you think? Jytdog (talk) 19:33, 12 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I haven't looked at the sources in those sections recently. Do they address depressed mood (the symptom), mood disorders in general, or specific syndromes? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 13:09, 13 May 2013 (UTC)


 * condition. they of course talk about the mood as it is one of the symptoms but they are focused on the condition. Jytdog (talk) 13:11, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Today I deleted the following:


 * "About 44% of American college students report feeling symptoms of depression. (ref) (/ref) This data suggests that traditional college aged students may be at high risk for depression or depressed mood."
 * REASON: The provided source is a) focused on the mental health condition, not the symptom; and b) no where does it bring data about "college age" people - adolescents are grouped, as are all those over 18. No ~18-22 grouping.


 * "Each year 44 colleges and universities use random sampling to administer the American College Health Association's (ACHA) National College Health Assessment (NCHA) survey to 28,000 students. This assessment surveys students' health status and behavior, including depression and depressive symptoms, for their previous academic year. Based on the findings, the rates of students reporting having been diagnosed with depression have increased from 10% in 2000 (ref name="Reference Group Data Report 2000")(/ref) to 21% in 2011.(ref name="acha-ncha.org")(/ref) In 2011, female students reported depressive symptoms, including 22% feeling that things were hopeless; 23% feeling lonely; and 26% feeling very sad within the preceding two weeks(ref name="Reference Group Data Report 2000"/) to 21% in 2011.(ref name="acha-ncha.org"/)  Women are at higher risk than men to experience depression.(ref)(/ref)"
 * REASON: 1) This violates WP:OR, and in particular, it is WP:SYN.   It takes 2 primary sources and directly compares them.  On Wikipedia we need secondary sources to do that.   A review article on gender differences is provided, but since it dates from 2001 it cannot serve to compare a study done in 2000 with one done in 2011.  2) Because we have no secondary source discussing these findings, we have no way to assign them appropriate weight.   Unsure to me why we should have all this space devoted to college age students, as opposed to children or adolescents or adults or geriatric populations.


 * "Offenders have very high rates of mental ill health with recent estimates suggesting that between 50-70% of individuals serving custodial sentences have some diagnosable unipolar depression.(ref)((cite isbn|9781906633059|noedit))(/ref)  The way depression is managed in prisons has also been the topic of much discussion.(ref)(/ref) An American  study  of  5,305  Texan  prisoners with a diagnosed depressive disorder noted considerable variation in prescribing patterns and use of psychosocial  interventions between prison instituitions.(ref)(/ref) The study showed that just over a fifth of patients with depression remained untreated despite a confirmed diagnosis. Similar concerns have been voiced in the UK by John Podmore, the former Head of Community Prisons and Transitional Facilities, noting that, 'Even the best prisons with the best regimes and most committed staff will struggle to create an environment where anxiety and depression do not flourish.'(ref)(/ref)"
 * REASON - this is all focused on the mental health condition, not the symptom


 * "It is important that clinicians/healthcare workers working with patients within the criminal justice system, assess and manage patients with depression effectively and ensure that underlying prejudices that they may have do not prejudice the care they provide.(ref)(/ref) According to UK national clinical guidelines, both pharmacological and non-pharmacological treatments should be provided to incarcerated patients in the same manner as all other patients.(ref)(/ref)"
 * REASON: This violates WP:NOT - specifically, WP:NOTGUIDE.

That's it. Jytdog (talk) 16:42, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Also, I merged the sections on assessment and prevention into the major depressive disorder article. Those two sections were all about the mental health condition, not the mood. Jytdog (talk) 17:53, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Nutrition and Depression
I've just removed this from the article: Food and mood have a correlation. In a study published in the Public Health Nutrition journal, the results revealed that consumers of fast food are 51% more likely to develop depression compared to those who eat little or no fast food. Those who consumed junk food were also less active, single, and smokers.

SAMe is a chemical that has been known to help alleviate depression. SAMe stands for S-adenosyl methionine, a naturally occurring molecule found throughout the human body, with high concentrations in the liver, adrenal glands and brain. SAMe has been used as an antidepressant when other prescription drugs have not worked.

There is also evidence to suggest that Vitamin C can boost mood and reduce psychological stress. Vitamin C rapidly improved the emotional state of acutely hospitalized patients who were admitted to Montreal’s Jewish General Hospital. People who eat fast food and do not consume a lot of vegetables are at a higher risk for depression, and a Vitamin C supplement would be helpful in alleviating depression and making a person feel healthier and happier. Vitamin C supplement use is associated with lower heart disease and cancer risk, and may reduce inflammation and CRP level. Doses of 500 mg twice a day lowers blood pressure by 10 points in mild hypertension and may increase happiness

I'm not happy with the quality of the sources. Wikipedia health-related assertions must be supported by sources that conform to this guideline: WP:MEDRS. I'm not convinced this article needs anything on nutrition, but if it does, this isn't it. If anything is to go in here about nutrition, it will need to reflect what the very best and latest systematic reviews say on the subject. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 18:43, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * agreed 100%. this section doesn't belong in this article in any case (mood, not disorder). thanks! Jytdog (talk) 19:11, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Self help
I object to the current thrust of "Treatment", as it relies solely on "professional" help, leaving no mention of well known self help techniques. It might help to review the following article [] and then review the article references. My addition is referenced by the linked topic text/references, or I can provide review references.32cllou (talk) 02:00, 7 February 2014 (UTC) Here's a cool supporting review []32cllou (talk) 02:26, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * you are completely missing the point. This article is not about a medical condition that needs treatment, professional or self.  It is about low mood. Jytdog (talk) 02:30, 7 February 2014 (UTC)


 * The article is Depression (mood), and includes the section "Psychiatric Syndromes". Psychiatric syndromes are more likely to need (benefit from) professional care for successful treatment.  Following that section ("Psychiatric Syndromes") is "Treatment".


 * The first sentence in the first paragraph is about mood. The sub-section is still Treatment.  You are missing the point of the article subsection.


 * It's odd (improper) for you to write "A depressed mood may not require any professional treatment", because you introduce the idea of clinical and or medical treatments in a sentence about simple depressed mood.


 * "Self help" was not an appropriate way to introduce those four common natural ways of potentially moderating depression. See my revised text, which is supported by a comprehensive review reference.


 * Note, med schools in the 60's taught those four (wake, light, diet, exercise) as primary approaches to treating depression. SSRI medications hadn't been discovered.32cllou (talk) 00:48, 9 February 2014 (UTC)


 * If you read carefully, the section on "Psychiatric syndromes" is about syndromes that feature prolonged or severe depressed mood as a symptom - this article is not about any of those syndromes. The place where you want to try to add this matter is Management of depression which is about treatment of Major depressive disorder and other depressive syndromes.    The article (not "me") states accurately that  "A depressed mood may not require any professional treatment" because this is true - the mood itself is not a disorder;  the syndromes that feature prolonged depressed mood are.    A disease/condition/syndrome is not a symptom. They are different things.  A lot of people that come through here do not understand this at first, and it has to be explained.  I am trying to explain it to you now.  Please hear me, and understand it.  Have a look through the Talk section above and through the archives, and you will see what I mean.  thanks. Jytdog (talk) 00:56, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Especially, please see note the in bold typeface at the very top of this page. Jytdog (talk) 01:11, 9 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I do read carefully, the article is "Depression (mood)", includes specifically clinical depression, and also a "Treatment" section, that even introduces "professional treatment". You objection therefore makes no sense.


 * I agree the main discussion of natural methods belongs in the management of depression sub article. Simply listing the cited (review) four primary natural ways of moderating mild to severe depression is what you do in an introduction (to Treatment and the Management of Depression).


 * PS, I will no longer use bold. I didn't know it meant I was not being civil.


