Talk:Descendants of Ali ibn Abi Talib

Anon
An anon added a list of Ali's sons to Ali ibn Abi Talib. The list was intrusive, but rather than delete it, I moved it to a new article. I know we have articles on sharifs and sayyids, but we don't really have any detailed genealogies. Perhaps I should having titled this Genealogy of the descendents of Ali ibn Abi Talib? If other editors think that's better, the article could be moved. In any case, I'd like to leave it up to others to fill this article out. We need birth and death dates for every child of Ali, also names, birth and death dates for his various wives. Probably be good to note marriages of every child surviving to marriagable age, descendents if any. Dunno how far down we want to go with descendents, but covering all the grandchildren would seem to be useful. Zora 14:10, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well d'oh!
I would have said that I was very good at spelling, but clearly I have a problem with descendents/descendants. Thanks for fixing it, Mustafaa. (In other news, I've got my Ibn Ishaq out, am plowing through the index.) Zora 23:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Pious Shi'a hands at work
I reformatted the article; I hope it's more readable now. I changed "martyred" to "killed", made it clear that only the Shi'a believe in Al Muhsin, and moved the Hashemites under Hassan, rather than Abbas. I wasn't aware that the Shi'a, or some Shi'a, dispute the Hashemite claim to descend from Hassan. Zora 18:44, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

There are loads of Hashmites in the sub-continent that claim to be desendants of Abbas. Infact the main view in the sub-continent is that Hasmites are decendants of the great-grandfather of Prophet Muhammad (Hashim) through Ali's son Abbas. Therefore im adding Hasmites to Abbas aswell. --Khalid! 12:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Ruqayya??
Zora: thank you for your clean-up of this article: it was much needed and a definite improvement! ..I got into this editing because of the The Sayyida Ruqayya Mosque (in the old town of Damascus, Syria) which is dedicated to the daughter of Husayn (or Hussein). She is supposedly buried there (it is a mausoleum also) and the place is a very, very popular place for Shi'a muslims, particularely from Iran. (The mosque itself is built with Iranian money and in Iranian style (=colorful blue tiles etc)...-quite different from the rest of Damascus/Syria. After a quick "google" I found eg.: http://www.waxvisual.com/wvsyt/sypcdcv04.htm. My question then is: in this page about decendants: 2 daughters of Hussein are mentioned: Sakina and Fatima Sughra. Is Ruqayya missing?? Or is Ruqayya another name for Sakina or Fatima Sughra? (Personally: I have absolutely no idea!)  But anyway, I think we perhaps should provide (external) link to the mosque (hmm, actually I think I´ll do that at once ..from Husseins page.) Anyway, I hope somebody can help getting this sorted out. Thanks. Regards, Huldra 00:01, 3 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I haven't done any determined googling on the descendents -- I suspect that I would find little in English, and I can't read Arabic. There is an appendix on the marriages of Hassan in Madelung's book, The Succession to Muhammad, and I'll transfer that info when I have time. What's in the article now has been contributed by a number of anons, and I couldn't really vouch for its accuracy. It would be wonderful if others could help make sure that this article was OK. Zora 04:41, 3 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Sorry, this is bit outside my line of interest/knowledge (and I do not have the Madelung book easely at hand -> not in any library in my town -and I don´t read Arabic either). I just wanted to add the info. about the Sayyida Ruqayya Mosque. I suspect there will be some inf. about her (=Ruqayya) in Parsi (?), perhaps one should "solicit" contributers over at the Iran-article? The Mosque is quite new (post-Shah, I think) -I suspect there must be a (interesting?) story behind its building -and its very, very popular with women, lots and lots of Iranian women visit Damascus in order to visit this Mosque. Quite facinating, really. Regards, Huldra 08:35, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Hussein, Hussain, Husayn
When I encountered this article there were two "Hussein" and one "Hussain", so I changed the latter to the former for consistency. However, it seems that most pages pages use Husayn, so I was wondering if anyone thinks it should be changed? Britannica uses, "al-Husayn ibn 'Ali" and, for some reason se you bin Ali, yet it's Ali ibn Abu Talib. Which makes for the amusing situation of the page being titled "Husayn bin Ali" but his name being given as "Husayn ibn Ali ibn Abu Talib". In any case, I know there is no real momentum for standardization like this but I just wanted thoughts. gren グレン 00:29, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Fatima Kubra? who was
Hi.. can anyone tell me that Fatima Kubra was the daughter of Hasan bin Ali or Hussain bin Ali.. i have actually read up a lot of different accounts ,some say she was the daughter of Hasan bin Ali, some say Fatima Sughra was same as Fatima Kubra and some even say that she was the daughter of Hasan bin Ali and married to Ali bin Hussain (zain al abideen), the 4th shia imam and she was the mother of 5th shia Imam baqir. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.186.11.187 (talk) 12:38, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * As I understand it Husayn at the time of his death had three daughters named Fatimah, distinguished by adjectives. The eldest and youngest had nicknames Sakina and Sukayna, again two forms of the same root.  I haven't gotten them into the article because I haven't worked out who their respective mothers were. J S Ayer (talk) 02:50, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * These people drive me nuts by re-using the same names in the same family. "Fatimah Kubra" is apparently "Big Fatimah" and "Fatimah Sughra" must mean smaller or something like that.  Hasan may well also have had a Fatimah Kubra.  I have read that Zainab bore two daughters named Umm Kulthum, but have no more details; perhaps one died young. J S Ayer (talk) 13:09, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

A Family Tree setup would be kinda nice on some of these — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ieashu (talk • contribs) 19:24, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Royal families
Royal families such as "King" Abdullah are not descendants of the Prophet. This is rubbish and cannot be objectively proven, no matter what. People claiming to be from his family line are just lying out of their ass to tell you the truth. Histories of family trees were not kept, in fact Arabs were not very good at keeping history just like their neighbors the Persians. People claiming these ancestries have manipulated documents over the years in order to serve their ideological interests. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.97.19 (talk) 15:55, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Aga Khan genealogy
Perhaps the line of descent from Ali to Aga Khan should be moved to Aga Khan or Ismailis or Nizaris? J S Ayer (talk) 21:41, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Umamah
We have an article on Umamah bint Zainab, or Umamah bint Abu'l-'As, a granddaughter of Muhammad and Khadijah. It seems that after the death of Fatimah, Ali married this niece, who bore him a son, Hilal. The article on Hilal says that he also had a brother, Aun, who isn't mentioned in the article on their mother. The only source that I have found is a website that is Persian, Shi'ite, and pious. I object to none of these qualities, but verification is difficult. As usual, expert or even superior (to mine) knowledge would be very welcome. J S Ayer (talk) 02:40, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Fatimah or Fatima
The article has both spellings intermingled. The Wikipedia article is at Fatimah. This is way outside my area of knowledge and there might be a reason for it, so I didn't want to make the corrections myself. If someone who has the background could fix it, the article would be better. Thank you. SchreiberBike (talk) 00:57, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

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Son and grand son
Does he have son Muhasan and grandson Muhammad Hanafia?--Kaiyr (talk) 07:57, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Page views
Leo1pard (talk) 17:28, 6 February 2018 (UTC)