 * You really can't say "professional treatment" in the first sentence. I did just read the typeface at the very top.32cllou (talk) 01:16, 9 February 2014 (UTC)


 * If you read the references, you'd know people can moderate their moods by using those four techniques.32cllou (talk) 01:18, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry to do this, but please read WP:SUMMARY. When there is a subarticle as there is for Management of depression, the short paragraph in the main article (this one) should be pretty much a copy/paste of the lead of the sub article.    The lead of that article should be a great summary of that article.   So again, please add your content on the four techniques to the body of that article.  If it then rises to the lead of that article, it can come into this article.  That is how it works.  Thanks for talking!  (note, on the "Bold" thing, please see my response to you on my Talk page)  Jytdog (talk) 01:26, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I've read wp:summary, and generally understand encyclopedia writing. I will re-read summary. But, there generally is no requirement that the main (intro) be a copy /paste of the sub! The sub gives detail introduced in the main. You need a sub if there's too much tangent detail for the relevance in the main.

We agree we're talking about mood, so why did you again write "professional treatment".32cllou (talk) 01:41, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Finished reading wp:summary again. My additions in the main are fitting, needed, and are well supported. If you insist, I'll make minor changes to the management of depression subsection so some of the language is more similar to that in the main.32cllou (talk) 01:47, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * You seem to think that I wrote this article. I contributed to it but no one person wrote it.  I have been helping of late paring down the content that was focused on disorders and keeping content about disorders out.   And you just drove me to get rid of the last bit.  The treatment section is indeed inappropriate and causes too much confusion,  and is now gone. Jytdog (talk) 01:49, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I assume that when an editor reverts a sentence (and also one that has been formally specifically objected to), they basically own that sentence.
 * Did you delete the management sub too? Otherwise, how do I find treatment options?32cllou (talk) 01:54, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * a depressed mood doesn't need treatment, no more than a joyous mood needs treatment. Moods don't need treatment.   I am guessing that the section appeared here because too many people were confused that the article was about a disorder and editors got sick of it and added a stub.   But now it is going the other way.  So goodbye stub!  Jytdog (talk) 01:59, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * nobody owns anything on wikipedia. in fact trying to WP:OWN any article is one of the cardinal sins around here. Jytdog (talk) 02:01, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * but really, bottom line, the right tree to bark up, is Management of depression. That is where treatment is discussed in wikipedia. Jytdog (talk) 02:04, 9 February 2014 (UTC)


 * It is poor editing to revert incorrect text, especially if you're trying to not talk about professional treatment.
 * I do not agree with "goodbye stub" to the extent that it excludes relevant information (regarding ways to potentially elevate mood). Your change leaves nothing in the huge gap between depressed mood and "Major depressive disorder".  Many (most?) people lie in between, and are now left uninformed.  Have the blues are want to read about that; not a major depressive disorder?  We are trying to add information to help moderate mood.  I guess we don't need a specific treatment section.32cllou (talk) 02:12, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Count the words in the article, and you still find most refer to major (not mood) depressive disorders!32cllou (talk) 02:25, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * as per my edit note: article doesn't mention "light therapy" at all and to the extent it talks about sleep, it says that irregular sleep is a contributing factor and getting regular sleep is a good thing.  you struggled mightily to not use the word "treat" but that is still what you were talking about. Jytdog (talk) 12:23, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Those four lifestyle techniques are easy to support (with review references); see the new references. Your objection to ""treat does not make any sense at all. Again, the thrust of most of the words in the (you call it) mood article if major disorder stuff.32cllou (talk) 01:20, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * PLEASE stop adding references about treating the Major depressive disorder. This is getting to the point of WP:IDHT. Your initial reference is ~marginal~ in discussing mood but the two new ones are very clearly focused on treatment of the disorder.  Jytdog (talk) 01:33, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Get over your objection to "treat". Or you must generally stop mostly leading readers to major illness, and professional treatment, in the "mood" article.


 * Both of those new reviews discuss wake and light techniques in the context of self regulation, which is the point of someone trying to moderate their own mood. A mood they may prefer to moderate if they had the knowledge.  That information belongs in Depression (Mood).  Again citing wp:idht (regarding "treat") makes no sense in an article mostly about people who probably should seek professional treatment.  Count the words.32cllou (talk) 01:45, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * No longer responding. You are now solidly in WP:IDHT. Jytdog (talk) 20:30, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Wrong name
I've had this article on my watchlist for a long time and I've seen arguments similar to the one above again and again. The regulars have to explain again and again, more or less patiently, that this article is not supposed to be about a disorder. They feel that new editors don't "get it".

Well, in that case, I'd suspect that the vast majority of the readers of this article don't "get it" either. MDD is very often referred to as, simply, depression.

IMO this article has the wrong name. I think a small change in its name, to Depressed mood, might reduce or eliminate the misunderstandings. --Hordaland (talk) 04:32, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * You write above "this article is not supposed to be about a disorder", but the majority of the words in the article are about MDD issues. I doubt removing the parenthesis around mood will change the strange bent of this article (about mood, but most of the words are about MDD and medical considerations / professional treatment).


 * Think about a reader searching the word Depression. They find this Depression "mood" ("but not about MDD or treatment") article, and also the MDD article (only those two).  There is nothing in between?  What if you have a serious case of the blues and seek information about moderating those feelings?  If this article is to only be about depressed mood, never needing moderation (~treatment), the reader has only MDD and mostly medical information.


 * Before recent edits in Depression (Mood), a "Treatment" section ended with a paragraph basically referring readers to professional help. An editor objects to my addition of natural ways to moderate mood, and deletes the whole "Treatment" section.  Natural methods of "Treatment" (of the blues, not just MDD) should be included in this article.  Not treatment for a "disorder", but moderating lifestyle factors.32cllou (talk) 19:21, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * See the last edit fix. I would like to move on and add information and references to those four wiki article linked techniques.32cllou (talk) 19:57, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * PS, I'd like to add this web page [] to External Links. I know it's a newsletter, but it's written by a medical DR and it is very well referenced.  The information is well supported by reviews I provided for the prior fix.32cllou (talk) 20:06, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * It was not my intention to join in the present (section above) discussion. Your comments belong up there, not here.  Hordaland (talk) 23:59, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Most of my talk was responding to your request to change the article name. That action which would have left a larger gap in information about depression (assuming content would be changed to attend to the new name).  You intended to effectively halt the discussion about adding "treatment" (moderating techniques) to the article by changing it's name to depressed mood.32cllou (talk) 19:59, 15 February 2014 (UTC)


 * "Depression" is often used in the literature to refer to either or both major depressive disorder and dysthymia and to feelings and behaviours associated with some events, drugs, conditions, etc. We list all the features of MDD and dysthymia except the time course and intensity. What we describe is also the thing that sometimes descends on people with bipolar disorder, and is a frequent companion of people with borderline personality disorder, and the bereaved, the sick and the lonely. I'd prefer that we just renamed this article, "Depression." --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 13:20, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Social
In a general clean-up recently, I excised the following.

"Women are more prone to depression and this could be explained by gender roles and norms attached to those roles. Women are expected to care for family and friends, but without strong, stable supportive relationships they are more susceptible to depressive symptoms."

- Podgornik, N 2012, ‘Depression - a sociocultural way of manifesting women's psychological crises’, Anthropological notebooks, vol. 18, no, 2, pp. 55-67

I can't recall why I removed it now, but whatever it was I was thinking was a mistake. I think we should have a section on the social causes/predisposers to depression. Sorry. I don't know much about social influence on depression. Has any research looked at depression rates in oppressed and despised minorities? If so, that should probably be covered. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 12:53, 9 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't see that you removed that; I see that McLennonSon removed it, and that SummerPhD reverted. As for including the material, of course it should be included. Flyer22 (talk) 13:22, 9 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Heh. Thanks. That's why I couldn't remember my motive. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 13:31, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

As it stands now, it is a copyright violation and needs to be re-written. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 13:48, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * It sure is. I've deleted it for now. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email)  21:05, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Diathesis-stress model
The diathesis-stress model has been applied by some theorists to depression. Should we have a section on that? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 12:53, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Drug use
In the section Drug use I added

Legal drug use Illegal drug use

Wikipedia editor named Formerly98 who follows my edits on Wikipedia removed the material with the WP:UNSOURCED reason. I don't know how to provide a reliable source for such common knowledge of there being legal and illegal drugs, drugs people use to alleviate depression .--Mark v1.0 (talk) 01:05, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi Mark, Can you tell me what the point is that you are trying to make? What are the specific drugs you are referring to as alleviating depression? thanks Formerly 98 (talk) 01:58, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Formerly 98. I just read that a Wikipedia editor is NOT supposed to copy and paste deleted text to the talk page, so I deleted most of it.

You ask for my point and what drugs people use to alleviate depression. I did not create the "Drug use" section. I read "This section requires expansion." next to"Drug use" so I though I would write a "legal" and "illegal drug" sections. I no longer contest the deletion you made.--Mark v1.0 (talk) 02:20, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Assessment and Diagnosis Sandbox Edits for Adolescent Depression
Hello all, I have made changes in my Sandbox about this topic focusing on evidence-based assessment and diagnosis. It would be great if people would look at it and leave comments on my talk page before I post it on the article.

The sandbox link can be found here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sftomlinson/sandbox).

I appreciate it! YenLingChen (talk) 20:10, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * see Talk:Autism_spectrum and see User_talk:YenLingChen and Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine Jytdog (talk) 13:13, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Depressed mood is a feature of Major Depression
There is no place where "depression" is catalogued as a feature of Major depressive disorder (MDD). Moreover, the DSM specifically puts "depressed mood" as a symptom of MDD. Without references, there is no reason to put depression instead of depressed mood as a symptom of MDD. James343e (talk) 15:20, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * See here and here for what James343e is referring to; as shown in those edits, I reverted James343e because he changed the WP:Lead sentence to start off with a WP:MOS Bold that is not the title of the article, and made it seem like we should only rely on what the DSM-5, a highly criticized manual, states. Also, regarding the line in question he is referring to... It currently relays: "Depression is a feature of some psychiatric syndromes such as major depressive disorder, but it may also be a normal reaction to life events such as bereavement, a symptom of some bodily ailments or a side effect of some drugs and medical treatments." Depression is indeed a feature of some psychiatric syndromes, whether one wants to call it depression or depression mood.


 * And, James343e, you did not sign your username correctly above, as seen by the timestamps here and here, which is why I changed your timestamp. All you have to do to sign your post is simply type four tildes (~), like this: . Flyer22 (talk) 15:37, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer Flyer22. According to you, depression is indeed a feature of MDD. The problem here is that you have no sources in your support. Wikipedia should pursue a neutral point of view, not the subjective opinion of the editors. I will put again depressed mood. If you prefer to put depression, please delete the reference to the DSM-V. The DSM-V does not claim that "depression" is a symptom of MDD. . James343e (talk) 17:59, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * , that is not what I stated. I cited the whole sentence. The sentence is not simply about MDD. I stated, "Depression is indeed a feature of some psychiatric syndromes, whether one wants to call it depression or depression mood." There is no need for me to provide any of the various, easily found, WP:Reliable sources for that matter. Furthermore, where is your proof that "depression mood" means something different than "depression"?; depression, as the lead states, "is a state of low mood and aversion to activity that can affect a person's thoughts, behavior, feelings and sense of well-being." That is why this article is titled Depression (mood). So you differentiating "depression" from "depression mood" in the way that you have once again makes sense, how? It has been discussed before at WP:Med that the DSM-5 uses different terms for the same disorders. Also, the way that you are defining WP:Neutral point of view is incorrect; do read that policy and understand it. I do abide by Wikipedia policies and guidelines, including the WP:Neutral point of view policy, not my subjective opinion. And rest assured that with several years of experience editing Wikipedia, I don't need anyone telling me how to edit it. Flyer22 (talk) 17:31, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

scope
I recently made an edit to Depression (mood) which was promptly reverted because my input was about the disorder. Once I realized this article is about the emotion rather than disorder I tried to make that more clear on the Depression disambiguation page, which was promptly reverted with the reason being "Depression (mood) may also refer to major depressive disorder, like the Depression (mood) article states. It covers all forms of depression". I see I am not the first one to be confused about the purpose of this article. In fact this article currently has multiple sentences referring to the disorder rather than the emotion so confusion still reins. Even in the talk page people are inquiring about a section on treatment, but I did not know emotions ever needed treatments, only disorders. It seems to me the best way to overcome the ongoing confusion is to combine this article with one about the disorder depression. If we take the information about the disorder out of this article it would be so short it would neatly fit into one section of one article which discusses how depression can be an emotion which lasts a few days but becomes a disorder if one does not come out of the mood after a period of time. I almost started a formal merge proposal but I also do not like the title of the main article on depression, mood disorder. The article on depression should be titled depression. If the article mood disorder is changed to be titled depression, I propose a merge. Jim Derby (talk) 14:01, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * HI, thanks for writing. I moved your comment into its own section per convention - I wanted to reply and couldn't find what you had written.  This issue has been discussed to death here. This article is about the symptom of depressed mood.  We have tried our best to idiot-proof it with the hat on the main page and the note in bold lettering at the top of this page, but there are always people who don't read and consider before they start editing.  I do not think a merge proposal would fly and neither would an AfD but you are free to try. Jytdog (talk) 15:24, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Jim Derby, you were reverted by Jytdog at the Depression (mood) article, with the statement "content is about major depressive disorder - this article is just about the mood; the key symptom of MDD, the article is not MDD itself." I reverted you at the Depression disambiguation page, stating, "Depression (mood) may also refer to major depressive disorder, like the Depression (mood) article states. It covers all forms of depression." So the reason that I reverted you is because the Depression (mood) article is about depression in general (meaning all forms of depression), and therefore includes major depressive disorder. In other words, the Depression (mood) article is an umbrella term article for the topic of depression. The article clearly includes major depressive disorder, and I don't see that it's a problem that it does, given what it states about the major depressive disorder connection. Your edit at the Depression disambiguation page made it seem like depression mood and major depressive disorder are unrelated, and that's why I took issue with it. If others are fine with your change to that page, then I will go along with it. Flyer22 (talk) 19:45, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Jytdog. Thanks for moving my comment per convention, I thought I was continuing a discussion on an existing topic. When you say "This issue has been discussed to death here" are you referring to the emotion vs. disorder issue? I will try to not take it personally that I added an inappropriate edit after others have tried to "idiot proof" the article; I think I am of average intelligence but I do have trouble with grammar. One reason it is not idiot proof is the hatnote may direct people to the article about one of the depressive disorders but the content of the article still covers content about the disorder, that is confusing. I can see the topic has been well discussed thus my bold proposal to merge as an ultimate solution.
 * Hi Flyer22. It seems clear to me that this article is intended to be about depression the emotion. It seems like you are directly contradicting this by saying it is an "...umbrella term article for the topic of depression." Was that depression the emotion, the disorder or both. If both, that is what I am proposing with a merge. What I wrote on the disambiguation page was:
 * "* Depression (mood), a state of low mood and aversion to activity not rising to the level of a mental disorder"
 * "* Several mood disorders are often simply called depression"
 * I am not sure how they do not seem related, maybe if I had used "mood disorder" in both lines? Jim Derby (talk) 23:28, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Jim Derby (last time pinging you to this discussion via WP:Echo because I assume you will check back here if you want to read replies), I don't see how I was not clear or how I've contradicted myself. I simply stated that the Depression (mood) article is about different types of depression, including major depressive disorder; it is. I don't see why the Depression (mood) article needs to be merged with the Major depressive disorder article; the first article addresses different types of depression and points people to articles about specific types of depression, while the latter is about a specific type of depression. We have many Wikipedia articles that are about a topic in general and point people to articles about a specific aspect of that topic. See the Autism spectrum article, for example. Flyer22 (talk) 23:39, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Jim, instead of going around in circles here, would you please just say in your words, what idea you want to add to Wikipedia (I read your edit; I am asking to say the idea here). Maybe I can help you get what you want, directly. Jytdog (talk) 23:40, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Flyer. I did not say you contradicted yourself, you are contradicting the bold note at the top of this talk page. The idea I am trying to convey is that the current mood disorder article is a much better umbrella article for depression as a disorder and that if the article depression (mood) should focus on depression the emotion than it has confusing content.Jim Derby (talk) 10:39, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not contradicting the note; the point that the note is making is that the Depression (mood) article is not the Major depressive disorder article. Yes, it says "[The Depression (mood) article] is not an article about the psychiatric disorder known as major depressive disorder, or 'clinical depression' or sometimes simply 'depression'." But, when I look at the Depression (mood) article, I feel that you are taking the word about in that note too strictly. What I meant by "the Depression (mood) article is about different types of depression, including major depressive disorder" is that it addresses different types of depression, pointing people to the articles about those types if they have articles. As for the Mood disorder article being "a much better umbrella article for depression as a disorder," I don't agree. Well, except for this section in that article. Depression mood concerns all of the types of depression that the Depression (mood) article mentions; that's why they are mentioned in this article. Not to mention that depression is usually referred to as depression instead of as mood disorder. Both the Depression (mood) and Mood disorder articles should mention these types of depression. It's common for Wikipedia articles to share substantial content without needing to be merged. Flyer22 (talk) 10:53, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Jim. Thanks for inviting me to comment. I know more about psychology (though I'm no expert) than I do about psychiatry and I'm pretty sure in psychology, at least, "emotion" is used to describe an affective and motivational state that is relatively ephemeral - minutes or (at most) hours - and "mood" is applied to longer term feelings. So, I would expect a feeling that lasts a day or more to be called a mood, rather than an emotion.


 * Presently, this article is a very brief and (hopefully) readable outline of all the well-known types and causes of depressed mood including drugs, somatic illnesses, mental illnesses and life events. The idea is to direct the reader as quickly and efficiently to whichever of the 10-20 specific articles answer their question/s. Mood disorder only covers the mental illnesses characterised by depressed mood, so making it the primary article on depression or depressed mood would involve adding more content (about treatment-related depression, life events, drugs, physical illnesses, and mental illnesses other than mood disorders that often feature depression) than (per WP:WEIGHT) is really warranted in that article.


 * I think of this as a simple, clear introduction to the topic and a signpost to all the relevant more detailed articles on the topic. Being short, in my opinion, is a virtue in this article.


 * That is not to say I can't be persuaded that the topic can be better arranged. But your argument so far hasn't done that. By all means continue this discussion if you believe we could be serving our readers better with another arrangement. Don't be put off by Jytdog and Flyer22 who work very, very hard on our medical content here and are sometimes a little short on patience. Given that there is a fairly robust consensus among the regular editors of this and related articles favouring the status quo, it would probably be best to try to win us over by argument now, rather than continuing to boldly edit the articles. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email)  04:14, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * that is kind of you Anthony and accurate - I am too harsh sometimes. Jim I offered to help you above; if you want to ignore that you are free to, but there it was. Jytdog (talk) 04:26, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks Anthony. Your distinction between mood and emotion helps me. In light of your comments above I think it would clarify the purpose of this article if the notice at the top of this page read: Please note that this is the Wikipedia article that is an umbrella term for depression which has three aspects: the emotion lasting minutes or hours, mood lasting up to a few days and disorders possibly lasting years. It is not an article specifically about any one psychiatric disorder such as major depressive disorder also called "clinical depression" or sometimes simply "depression". Please add content specific to that or any other psychiatric syndrome (such as dysthymia, bipolar disorder, etc) to its respective article.
 * The way I originally filtered reading the bold note was that this article is about "...depressed mood as an everyday emotion..." and is "...not an article about the psychiatric disorder[s]...". It is very important to note the s I added here which expands the statement about the article from not being about the three disorders listed to all depression disorders. This may explain my difference with Flyer22 where I said she was contradicting the bold note.
 * I think of a general (umbrella) article as giving a complete overview of the topic so I would expect to see most of the concepts represented in Category:Depression (psychology) and Category:Mood disorders at least mentioned, perhaps modeled after the article autism spectrum. Jim Derby (talk) 13:36, 11 February 2015‎ (UTC)


 * This article is currently not an umbrella article. It is an article focused on depressed mood (please see that article), which is the chief symptom of Major depressive disorder - which is a Mood disorder (please read that).  It is different from Sadness, which is an emotion (please read that).  They are all distinct subjects.  I oppose changing the scope to make this an umbrella article. Jytdog (talk) 14:13, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I just read the archives of this talk page for the first time. I see that this article clearly started out to be only about the mood which has fifty synonyms on Thesaurus.com such as sad, bummed out, blue, in the dumps, etc. Many attempts have been made to keep it that way. My suggestion that this be an umbrella article was part of my attempt to create discussion to help clarify what the article is about because that is not clear and hasn't been clear for a long time resulting in this ongoing topic of discussion. I now see it is supposed to be only about the mood and I agree with Jytdog to not make it into an umbrella article. So, the task at hand is to clarify the article. Here are some problems:
 * 1. Some content implies or is directly about the disorder such as "People with depressed mood can feel sad, anxious, empty, hopeless, helpless, worthless, guilty, irritable or restless. They may lose interest in activities that were once pleasurable, experience loss of appetite or overeating, have problems concentrating, remembering details or making decisions, and may contemplate, attempt or commit suicide. Insomnia, excessive sleeping, fatigue, aches, pains, digestive problems or reduced energy may also be present." which is referenced to an article about the disorder not the mood. I have not researched this but I believe people who are feeling blue do not generate such strong signs and symptoms, particularly suicide.
 * 2. There is discussion of assessment and treatment of the disorder in this article. The mood does not rise to the level of needing assessment or treatment.
 * 3. The article is mis-categorized. It should not be in any psychology categories or in the emotion category, it should only be in Category:Feeling
 * 4. The talk page is mis-categorized. In my opinion the mood does not rise to the level of being in categories of suicide or death and should not be a high or top importance article. This mis-categorization implies the disorder, not the mood.
 * 5. There is not an umbrella article for depression spectrum disorders on Wikipedia, a major oversight in my opinion.
 * Some things that should be done are:
 * 1. Add a discussion of what a mood is compared with an emotion and what primary emotions come into play to create this mood.
 * 2. Discuss how a mood is different than a personality trait
 * 3. Give several synonyms and discuss any technical differences.
 * 4. If sadness is different than this mood, clearly define the difference.(If depressed mood cannot be shown to be substantially different than sadness than I question for the need for this article.)
 * 5. Emphasize the short-term, normal, healthy nature of this mood. Explain how longer term depressed mood due to medical conditions or medications does not rise to the level of the disorder (if that is truly the case).
 * 6. Discuss how depression is different than melancholia
 * 7. Clarify the bold note to read: '''Please note that this is the Wikipedia article that covers depressed mood as an everyday mood, a subject in normal psychology. It is not an article about any of the depression disorders such as major depressive disorder, also called "clinical depression" or often simply "depression". Please add content specific to that or any other psychiatric syndrome (such as dysthymia, bipolar disorder, etc) to its respective article which can be found in Category:Depression (psychology).
 * That is enough for now. Jim Derby (talk) 03:14, 13 February 2015 (UTC)


 * My explanation that the Depression (mood) article is an umbrella article for depression is similar to what Anthonyhcole stated above; I see the matter like Anthonyhcole sees is. To me, it is an umbrella article for depression, and I don't see that it needs merging or significant changes. It can always do with improvement, however. I don't understand how you are separating the mood from major depressive disorder when the two are significantly tied together. Depression mood is significantly tied to all the types of depressions that are mentioned in the article; that's why they're in the article. Flyer22 (talk) 03:22, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Flyer22. Separation of the discussion of the mood from the disorders are based on WP:RELAR, articles are about a topic, not a term. The mood is a different topic than the disabilities even though they are closely related. However, I looked at the editing history of the article and from the beginning this article has discussed both the mood and the disorders. Also, there are a very large number of articles which link here, perhaps approximately 3000, many of which seem to be linking in the context of the disorders. It may be better to keep with tradition and discuss both topics (mood and disorder) here, but much more clearly and thoroughly. Jim Derby (talk) 13:37, 15 February 2015 (UTC)


 * When I stated "umbrella term article" in my "19:45, 9 February 2015 (UTC)" post above, I technically meant "umbrella article," which is why I used the latter afterward; I did not mean that the article should only be about the terms. I am well aware of WP:Not a dictionary, though WP:Not a dictionary notes that Wikipedia does have articles about terms. I linked to the Umbrella term article because that is the only Wikipedia article that gets across what I mean by "umbrella article." The term depression is an umbrella term, and covers different types of depression, as this discussion shows. Regarding WP:RELAR's statement that "Further, in encyclopedias it is perfectly proper to have separate articles for each different definition of a term; unlike dictionaries, a single encyclopedia article covers a topic, not a term.", we obviously already have separate articles regarding depression. In the cases that we do not, it's likely because those terms do not need a Wikipedia article. WP:RELAR is an aspect of the WP:Content forking guideline, and WP:Content forking should ideally only be done when needed. Like its WP:POVFORK section states, "The generally accepted policy is that all facts and major points of view on a certain subject should be treated in one article. As Wikipedia does not view article forking as an acceptable solution to disagreements between contributors, such forks may be merged, or nominated for deletion." Flyer22 (talk) 13:57, 15 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I can now see clearly that this article should be an umbrella article for depression covering the spectrum from being down in the dumps to the most severe depressive disorder. Another way I have looked into what it should be about is to see what topic the foreign language links discuss. The German article is an excellent example because it has achieved good article status. It mostly covers the disorders because they are complicated, but it discusses the mood. It is what I would expect an umbrella article about depression should look like. Everyone should be able to see the difference between that article and this one. Jim Derby (talk) 16:16, 15 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I understand that you feel that way, but local WP:CONSENSUS is not with you. At this point I recommend that you either drop the stick, or propose an RfC to gain wider community input on your ideas about the scope of this article.  If you go the RfC route, I recommend you propose the RfC before actually launching it. Jytdog (talk) 16:35, 15 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Jytdog, your recommendation to "...drop the stick or request an RfC..." is interesting. After a lack of input from other editors and much reflection I think I will let Wikipedia down, be selfish and drop the stick. If people keep adding content you do not think is appropriate I hope you can step back and see the forest through the trees that the scope of this article is still not clearly defined in the lead or in the bold note on the talk page which in itself tells of a problem with the lead. I am discouraged from adding content to any depression related article even though I can see some areas for improvement. Jim Derby (talk) 13:03, 19 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The RfC process is exactly how we get "input from other editors". If you do an RfC you might find the community thinks like you do.  What there is no point in, is continuing to beat a dead horse with the present set of people, who are not convinced. So yes, open the question up to the community, or yield (ideally gracefully) to local WP:CONSENSUS.  That choice and attitude is fundamental to how this whole place works.  It never has to get emotional.  And you don't need to disparage other people. I see the forest and the trees - i just see them differently than you - and more on point, I think the current organization is the most encyclopedic and brings the most clarity, in a field where there is a lack of clarity in public discourse.   Jytdog (talk) 13:31, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Wrong Doing Causes Despair
Wrong Doing Causes people to feel despair and I believe this should be included in the article. The word "despair" redirects to this article. 64.132.187.90 (talk) 23:03, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2016
Treatments- People who suffer from severe depression should receive psychotherapy in combination with antidepressants. Psychotherapy, also known as talk therapy, treats depression through a psychological means. Psychotherapies such as Cognitive Behavioral therapy and Interpersonal therapy teaches people better coping mechanisms, better communication, and changes in negative thinking Patterns (Butcher 2013). Psychotherapy only works as well as the patient allows it to work. People with severe depression experience sadness, hopelessness, and a lack of motivation making psychotherapy less effective alone. Antidepressants such as Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors and Tricyclic antidepressants balance out chemicals within the brain that can relieve these symptoms, making the combination much more effective in treating people with severe depression.

Dmurph94 (talk) 14:55, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Article is about the mood, not "clinical depression". And, the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". ChamithN   (talk)  15:08, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 April 2016
Dear Friend,

After many years, I have finally gathered the courage to post my scientific theory of depression on wikipedia, so I can help humanity free of charge. I recognize my findings may not be popular with anyone who has an invested interest in making money from depressed people, since they can heal themselves of it, and I empower them with this information in my post. I would like you to post it for me, since I cannot myself. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Wendy Treynor, Ph.D. (Social Psychology, University of Michigan, 2004)

EXPLANATION OF DEPRESSION

According to social psychologist Wendy Treynor, depression happens when one is trapped in a social setting that rejects the self, on a long-term basis (where one is devalued continually), and this rejection is internalized into self-rejection, winning one rejection from both the self and group— social rejection and self-rejection, respectively. This chronic conflict seems inescapable, and depression sets in. Stated differently, according to Treynor, the cause of depression is as follows: One's state of harmony is disrupted when faced with external conflict (social rejection) for failing to measure up to a group’s standard(s). Over time, this social rejection is internalized into self-rejection, where one experiences rejection from both the group and the self. Therefore, the rejection seems inescapable and depression sets in. In this framework, depression is conceptualized as being the result of long-term conflict (internal and external), where this conflict corresponds to self-rejection and social rejection, respectively, or the dual needs for self-esteem (self-acceptance) and belonging (social acceptance) being unmet, on a long-term basis. The solution to depression offered, therefore, is to end the conflict (get these needs met): Navigate oneself into an unconditionally accepting social environment, so one can internalize this social acceptance into self-acceptance, winning one peace both internally and externally (through self-acceptance and social acceptance—self-esteem and belonging, respectively), ending the conflict, and the depression. (Treynor obtained this result and framework by piecing together social psychological science research findings using mathematical logic.) But what if one cannot find an unconditionally accepting group to navigate oneself into? If one cannot find such a group, the solution the framework offers is to make the context in which one generally finds oneself the self (however, the self must be in meditative solitude—alone and at peace, not lonely and ruminating—as stated, a state commonly achieved through the practice of meditation). The framework suggests that a lack of self-acceptance lies at the root of depression and that one can heal their own depression if they (a) keep an alert eye to their own emotional state (i.e., identify feelings of shame or depression) and (b) upon identification, take reparative action: undergo a context shift and immerse oneself in a new group that is unconditionally accepting (accepts the self, as it is)—whether that group is one that exists apart from the self or simply is the self [in meditative solitude]. Over time, the unconditional acceptance experienced in this setting will be internalized, allowing one to achieve self-acceptance, eradicating conflict, eliminating one’s depression.

Wtreynor (talk) 03:24, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: This is not a forum for discussion depression in general. No request was made.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please &#123;&#123;re&#125;&#125; 19:13, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Added Lancet meta-analysis
Hello all, I've added the recent major finding of the Lancet meta-analysis. Essentially, it found that most antidepressants are not efficacious for treatment of acute depression in children and adolescents. Feel free to make any edits to it! Ongmianli (talk) 23:01, 10 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Isn't acute depression handled in the article Major depressive disorder? The title of this article being Depression (mood) is misleading. I personally think that "Sadness" would be more appropriate. To tell the truth, I'm confused about all the cross-over information between the two depression articles. Yours, Wordreader (talk) 03:43, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Depression vs depression.
I just looked at this page on the UK's National Health Service's website. "MOODZONE: Low mood and depression" - http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/Pages/low-mood-and-depression.aspx It clearly explains the difference between the two concepts. There are a few suggestions for help with both types of depression as well as an audio presentation. Perhaps it will help new writers to this article. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 03:37, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2017
i have citations for this part of the wiki "However, women have higher rates of suicide ideation and attempts.[citation needed]"     Beaniebby (talk) 12:00, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: Removed the citation tag, added only two citations to avoid citation clutter. regards,  DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  05:14, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Possible additions related to epidemiology/race
Alang, S. M. (2016). 'Black folk don't get no severe depression': Meanings and expressions of depression in a predominantly black urban neighborhood in Midwestern United States. Social Science & Medicine, 157, 1-8. doi:10.1016/j.socscimed.2016.03.032

Ayalon, L., & Young, M. A. (2003). A comparison of depressive symptoms in African Americans and Caucasian Americans. Journal Of Cross-Cultural Psychology, 34(1), 111-124. doi:10.1177/0022022102239158

Chae, D. H., Lee, S., Lincoln, K. D., & Ihara, E. S. (2012). Discrimination, family relationships, and major depression among Asian Americans. Journal Of Immigrant And Minority Health, 14(3), 361-370. doi:10.1007/s10903-011-9548-4

Gee, C. B. (2004). Assessment of Anxiety and Depression in Asian American Youth. Journal Of Clinical Child And Adolescent Psychology, 33(2), 269-271. doi:10.1207/s15374424jccp3302_7

Hankerson, S. H., Lee, Y. A., Brawley, D. K., Braswell, K., Wickramaratne, P. J., & Weissman, M. M. (2015). Screening for depression in African-American churches. American Journal Of Preventive Medicine, 49(4), 526-533. doi:10.1016/j.amepre.2015.03.039

Hankerson, S. H., Watson, K. T., Lukachko, A., Fullilove, M. T., & Weissman, M. (2013). Ministers’ Perceptions of Church-Based Programs to Provide Depression Care for African Americans. Journal of Urban Health : Bulletin of the New York Academy of Medicine, 90(4), 685–698. http://doi.org/10.1007/s11524-013-9794-y

Kalibatseva, Z., & Leong, F. (2011). Depression among Asian Americans: Review and recommendations. Depression Research and Treatment, 2011, 1-9. doi:10.1155/2011/320902

Kim, S. Y., Gonzales, N. A., Stroh, K., & Wang, J. J. (2006). Parent-child cultural marginalization and depressive symptoms in Asian American family members. Journal of Community Psychology, 34(2), 167-182. doi:10.1002/jcop

Lindsey, M. A., Brown, D. R., & Cunningham, M. (2017). Boys do(n’t) cry: Addressing the unmet mental health needs of African American boys. American Journal Of Orthopsychiatry, 87(4), 377-383. doi:10.1037/ort0000198

Scott, S. M., Wallander, J. L., & Cameron, L. (2015). Protective mechanisms for depression among racial/ethnic minority youth: Empirical findings, issues, and recommendations. Clinical Child And Family Psychology Review, 18(4), 346-369. doi:10.1007/s10567-015-0188-4 — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnnHuynh (talk • contribs) 04:41, 31 July 2017 (UTC)


 * AnnHuynh, I appreciate you helping out with matters at this article, such as this. But do keep WP:MEDRS in mind. For example, per WP:MEDRS, using primary sources for health content is strongly discouraged. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 12:19, 13 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Noted. I am working on this section as a part of a master's level psychology course & have a psychologist who is overseeing my work and has reviewed the articles.AnnHuynh (talk) 22:45, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
 * If you come across review articles or similar WP:MEDRS sources, be sure to bring them up. --Ronz (talk) 23:26, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Got it! Thanks. I just added a lot of information about Asian Americans. It ended up being longer than I anticipated, so please feel free to edit & make it more concise. I will do so too. AnnHuynh (talk) 01:14, 16 August 2017 (UTC)


 * AnnHuynh, regarding this, did you read WP:MEDRS? Remember what I stated about primary sources? Also, peer review is not the same as literature review.


 * Beyond sourcing, you should stay away from wording like "it is important to note." We don't tell readers what is important. By this, I mean that we don't talk to readers. See MOS:PERSON and MOS:YOU for what I mean.


 * You also added commentary from a non-notable epidemiologist, noting her personal issues with depression or other disorders. I don't think that this is encyclopedic.


 * I'll see if WP:Med has any views on your big addition. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:08, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * agree w/ everything Flyer22 Reborn has indicated above--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 00:33, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Also see what Jytdog stated below: Depressive mood vs. major depressive disorder. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:01, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

epidemiology section
not sure how this happened. All this content is confused with respect to mood (the topic of this article) vs the disorder (the topic of another article: Major depressive disorder) -- this confusion is a source of constant trouble on this page about which there is a BIG NOTE IN BOLD at the top of this talk page -- and the sourcing fails MEDRS all over the place.


 * Epidemiology

About a quarter of medical students have depressive symptoms.


 * Racial issue

Research has shown that African Americans define, express, and experience depression in distinct ways. African Americans have described depression as feeling "stuck", "down", "unable to move", and hopeless. In Sirry Alang's 12-month study of a predominantly Black neighborhood in the Midwestern US, African Americans reported that individuals in their community, including themselves, expressed depression through anger, aggression, and excessive socialization with friends and family in order to deny or hide feelings of depression. In addition, African Americans report somatic symptoms, such as pain or numbness throughout the body. A 2003 study of individuals seeking psychotherapy found that in comparison to Caucasian Americans, African Americans experience more insomnia, decreased sex drive, and decreased appetite as the severity of their depression increases. Researchers note that these expressions of depression differ from the commonly used DSM-V criteria used to diagnose individuals with major depressive disorder.
 * African Americans

Studies show that African Americans see depression as a sign of weakness. In particular, African American men deny and suppress depressive symptoms due to the stigma of mental health problems and cultural expectations that men should hide their emotions. Parents may not acknowledge their children's depression because they mistake the symptoms for something else, they doubt treatment will help, and/or they fear being at fault for their children's depression.

Research has shown a correlation between depression and financial hardships in African American communities. Interpersonal conflicts, such as family issues, are also commonly cited causes of depression. In a study in New York, ministers of predominantly African American churches attributed depression to the stress of institutional racism and other stressors related to being African American in the US.

For African American adolescents, maternal support has been shown to be a protective factor against depression. Some studies suggest that employment, non-sport extracurricular activities, familism, predominantly minority schools, inductive parenting, social activities, and teacher relationships protect against depression. Religiosity has not been shown to protect against depression for African American adolescents. However, research suggests that African American adults tend to seek support from ministers or priests and that church-based depression services may be a feasible way to support individuals with depression.

There is inconsistent data about the prevalence of depression among Asian Americans. Several studies suggest that Asian Americans experience depression at higher rates compared to other ethnic groups,    while others posit that the rates are lower or comparable to other groups. The true prevalence of depression is difficult to measure because of the lack of comprehensive studies and the large variety of ethnic groups within the Asian American population. Overall, Asian Americans underutilize mental health services. Asian Americans may not seek mental health services due to the lack of culturally competent mental health professionals. In addition, the desire to "save face" to avoid bring shame on one's family or self may prevent Asian Americans from getting help.
 * Asian Americans

Asian Americans who experience depression commonly report physical or somatic symptoms such as appetite changes, headaches, sleep problems, and fatigue. Although research tends to emphasize how Asian Americans report bodily complaints, Asian Americans also report experiencing depressive moods and feelings, such as sadness.

It is important to note that commonly used tools to diagnose depression in the US may not be able to detect depression in Asian Americans, due to differences in the ways depression may be expressed. For example, in Western cultures, depression may be defined as feeling helpless. In contrast, Eastern Asian cultures that value "selfless subordination" may not associate helplessness with depression.

In the Asian American Literary Review's DSM: Asian American Edition, Aileen Alfonso Duldulao, an epidemiologist who has been diagnosed with major depressive disorder along with other mental health disorders says, "Yet I would have never characterized what I have experienced using DSM-V derived symptomatic descriptions or ICD-10 diagnostic criteria. I've experienced highs and lows, and marveled at the depth of my own sadness from what seems like afar. I've cried incessantly for losses so deep that a language of loss no longer exists."

Asian culture may influence how individuals define depression. For example, Vietnamese Americans may experience some depressive symptoms that cannot be translated into English. Similarly, a study of Asian Indian Americans suggests that that older Asians who only speak one language are more likely to present depression in ways that match how it is expressed in their homeland. In Chinese culture, shenjing shuairo, or neurasthenia, is defined as a weakness of the nerves and mental and/or physical fatigue. Culture-bound syndromes such as shenjing shuairo have been shown to have some overlap with definitions of depression in the DSM and ICD, which are commonly used to detect depression. Researchers have found that 40% to 90% of patients diagnosed with neurasthenia met the criteria for depression and showed improvement after taking antidepressant medications.

Researchers have found that depressed Asian Americans are more likely to report having negative relationships with family members and being unable to talk to family members about their problems or worries. In particular, Asian American high school students dealing with depression report that their parents do not show much interest their feelings and ideas. Several studies have also shown that depressed Asian American adolescents and young adults tend to experience conflicts with their immigrant parents, arising from differences in how they adapt to culture in the US. Family disharmony may occur when Asian American children integrate into the mainstream culture, while their parents hold onto their own ethnic culture, values, and language.

Asian Americans experiencing depression may feel like they are not accepted in the U.S. In a study of Asian Americans with major depression, 21% reported experiencing high levels of racial discrimination and 43% reported moderate levels of racial discrimination. Furthermore, Asian American adolescents who identify more with their ethnic culture and less with American culture have higher levels of depression than adolescents who identify more with American culture. However, a different study shows that depressed Asian Americans who are integrated in American culture may feel like outsiders in both the Asian community and Asian American community because they feel like they cannot fully identify with either culture. On the other hand, parents experiencing depression are more likely to feel separated from the Asian American and Anglo communities. These different findings may point to how Asian Americans' depression is linked to their sense of belonging in groups overall.

There are some culturally specific resources for Asian Americans dealing with depression. The Asian LifeNet Hotline, which can be reached at 1-877-990-8585, is a 24-hour hotline with crisis counselors who can speak different over 140 languages including Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean, and Fujianese. In Boston, the Asian Women's Action for Resilience and Empowerment (AWARE) project provides culturally sensitive group psychotherapy for Asian American women. The group helps participants learn how to cope with depression and recognize that they are not alone.

Women experience a higher rate of major depression than men. While women are much more likely to express somatic symptoms of both distress and depression than men, such as loss of or an increase in appetite, sleep disturbances and fatigue accompanied by pain and anxiety, the gender difference expressed is much smaller in other aspects of depression. Instances of suicide in men is much greater than in women. In a report by Lund University in Sweden and Stanford University, it was shown that men commit suicide at a rate almost three times that of women in Sweden, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and National Center for Injury Prevention and Control report that the rate in the US is almost four times as many males as females. However, women have higher rates of suicide ideation and attempts. The difference is attributed to men choosing more effective methods resulting in the higher rate of success. This research would suggest that women are more likely to discuss their depression issues, whereas men are more likely to try and hide them. The culture of women being more free to express psychological and emotional feelings than men could also be a contributing factor to this phenomenon.
 * Sex differences

-- Jytdog (talk) 00:30, 19 August 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree that the cited sources are not all the best that we can do, and there are some complications with respect to which article to put most of this in, and even whether so much emphasis should be put on Americans (and the way that it's written, which tends to assume that the middle-class white-American experience is the "normal" one that all others diverge from, despite the vast majority of humans not falling into that category).
 * However, I'm under the impression that the general concept – i.e., that different cultures express this situation differently – falls firmly in the category of "widely accepted knowledge", and it ought to be mentioned at least in passing here. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:17, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The reason this information was added here, and not the MDD page, is because these studies describe how depressive symptoms vary amongst different racial groups. The participants in most of the studies were not diagnosed with MDD, but had notable depressive symptoms (i.e. depressed mood).
 * It is not stating that the middle class white American experience is the "normal" one, but that it is the dominant one and that other racial groups experience depression in ways that are not captured by the dominant understanding.
 * The state of the article before this section was added already operated on that presumption, as it emphasized things like the DSM. Simply mentioning that different cultures express depression differently would completely erase the nuances of how specific groups define/experience depressed mood. AnnHuynh (talk) 22:32, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * When we say present the middle-class white American experience as the reference point, then we're saying that this particular 2% or 3% of the world is the standard one, and (for example) the 20% of the world that lives in East Asia is differs from "standard" in this or that respect.
 * This is a hard problem for the English Wikipedia, because the DSM and most other highly regarded sources on the subject were basically written by people from that 2%. I can't offer a clean solution.  If I were imagining an ideal source, it might be a review article or book published by a university press that did a explicit compare-and-contrast analysis of the dominant definitions.  Then we could stop saying "Depressed mood is when " and replace it with "Depressed mood is an unpleasant emotion that is experienced and expressed in a variety of ways, depending upon your culture.  Chinese people express it this way, and South Asian people that way, and white Americans this other way..."
 * I do support including this idea in some form, and I think that it may belong in more than one article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:39, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Gender identity and sexuality
@User:Jytdog. I reverted to keep this section here for now until it can be resolved as to what to do with it. It does seem that the sources are discussing depression in terms of the "disorder". However other paragraphs in the 'factors' section often don't strictly refer to depressive mood but simply "depression". Perhaps gender identity and sexuality may be better suited to the page - Major depressive disorder. However I'm yet to see a good way of integrating it into that page. It seems most suited to a 'factors' section, so I think it should be kept here at least temporarily (unless a 'factors' section was perhaps created on Mdd), although I see a confliction, as I think quite a bit of the section under 'factors' doesn't strictly refer to the mood depression and that perhaps other parts of the 'factors' section could be moved to the Mdd page too. Helper201 (talk) 09:32, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * OK. I replaced the primary sources with a MEDRS one. Jytdog (talk) 16:18, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Peer Review
The article was able to articulate the topic depression with excellent examples and understandable definition. For example, the first sentence of the page, "Depression is a state of low mood and aversion to activity that can affect a person's thoughts, behavior, feelings, and sense of well-being" worded comprehensibly, concisely for someone who just started with the topic depression. Therefore, it made me want to read more about it. In addition, adding explanations or examples with parenthesis made the article smoother to comprehend since I did not know anything about depression. However, some sections can elaborate more information such as the section of gender identity and sexuality, personality, and more. Overall, the article gave good insights what depression is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sou618 (talk • contribs) 23:41, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

"Situational depression"
I have heard this term used about the affliction discussed in this article. (You get fired from work and become depressed, for example.) If the term is widely used, (and it gets a bunch of decent-looking hits when Googled), it should work its way into this article somehow. In fact, "Situational depression" has a redirect to Adjustment disorder. I'm reluctant to get involved with editing this stuff, since the medical guys have rules and procedures that I'm not familiar with. Lou Sander (talk) 09:59, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Faith
In a small book ‘Words of Encouragement’ the Rev Considine says of depression. “Avoid every tendency to sadness and depression. It is death to your soul”. The use of medicines for the body are then against faith. The article mentions antipsychotics. Also antidepressants where it says ‘not routinely’. - That is sometimes. Without wishing to go against the notice in the discussion list. -The fact that something might continue for more than two weeks does not change its whole nature. Peterms64 (talk) 16:31, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Listen peeps
The infobox should be changed, not this ugly sketch of man — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.196.203.117 (talk) 01:00, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 May 2020
Same Depression pdf file which is a dead link now is available to download in a working link, I would like to give the users quality in the content and experience.

https://clinicakahlo.mx/recursos/Depression.pdf Icantu (talk) 19:23, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. I don't understand which link in the article you would like to be replaced. GoingBatty (talk) 23:35, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Link addition of my site
Can I publish my depression article to this page? Skybahuguna (talk) 15:54, 7 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Probably not - see the external link guidelines. Personal sites and blogs are almost never linked. - MrOllie (talk) 15:56, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2021
hello I just wanted to add a bit more history about depression. Jasmine-183 (talk) 03:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  EN  - Jungwon  07:23, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2021
XxLacey.RobinsonxX (talk) 05:04, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Hereditary Disease? If someone has a family history of depression, are they at very high risk? If someone has a parent or sibling with major depression, that person probably has a 2 or 3 times greater risk of developing depression compared with the average person (or around 20-30% instead of 10%). many common disorders like depression, diabetes and high blood pressure are also influenced by genes. In these disorders, there seem to be combinations of genetic changes that predispose some people to become ill. What about major depression and anxiety disorders? There are probably genetic changes that can increase the predisposition to both major depression and to certain anxiety disorders including generalized anxiety disorder, panic disorder and social phobia. Also, some people have a more general lifelong tendency to experience unpleasant emotions and anxiety in response to stress. Psychologists use terms like “neuroticism” and “negative affectivity” to refer to this tendency, and people who have it are also more likely to experience major depression.

1. Tsuang MT, Taylor L, Faraone SV. An overview of the genetics of psychotic mood disorders. J Psychiatr Res. 2004;38:3–15. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. –Fredddie™ 05:17, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Note also that this is an article about depression as an emotion, if you have specific changes you want made it would probably be better to request them over at Major depressive disorder. &#8209;&#8209;Volteer1 (talk) 05:19, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Creative thinking Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2021
Many people believe that those who deal with mood disorders are more creative than most. In fact, there is little to no evidence supporting the notion that having a mood disorder will affect your creativity. After a study did It's been shown that there is no significant difference in those creative abilities. A person suffering from a mood disorder may have trouble expressing themselves or may use a form of art as an outlet or reflection. However, there’s no evidence proving that depressed people are more creative.

That is an interesting point. While I would say that most evidence points to the opposite happening in people that are depressed, after reading the source given in the article, it does appear that at least one study agrees with this point. I would expect more sources to be present in this section, though.Mattcromer20 (talk) 00:41, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Request to add racism, homophobia and sexism to "Live Events" list of causes of depression
I think the fact that being on the receiving end of racism, homophobia or sexism is a not only contributor to depression, but depending on the society or cultural norms, can be a persistent drag on mental health of the individual. All three or similar references should be referenced. I'd like motion to add "homophobia", "racism" and "sexism" to the list. Thank you. Hewston Astro (talk), 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Do you have a medical source for these claims?--Megaman en m (talk) 12:05, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Blah Blah Blah. RACISM! I'm a victim! piper is depperised Etc. Maybe just add this to every. single. wiki. page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:603:4A80:5870:BDE6:D66:788C:41F (talk) 18:47, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Maybe it could just mention "discrimination for one's trait" instead of having to mention all of the types of discrimination that are in. The way you formulate it could be wrongly concluded by those who never process thoughts, in something similar to "well, it didn't say that depression would occur because he's 9 years old, it only appeared if he was gay so I'm not giving him depression by punching him I'm just making him stronger, I wouldn't punch him if he was gay but I do because he's 9 years old and weak, I'm definetly the father of the year.". You need to remember that discrimination covers every type of trait you mentioned and more, all in just one word. Racism is discrimination based on race, sexism is discrimination based on sex, homophobia is discrimination based on a particular sexuality, just add "discrimination for one's trait" and we cover everything. --FranSauce8 (talk) 18:57, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Change "positive" to something that makes the reader feel it confirms, not that it has a positive effect.
In the section of bullying, the last sentence in the first paragraph mentions "The result concluded that being exposed daily to abusive behaviors such as bullying has a positive relationship to depressed mood on the same day.". The statement is true, but it can make people conclude that it's benevolent to be bullied because of the word "positive". I just feel the word needs to be changed to something that confirms the subject without the word being directly related to good things. maybe instead of "has a positive relationship to" it could just be "confirms to have a direct relation with".

Altough this might be more in a subject of opinion, I just feel it would be better to not use the word positive, because "be positive" comes to mind and these are two conflicting topics.

--FranSauce8 (talk) 19:04, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

By all means change it to something better.Transient-understanding (talk) 06:39, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2021
The last sentence of the "Management" chapter (the one that begins "Problem-focused coping leads to...") should have a [citation needed] added, as it is currently unsubstantiated. 84.238.24.126 (talk) 23:44, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:01, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * As mentioned before, the last portion of the management section on "problem-focused coping" continues to have no citation and appears to be unsubstantiated. If a citation was added, it is no longer there. Finbct (talk) 13:34, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Re: Main Picture
To reduce against the stigma of depression and mental health, maybe we can use a more recent photo. The current photo is from the 1890’s. Any thoughts? AjayTO (talk) 05:34, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Depression
Could there be ways to overcome depression without necessarily taking drugs? Kunmzio (talk) 14:09, 20 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Yes. Check out Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. Some lifestyle changes are known to help as well. Cognitive behavioural therapy Lofenyy (talk) 08:32, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Personality factors
The last sentence of the personality factors section is completely unrelated to personality and doesn't belong there. All other aspects of the section are correct. Lofenyy (talk) 08:29, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks Lofenyy. I have deleted it. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 09:01, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Structure
The structure of the article could be improved. "Medical treatment" as a "factor" is confusing, both in terms of the title and content. Perhaps it should be renamed "medical side-effects," or something like that, and the sentence on Therapies, which clearly does not belong under this topic, should be integrated with the content on "management."

Regarding "management," perhaps the topic should be designated as topic no 2 or 3, as this is most probably a high priority for many depressed people who may visit this entry prior to reading up on "major depression." Kim99 (talk) 18 February 2023 (UTC)


 * All good points, Kim99 I've changed the sub-heading from "Medical treatment" to "Side effect of medical treatment". I agree Management could be closer to the top. I'm going through the article removing unsourced and poorly-sourced text and text that is irrelevant or that misrepresents a source at the moment. I'm wary of raising "Management" to higher prominence until I've had time to compare that section with the article Management of depression. Our section looks incomplete at first glance. I'll get round to article structure eventually. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 09:15, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

median age of depression and history
In this paragraph of the Wikipedia article:

Depression is a mental state of low mood and aversion to activity. It affects more than 280 million people of all ages (about 3.5% of the global population). Depression affects a person's thoughts, behavior, feelings, and sense of well-being.

I would like to edit it to this:

Depression is a mental state of low mood and aversion to activity.[3] It affects more than 280 million people of all ages (about 3.5% of the global population).[4]According to studies, the median age of onset for depression is 32.5 years old.(https://adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/depression/facts-statistics ) Depression affects a person's thoughts, behavior, feelings, and sense of well-being

In this part of the Wikipedia article:

History

In Ancient Greece, disease was thought due to an imbalance in the four basic bodily fluids, or humors. Personality types were similarly thought to be determined by the dominant humor in a particular person. Derived from the Ancient Greek melas, "black", and kholé, "bile", melancholia was described as a distinct disease with particular mental and physical symptoms by Hippocrates in his Aphorisms, where he characterized all "fears and despondencies, if they last a long time" as being symptomatic of the ailment.

I would like to edit it to this:

In Ancient Greece, disease was thought due to an imbalance in the four basic bodily fluids, or humors. Personality types were similarly thought to be determined by the dominant humor in a particular person. Derived from the Ancient Greek melas, "black", and kholé, "bile",[48] melancholia was described as a distinct disease with particular mental and physical symptoms by Hippocrates in his Aphorisms, where he characterized all "fears and despondencies, if they last a long time" as being symptomatic of the ailment. '''Depression has been diagnosed, treated, and studied for thousands of years, with the earliest recorded instance of the disease dating back to second century B.C. Mesopotamia. ('''https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0141076813486262)

Aspect1010 (talk) 13:39, 7 May 2023 (UTC)